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  #21  
Old 10-28-2005, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by seto
The press I believe is the only one doing any comparing of camilla and Diana. I hope they enjoy their visit. I think people will want to meet camilla she is a royal and those that are into the royal family will enjoy the visit.
Not all Royal watchers will be running to see them. They will be only 35 miles from where I live and I most certainly am not going.
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  #22  
Old 10-28-2005, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tiaraprin
Not all Royal watchers will be running to see them. They will be only 35 miles from where I live and I most certainly am not going.
Indeed, that seems to be a general view taken. I am posting a link to yesterday's Guardian...just copy and paste in your address box, it should work.

chttp://www.guardian.co.uk/monarchy/s...601322,00.html

The general feeling towards bringing the other woman, or other man, whom you married to dinner, is still not as socially acceptable in our society...no matter how much good she has done or happy they are. We are still quite prudish in this country in that respect.
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  #23  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
The general feeling towards bringing the other woman, or other man, whom you married to dinner, is still not as socially acceptable in our society...no matter how much good she has done or happy they are. We are still quite prudish in this country in that respect.
I would have to respectfully disagree, Lady Marmalade. While at family gatherings, Americans would be show some distaste and distance; for purely political or social gatherings, the other woman who married the man is not necessarily shunned in this country.

When Donald Trump ran off with Marla Maples, it was scandalous at first but they were received well pretty much anywhere they went afterwards. The only cases I know of where a married partner was shunned by society was during the breakup of Loni Anderson and Burt Reynolds and then the breakup between Mia Farrow and Woody Allen. But these men allegedly did a lost worse than the charges levied against Charles and Camilla. Burt was rumoured to have been physically violent with Loni and Woody ran off with his 17 year old foster daughter.

These are entirely more serious circumstances.
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  #24  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel
I would have to respectfully disagree, Lady Marmalade. While at family gatherings, Americans would be show some distaste and distance; for purely political or social gatherings, the other woman who married the man is not necessarily shunned in this country.

When Donald Trump ran off with Marla Maples, it was scandalous at first but they were received well pretty much anywhere they went afterwards. The only cases I know of where a married partner was shunned by society was during the breakup of Loni Anderson and Burt Reynolds and then the breakup between Mia Farrow and Woody Allen. But these men allegedly did a lost worse than the charges levied against Charles and Camilla. Burt was rumoured to have been physically violent with Loni and Woody ran off with his 17 year old foster daughter.

These are entirely more serious circumstances.



In america your first wife was your first and the next is accepted it is your choice to remarry. Of course in some cirles friends take sides but for the most part it really isn't a big deal.
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  #25  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:43 PM
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I think people will be respectful (hopefully) to Camilla, but she is still "the other women" in many eyes. It doesn't matter if they are married, there love story doesn't sound romantic to many americans, like it does in other countries.

I think that political gatherings are more accepting to "other women", than family gatherings....look at Bill Clinton. Although Monica has been beaten down by the media.

When Monica did the interview with Barbara Walters, Barbara said that after the interview she got more comments from views who were asking what Monica's lip gloss was!! You can interpret (sp?) that yourself, but I think many american's forgive rather quickly or just don't care.
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  #26  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:47 PM
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Re:

If people are shallow enough to create trouble over private matter that has nothing to do with them then their lives but be extremely empty - and to protest about such a trivial matter is ridiculous. We all have an opinion but creating a scene based on the fact that someone you don't know personally had an affair and got remarried is foolish on the part of those who do the shouting. Especially in America where the divorce rate is very high.
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  #27  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
If people are shallow enough to create trouble over private matter that has nothing to do with them then their lives but be extremely empty - and to protest about such a trivial matter is ridiculous. We all have an opinion but creating a scene based on the fact that someone you don't know personally had an affair and got remarried is foolish on the part of those who do the shouting. Especially in America where the divorce rate is very high.
Unfortunately, it is not a private matter, it is a matter that has rocked the British Monarchy and hence the people under Her Majesty's sovereignty and the Commonwealth. It is not a trivial matter in terms of the Monarchy. While the Monarchy must grow and adapt to its time, There were still certain ideas and traditions that had yet to be changed until the unfortunate collapse of the Wales' marriage. When Charles and Diana married, it was supposed to be forever no matter if they were miserable. All the circumstances of that marriage's collapse were extreme, brutal, and cruel to all involved. Charles & Camilla have gotten their cake and they are eating it while Diana never had the chance to live her life. William and Harry were motherless at young ages. Complaints are made that William is not a suitable heir, and Harry has done drugs and parties a great deal. Perhaps without the guidance of a loving mother and the absence of a father who is off on the royal rounds may account for these "lacks" in William's and Harry's characters. It surely affected Charles. His relationship with his parents (especially his father) are not good, he married Diana under duress and that was an unmitigated disaster. He couldn't find a wife he could tolerate until his first one died tragically and his mistress divorced her first husband. It is a disgrace.

While the divorce rate is high in my country, there are some of us who do take marriage seriously. While I am not a staunch anti-divorce person, I still think one must make every possible effort to save a marriage until there is no option left but divorce.
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  #28  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:18 PM
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Re:

I don't see that it did rock the British Monarch but if it did then it rocked the BRITISH monarch - not the American. Charles and Camilla certainly do not need the approval of the yanks - they have the British seal of approval from everyone who matters and that is all that matters.

Divorce isn't a huge issue. Anne, Andrew, Charles, Henry VIII - they've all divorced and the Monarchy's still here isn't it? And to suggest that Charles should have stayed manicled to Diana even though he was unhappy is as impractical as it is cruel.

Diana did have a chance to live her life but is this the topic for a Diana/Charles/Camilla argument? I'll gladly enter into one through PM providing it doesn't get personal.

I don't think it's really a disgrace at all. It sounds to be a bit of an over-reaction. Let's get this into perspective. They married. They divorced. She died. He remarried. It happens every day.
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  #29  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I don't see that it did rock the British Monarch but if it did then it rocked the BRITISH monarch - not the American. Charles and Camilla certainly do not need the approval of the yanks - they have the British seal of approval from everyone who matters and that is all that matters.

Divorce isn't a huge issue. Anne, Andrew, Charles, Henry VIII - they've all divorced and the Monarchy's still here isn't it? And to suggest that Charles should have stayed manicled to Diana even though he was unhappy is as impractical as it is cruel.

Diana did have a chance to live her life but is this the topic for a Diana/Charles/Camilla argument? I'll gladly enter into one through PM providing it doesn't get personal.

I don't think it's really a disgrace at all. It sounds to be a bit of an over-reaction. Let's get this into perspective. They married. They divorced. She died. He remarried. It happens every day.
If Princess Margaret hadn't divorced in 1978, we would not have seen the divorces Her Majesty's children today.

It wasn't as trivial as you believe when Anne and Andrew divorced. The foundations of the Monarchy were shaking in 1991-1992. Anne and her husband were both having affairs. Andrew couldn't stop the courtiers from constantly bashing Sarah until she completely lost it. Charles and Diana were beyond hope. Then Sarah became the scapegoat for all of the monarchy's difficulties instead of equalizing the blame on to all who were responsible. While Sarah did wrong, she was not the only one. The courtiers should also take their fair share of the blame in playing God amongst the royals deciding who they like and don't like.


Constantly the fact that I am a "Yank" and not a "Brit" is bandied about. I may not be British, but I can see what is going on. Also contrary to what is being reported here, not all Brits accept Charles and Camilla. Most actually are apathetic which is even worse than hatred. If the British become apathetic to its monarchy, then it will not survive.
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  #30  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:31 PM
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Re:

So? 1 in 3 marriages now breaks down. The Queen had four children and 3 ended in divorce. It's no big issue it really isn't. They got divorced and 2 of them got remarried to the people they were having affairs with. Is that so wrong? It's the people who have this fairytale expectation of Royalty that consider it to be the fall of the House of Windsor. Those who live in the real world see it slightly different.
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  #31  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
So? 1 in 3 marriages now breaks down. The Queen had four children and 3 ended in divorce. It's no big issue it really isn't. They got divorced and 2 of them got remarried to the people they were having affairs with. Is that so wrong? It's the people who have this fairytale expectation of Royalty that consider it to be the fall of the House of Windsor. Those who live in the real world see it slightly different.
It still does not make it right and that is the fact that gets lost here. As we say here in my country, "Two wrongs don't make a right."
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  #32  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:36 PM
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It still does not make it right and that is the fact that gets lost here. As we say here in my country, "Two wrongs don't make a right."
We have that saying here but we tend to go on personal feelings rather than old wives sayings. This has become way off topic so we better get back to Charles and Camilla's visit which I'm sure (providing the nut-brigade stay at home) will go extremely well.
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  #33  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:44 PM
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I think it remains to be seen how they're received here; speculation won't really matter in the face of facts. These days the USA is in one of its more religion-minded phases, although the religion-based morality that gets so hot under the collar about homosexuality and abortion tends to be somewhat more relaxed about divorce, so we'll just have to see what the reaction is like.
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  #34  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth
I think it remains to be seen how they're received here; speculation won't really matter in the face of facts. These days the USA is in one of its more religion-minded phases, although the religion-based morality that gets so hot under the collar about homosexuality and abortion tends to be somewhat more relaxed about divorce, so we'll just have to see what the reaction is like.
I agree with you Elspeth. I don't think there will be any demonstrations against the royal visit. There won't be the same hysteria as when Diana visited. I think it will be just a normal state visit that will get it's 30 second new blurb and that's it.
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  #35  
Old 10-28-2005, 04:35 PM
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Thanks Elspeth for keeping the discussion on topic.

Since we were discussing general American attitudes toward the other woman who marries the husband, I still maintain that most Americans don't care in general and I believe this opinion is justified if you look at the reactions to other high profile marriages where the guy left the wife and married the mistress.

There's not a lot of moral indignation at these other marriages which speaks volumes on what Americans really think of the matter.
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  #36  
Old 10-28-2005, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth
although the religion-based morality that gets so hot under the collar about homosexuality and abortion tends to be somewhat more relaxed about divorce, so we'll just have to see what the reaction is like.
I agree, Elspeth. The reaction has been interesting so far. The attitude seems to be that people want to get a look at his new wife and see for themselves. There's quite a bit of curiosity; I think the real reaction will come as a result of how Charles and Camilla conduct themselves on the tour but that we won't know until they get here.
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  #37  
Old 10-28-2005, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel
I agree, Elspeth. The reaction has been interesting so far. The attitude seems to be that people want to get a look at his new wife and see for themselves. There's quite a bit of curiosity; I think the real reaction will come as a result of how Charles and Camilla conduct themselves on the tour but that we won't know until they get here.

I agree it is nobodys business but the partys involved it is a private matter.
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  #38  
Old 10-28-2005, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel
I would have to respectfully disagree, Lady Marmalade. While at family gatherings, Americans would be show some distaste and distance; for purely political or social gatherings, the other woman who married the man is not necessarily shunned in this country.

When Donald Trump ran off with Marla Maples, it was scandalous at first but they were received well pretty much anywhere they went afterwards. The only cases I know of where a married partner was shunned by society was during the breakup of Loni Anderson and Burt Reynolds and then the breakup between Mia Farrow and Woody Allen. But these men allegedly did a lost worse than the charges levied against Charles and Camilla. Burt was rumoured to have been physically violent with Loni and Woody ran off with his 17 year old foster daughter.

These are entirely more serious circumstances.
And of course I am happy you have an opposing viewpoint, as I respect your opinions as well, ysbel. :)

But, it is still not viewed as being 100% respectable in this case.

There is a vast difference between...celebrities, such as the ones you mentioned...of whom I have high disdain for, and the future sovereign and head of a monarchy and religion.

I am happy he is happy. But, I still see it as socially...how can I phrase it..distasteful.

Oh well, I do hope things go smoothly for them when they are here and our journalists, if given the chance of asking questions, have done their homework properly.
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Old 10-28-2005, 08:51 PM
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From what I have read in past postings on hear today...then why even have these forums? Obviously people do care.

And while yes divorce rates are high, IN GREAT BRITAIN TOO, BEATRIXFAN, we are not as forgiving in this country....we do however let things evaporate and become part of the past...but the stench is still there to smell as the damage has been done.

It does not make sense for any of us to post then if people do not care...as that is what I am reading...

With that said....we shall see how everything plays out next week...

If what happened ever happened to my parents and myself in exactly the same way....my father would be cut off and never spoken to again..I don't care how happy he would have been, there would be nothing left for him in my life.
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Old 10-28-2005, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
I am happy he is happy. But, I still see it as socially...how can I phrase it..distasteful.

Amazing how far we have come when it becomes so common and acceptable...makes one wonder about morals, folkways, etc....
It was the same social rules, taboos and constraints that kept him from his true happiness in the first place to me. I don't feel that he should have to yield to other people's ideals of propriety, especially when those people are complete strangers to him and the entire situation. How can I judge him morally if I don't know what even happened?
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