Charles & Camilla: Visit to Republic of Ireland & Northern Ireland - May 19-22, 2015

[Mbruno]

When there is a time of troubles that lead to violence and loss of life no matter where in the world, it is never one sided and I have to commend both Gerry Adams and Prince Charles for coming together in the name of peace. I don't believe that Charles' feelings seemed at all "masked" and in no way do I consider Gerry Adams to be despicable. Past acts that occurred were certainly despicable and inhumane and both sides felt them but coming together for "the greater good" not only encourages peace but also healing.

Very monumental occasion I think.

There is an important difference though. Prince Charles or the Queen for that matter bear no responsibility for the actions of the British Army or the British government in Northern Ireland. In a constitutional monarchy, responsibility for government decisions rests solely with the ministers who are elected politicians. Gerry Adams, on the other hand, despite consistently denying it, was known to be part of the IRA leadership and is therefore most likely personally responsible for several casualties related to IRA operations.

I don't intend to go into the discussion about whether the IRA actions were justified or not (personally, I think they were not), but, in any case, Prince Charles has never been an active part to that struggle, whereas Gerry Adams played a leading role.

 

[Thumbahlina]

BBC needs to clear the pic up that I see. If it's the "waterstamp" or whatever id marking on the pic,whatever it's called, it's twisting the pic and setting the color off on twitter bbc.

 

[Osipi]

I don't intend to go into the discussion about whether the IRA actions were justified or not (personally, I think they were not), but, in any case, Prince Charles has never been an active part to that struggle, whereas Gerry Adams played a leading role.

The important thing now is that instead of seeking to make war, they're seeking peace and the time to play a blame game has reached its sell by date.

 

[Al_bina]

There is an important difference though. Prince Charles or the Queen for that matter bear no responsibility for the actions of the British Army or the British government in Northern Ireland. In a constitutional monarchy, responsibility for government decisions rests solely with the ministers who are elected politicians. Gerry Adams, on the other hand, despite consistently denying it, was known to be part of the IRA leadership and is therefore most likely personally responsible for several casualties related to IRA operations. ... [snipped]

[my bolding]
This particular excuse works well in Japan only. Given the long bloody history between the countries, I am not sure that this excuse can apply to the British royals. As for commiting atrocities, no one can match the British and Anglo-Saxons.

On a different note, it is nice that the British royals pay various visits to Ireland and the Northern Ireland.

 

[wyevale]

I am not sure about the British royals

REALLY Al_bina ? Normally you are so ABSOLUTIST in your opinions.

 

[MarNoe]

I can't help but chuckle at the pics of the Irish president Mr. Michael Higgins. He looks like an elderly leprechaun.

 

[grevinnan]

There is an important difference though. Prince Charles or the Queen for that matter bear no responsibility for the actions of the British Army or the British government in Northern Ireland. In a constitutional monarchy, responsibility for government decisions rests solely with the ministers who are elected politicians. Gerry Adams, on the other hand, despite consistently denying it, was known to be part of the IRA leadership and is therefore most likely personally responsible for several casualties related to IRA operations.

I don't intend to go into the discussion about whether the IRA actions were justified or not (personally, I think they were not), but, in any case, Prince Charles has never been an active part to that struggle, whereas Gerry Adams played a leading role.

The Queen is the Head of State and Prince of Wales is representing her when he is travelling. It is irrelevant who carried out the actions. The Head of State represents all peoples and their actions, good or bad.

We ask a very great deal of the Royal Family when we expect them to mask their feelings, and be civil to such despicable persons..in the cause of 'the greater good'.

They are also diplomats. This is what diplomats do. He is not in Ireland meet personal friends.

 

[polyesco]

gallery from day 1

Prince Charles Photos - Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall's Irish Trip Day One - Zimbio

 

[Rudolph]

There is an important difference though. Prince Charles or the Queen for that matter bear no responsibility for the actions of the British Army or the British government in Northern Ireland. In a constitutional monarchy, responsibility for government decisions rests solely with the ministers who are elected politicians. Gerry Adams, on the other hand, despite consistently denying it, was known to be part of the IRA leadership and is therefore most likely personally responsible for several casualties related to IRA operations.

I don't intend to go into the discussion about whether the IRA actions were justified or not (personally, I think they were not), but, in any case, Prince Charles has never been an active part to that struggle, whereas Gerry Adams played a leading role.

Gerry Adams has never admitted remorse for anything despite him being either the number one or number two man in the IRA during the Troubles and still defends the murder of Lord Mountbatten to this day.

 

[Osipi]

I can't help but chuckle at the pics of the Irish president Mr. Michael Higgins. He looks like an elderly leprechaun.

He does seem magically delicious doesn't he. You almost want to just hug him. I noticed that on the occasion when he met with The Queen.

 

[An Ard Ri]

TRH The Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall are guests at a private dinner hosted by the Irish President and his wife at Lough Cutra Castle in County Galway.

Prince Charles hosts private dinner in Galway - RTÉ News

Lough Cutra Castle

http://www.celticcastles.com/castles/loughcutra/img/top-home.jpg

HRH The Prince touring the Burren in County Clare earlier today.

https://img.rasset.ie/000a9bf2-614.jpg


The Duchess paid a visit to St Nicholas's National School earlier.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/TNCACEg4-E3/Prince+Wales+Duchess+Cornwall+Irish+Trip+Day/frwalrL0FrC/Duchess+of+Cornwal

 

[Osipi]

Gerry Adams has never admitted remorse for anything despite him being either the number one or number two man in the IRA during the Troubles and still defends the murder of Lord Mountbatten to this day.

At the meeting today, it was reported that:

"Mr Adams said "he and we expressed our regret for what had happened from 1968 onwards".

Mr McGuiness said that "difficult issues" such as Mullaghmore, Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were met head on in the meeting.

The most important thing, he said, was that they were in a meeting with someone who wants to assist peace and reconciliation, and asked why they would not want to meet someone who was interested in doing that."

Prince Charles hosts private dinner in Galway - RTÉ News

That's good enough in my book.

 

[VictoriaB]

At the meeting today, it was reported that:

"Mr Adams said "he and we expressed our regret for what had happened from 1968 onwards".

Mr McGuiness said that "difficult issues" such as Mullaghmore, Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were met head on in the meeting.

The most important thing, he said, was that they were in a meeting with someone who wants to assist peace and reconciliation, and asked why they would not want to meet someone who was interested in doing that."

Prince Charles hosts private dinner in Galway - RTÉ News

That's good enough in my book.

I agree with your posts on this topic Osipi. It was a positive gesture on both sides.

Thank you to all who have posted links. I have enjoyed seeing the clips and photographs. Thanks in particular for the links to RTE, it's always good to see things from a slightly different perspective than that of the British media.

 

[cepe]

They are also diplomats. This is what diplomats do. He is not in Ireland meet personal friends.

I think what is difficult, going on from Wyevale's point, is that in this instance it is personal grief, ie the loss of uncle/great-uncle/ plus the loss of Mountbattens grandson. But we expect personal grief to be put aside by BRF (and other RFs as well).

And they do that. Even young boys when their mother dies. The alternative is to let the world in on their grief which would be too intrusive.

Charles is doing a great job in representing the Monarchy and Government on this trip

 

[JessRulz]

Camilla treated to a cocktail named The Duchess in her honour in Ireland | Daily Mail Online

 

[VictoriaB]

Here's something you don't often see - the Guardian being complimentary about Prince Charles.

The Guardian view on the Gerry Adams handshake: a brave act of reconciliation | Editorial | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

[An Ard Ri]

TRH The Prince and Duchess really seemed to enjoy the Irish dancing in Galway yesterday.

Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall visit Galway

Gerry Adams speaking about his meeting with the Prince of Wales.

http://www.irishtimes.com/adams-and-mcguinness-meet-prince-charles-1.2218312

 

[Rudolph]

At the meeting today, it was reported that:

"Mr Adams said "he and we expressed our regret for what had happened from 1968 onwards".

Mr McGuiness said that "difficult issues" such as Mullaghmore, Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were met head on in the meeting.

The most important thing, he said, was that they were in a meeting with someone who wants to assist peace and reconciliation, and asked why they would not want to meet someone who was interested in doing that."

Prince Charles hosts private dinner in Galway - RTÉ News

That's good enough in my book.

Martin McGuiness has admitted his involvement in the IRA but Gerry Adams has not

The 'regret' expressed by Adams is not him showing remorse or personal responsibility for what he did because he doesn't even admit to being a member of the IRA when in fact he was the Belfast Commander when Lord Mountbatten was murdered

 

[Dman]

Video:
Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall have attended a civic reception in Sligo this morning as they continue their visit to the Republic of Ireland-
Home - ITNSource News

The crowds are loving Charles and Camilla.

British Royals @britishroyals · 30m 30 minutes ago
Powerful words from Prince Charles in Ireland: "We need no longer be victims of our difficult history with each other" #RoyalVisitIreland

British Royals @britishroyals · 23m 23 minutes ago
Prince Charles on Lord Mountbatten, who was killed by an IRA bomb in 1979: "He represented the grandfather I never had" #RoyalVisitIreland

 

[Mbruno]

The Queen is the Head of State and Prince of Wales is representing her when he is travelling. It is irrelevant who carried out the actions. The Head of State represents all peoples and their actions, good or bad..

That would be true in a presidential system of government as in the US, but it is definitely not true in a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system of government where the King/Queen is exempt from political responsibility. The principle of sovereign immunity and lack of responsibility of the monarch for government decisions is actually one of the pillars of all modern European monarchies and is precisely what allows the sovereign to stay above partisan politics.

A few quotes to clarify that point:


Constitution of the Netherlands, Section 2

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
Article 42
(1) The Government

shall comprise the King and the Ministers.
(2) The Ministers, and not the King, shall be responsible for acts of government.


Constitution of Denmark, Part III[/FONT]
Section 13 [Responsibility of Ministers][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
The King shall not be answerable for his actions; his person shall be sacrosanct. The Ministers shall be responsible for the conduct of the government; their responsibility shall be determined by Statute.[/FONT]


Constitution of Belgium, Section IIII
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
Article 106 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
No actions of the King may take effect without the countersignature of a minister, who, in doing so, takes responsibility upon himself.


[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Constitution of Norway, Section B
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
§ 5 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
The King's person is sacred; he cannot be censured or accused. The responsibility rests with his Council.[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]


Constitution of Spain, Title II
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
Article 64 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
(1) The actions of the King shall be countersigned by the President of the Government and, when appropriate, by the competent ministers. The nomination and appointment of the President of the Government and the dissolution provided for in Article 93 shall be countersigned by the President of the House of Representatives.
(2) The persons who countersign the acts of the King shall be responsible for them.



[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The 1975 Swedish Instrument of Government goes one step further by separating the King entirely from the government (and, therefore, automatically exempting him of any political responsibility) while reaffirming at the same time his immunity from criminal prosecution.


Swedish Instrument of Government


Chapter 6
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
Article 1[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
The Government

comprises the Prime Minister and other members of the Cabinet.The Prime Minister is appointed in the manner prescribed in Articles 2 to 4. The Prime Minister appoints the other members of the Cabinet.


Chapter 5
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
Article 7[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
The King cannot be prosecuted for his act or omissions. A Regent cannot be prosecuted for his act or omissions as Head of State.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]


[/FONT]

 

[Mbruno]

Martin McGuiness has admitted his involvement in the IRA but Gerry Adams has not

The 'regret' expressed by Adams is not him showing remorse or personal responsibility for what he did because he doesn't even admit to being a member of the IRA when in fact he was the Belfast Commander when Lord Mountbatten was murdered

Well said , Rudolph !

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The article in the Constitution of the Netherlands is a bit different than the translation above:


Article 42
(1) The Government comprises of the King and the ministers;
(2) The King is inviolable, the ministers are accountable.


This can not be explained as "the King stands above the parties". No, he is IN the Government. The opposition in Parliament is opposing the Government, including the King. So there is no "His Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition" in the Netherlands as the King is part of "the other side". The Dutch King also does not speak about "My Government". He is IN that Government himself.

 

[Lumutqueen]

@MaxFosterCNN: Powerful speech from Prince of Wales in Ireland referring to the conflict and his great uncle: http://t.co/J8Z1ceVRCb

@RoyalCentral: Prince Charles chats with students and researchers at Sligo's Institute of Technology. (Via @BritEmbDublin) http://t.co/uYzSuta2Fo

 

[Dman]

Video:
The Prince of Wales has said he feels the pain of other victims of the 30 year conflict on the island of Ireland. Prince Charles said people in Ireland and Britain need no longer be victims of a different history. Charles made the remarks in Sligo ahead of a peace and reconciliation prayer service in nearby Drumcliffe and the poignant visit to Mullaghmore where Lord Louis Mountbatten was killed by the IRA on August 27 1979. .
Home - ITNSource News

 

[Ilse]

Day 2:
Beelden En Nieuwsfoto's | Getty Images

 

[roseroyal]

Camilla treated to a cocktail named The Duchess in her honour in Ireland | Daily Mail Online

Such a Granny.

 

[Mbruno]

The article in the Constitution of the Netherlands is a bit different than the translation above:


Article 42
(1) The Government comprises of the King and the ministers;
(2) The King is inviolable, the ministers are accountable.

Duc: I agee that is the literal translation of the Dutch text. The official English version on the Dutch government website doesn't use the literal translation though, but rather the text I quoted.

http://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.government.nl%2Ffiles%2Fdocuments-and-publications%2Fregulations%2F2012%2F10%2F18%2Fthe-constitution-of-the-kingdom-of-the-netherlands-2008%2Fthe-constitution-of-the-kingdom-of-the-netherlands-2008.pdf&ei=_rpcVe3eFsXVggSj3YH4Bw&usg=AFQjCNH2Qg8Lw3VjU7jsJFwfIs7VrVWnDg&sig2=MGP_OuvKP48hCb-rRVLF6A&bvm=bv.93756505,d.eXY


"§ 2. The King and the Ministers
Article 42
1. The Government shall comprise the King and the Ministers.
2. The Ministers, and not the King, shall be responsible for acts of
government."


Dutch Version (as quoted by Duc et Pair)

http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0001840/geldigheidsdatum_20-05-2015#Hoofdstuk2

"§ 2. Koning en ministers



Artikel 42

• 1.De regering wordt gevormd door de Koning en de ministers.
• 2.De Koning is onschendbaar; de ministers zijn verantwoordelijk."

I agree that the King is part of the Dutch government, but that is not inconsistent with my remark that he is not responsible for government acts. In fact, none of the monarchs of the 7 major European kingdoms (Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, and the UK) are.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Prince and Duchess in Mullaghmore in County Sligo

Prince Charles begins tour of Mullaghmore - RTÉ News


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPZy5oWeEfg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZNsS4vBaxk

 

[Dman]

Videos:
Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall have attended a service for peace and reconciliation in Drumcliffe today then visited the final resting place of the Irish poet WB Yeats-
Home - ITNSource News

Prince Charles has visited the Irish fishing village where his great-uncle, Lord Mountbatten, was assassinated by the Irish Republican Army 36 years ago. Lord Louis Mountbatten, who served as the last Viceroy of India, was killed in 1979 when a remote-controlled bomb destroyed his yacht as it left Mullaghmore, 26 kilometres (16 miles) up the road from Sligo, where the 79-year-old World War II hero had lived for three decades-
Home - ITNSource News

 

[roseroyal]

Why would you want to visit the spot where a loved one was murdered? Why put yourself through that h***? I can see visiting a grave- not the murder scene.