Charles and Camilla: The Marriage (2005 and on)

[Iluvbertie]

I have read some people's views on other sites that say that regardless of what Willian and Harry say in reality they don't like her and blame her for the hurt she caused their mother - even though they don't know either William or Harry or what really went on in the marriage that William and Harry do know.

So if they came out and said 'Queen Camilla is the right name for our step-mother' there would still be people out there who would claim that they don't really mean that.

 

[Ish]

On the day of WnK's wedding I believe it was E news that provided a long list of the Queen's other titles and there were a lot. Is it possible for Camilla to take one of these titles hen they belong to Charles in a similar fashion that she took her current title from him being the Duke of Cornwall?
I am all for a Queen Camilla, I'm just asking if its possible.

This approach has been argued in the titles forum. I believe (although I'm sure Bertie will correct me if I'm wrong) that stuff like "Lord of Mann" or "Duke of Lancaster" was either a style and not a title or simply didn't have a female equivalent (the female monarch is the Duke, not Duchess, of Lancaster).

Personally, I'd rather see Camilla go by Duchess of Lancaster or something similar than Princess Consort.

 

[MARG]

I am not sure but I think that all the titles Prince Charles holds as Prince of Wales immediately devolve to the new Heir and (hopefully) PoW . . . William. Charles becomes HM the King and William, among other titles, will be the Duke of Cornwall which means Catherine will then hold that and all Camilla's other present titles?

This leaves us with HM Queen Consort or H? Princess Consort . . . I think.

 

[Ish]

I am not sure but I think that all the titles Prince Charles holds as Prince of Wales immediately devolve to the new Heir and (hopefully) PoW . . . William. Charles becomes HM the King and William, among other titles, will be the Duke of Cornwall which means Catherine will then hold that and all Camilla's other present titles?

This leaves us with HM Queen Consort or H? Princess Consort . . . I think.

Charles is currently the Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, the Duke of Cornwall, the Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, and Prince and Great Steward of Scotland.

None of these titles are hereditary in the traditional sense. They do not pass from father to son, they (mostly) pass from heir apparent to heir apparent.

- Prince of Wales is a title for the heir apparent. The Earl of Chester is linked to this title, as the Earl is always the PoW (since the 14th century)
- Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Lord of the Isles, nd Baron of Renfrew are all Scottish titles. With the exception of the Lord of the Isles, they're all titles for the heir apparent. Lord of the Isles is a title for the eldest male child of the monarch
- Duke of Cornwall is a title that automatically passes on to the monarch's eldest male child if he is the heir apparent

When Charles becomes king none of these titles will be his to use anymore - and therefore none will be his wife's to use by courtesy. The only person who will be able to use these titles (some automatically, and some when he's created as such) will be William. Catherine, by extension, will be able to use the titles that Camilla currently has access to.

The only title that the female consort of the monarch traditionally can use is Queen Consort. The monarch does have other titles and styles, it's just a debate of whether or not the consort has access to use their female equivalent.

The big titles/styles that Charles will have are King, Duke of Normandy, Lord of Mann, and Duke of Lancaster. With the exception of king/queen, the monarch has traditionally used the male equivalent of these other titles, regardless of the monarch's gender. So, the debate becomes a question of can Camilla be known as Duchess of Normandy (or Lancaster) or Lady of Mann instead of Queen.

The problem with Princess Consort is that none of the monarchy's titles are "Prince," therefore there is no princess title (yet) for Camilla to use instead. There's also the question of if she becomes Princess instead of Queen, does that mean that they're doing away with the Queen consort title? What precedent is it setting?

The one thing that I could think of is if they make Camilla a Princess in her own right (similar to Philip), and while she will hold the title of Queen Consort she uses the title of Princess instead because it is something that she holds in her own right, instead of by courtesy.

I kind of suspect that when the whole Princess Consort thing was first released it was done so without a realization of how much people were going to debate and obsess over it in the years to come.

 

[wyevale]

The whole kerfuffle seems more and more absurd the more it is agonised over !

I hope that when the time comes Camilla will simply {instantaneously} become Queen Consort the moment her lawful husband becomes King, {and be accorded her correct title}. Involving Parliaments in the UK, and elsewhere seems ridiculous and a waste of everybody's time and money.

Simply to appease a few Diana 'diehards', who will never be satisfied, whatever title Camilla uses !

 

[maryr0249]

Agreed and Camilla will be Queen Consort. Frankly Charles should have just kept his mouth shut about this Princess Consort alternative because it is Charles himself who is/was the catalyst for this whole mess.

I wonder if Sally Osman who recently came on board as PR chief for Charles and Camilla might be the person to transition the unwieldy "Princess" off the website and out of people's minds. The only thing I could learn about her online was that in her time at the BBC she walked away from some very ugly situations unscathed. It's a silly expression, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[BritishRoyalist]

I found some Articles on Google News Archives from 98/99 in which a poll was taken and in the article it said that that Most Britons supported Charles relationship with Camilla! Another Poll in 2001 said that more people's increasingly wanted Charles to marry Camilla. Very Interesting! so why did people's opinions suddenly change in 2005 after the marriage took place?

 

[cepe]

Dear me, I thought that perhaps time had sorted this. Everyday people get married; sometimes its great and sometimes it isn't; sometimes the person you love just isn't there to marry and so you marry someone else; its life and it happens.

If family members can handle it and be happy for the result, what has it to do with anyone else?

Let it lie, for goodness sake. Those of you quoting adultery and sin, should consider the New Testament and it's promotion of forgiveness.

They offered up their act of contrition at their wedding blessing in St George's, so that means the Church has blessed them as well.

I think that Charles and Camilla are good together and the real tragedy is that they were not together in the first place.

 

[Roslyn]

I have always been a supporter of Camilla, I just think Charles made a mistake floating 'princess consort'. I realise he thought he needed to for political reasons but at the end of the day Camilla will be Queen, both officially and with the people.

I, too, have always been a supporter of Camilla, but I think we need to look at the 'princess consort' idea through 2005 eyes, not 8 years later, with the benefit of hindsight.

Though I was squealing with excitement when I heard the news, back in 2005 there was still a lot of hostility towards Camilla. People who have now come to not just accept her but actively like her a lot were still very negative about her then. Diana and her death were still fresh in people's minds because she was still in the newspapers regularly. The inquiries and inquests were still underway. Further, though we now know what a splendid job Camilla has done as Duchess of Cornwall, both in her own right and supporting Charles, and we have seen what a wonderful difference her support has made to him, at the time the engagement was announced she was still largely an unknown quantity.

So, all in all, I think it was probably a smart move announcing it was "intended" that she be known as Princess Consort when Charles is King. It quelled some ire and bought her time to prove herself. And since it was only "intended", it is not set in stone and she can in fact be known as Her Majesty the Queen from the start.

 

[Ish]

I, too, have always been a supporter of Camilla, but I think we need to look at the 'princess consort' idea through 2005 eyes, not 8 years later, with the benefit of hindsight.

Though I was squealing with excitement when I heard the news, back in 2005 there was still a lot of hostility towards Camilla. People who have now come to not just accept her but actively like her a lot were still very negative about her then. Diana and her death were still fresh in people's minds because she was still in the newspapers regularly. The inquiries and inquests were still underway. Further, though we now know what a splendid job Camilla has done as Duchess of Cornwall, both in her own right and supporting Charles, and we have seen what a wonderful difference her support has made to him, at the time the engagement was announced she was still largely an unknown quantity.

So, all in all, I think it was probably a smart move announcing it was "intended" that she be known as Princess Consort when Charles is King. It quelled some ire and bought her time to prove herself. And since it was only "intended", it is not set in stone and she can in fact be known as Her Majesty the Queen from the start.

That's really well said.

I think to a degree commenting on her future titles was potentially harmful to said titles in the long run, because media and the Internet has made it so that our memories can be much longer. Had this happened in the pre-Internet days it's likely that the Princess Consort issue would have been forgotten and as Camilla proved herself and people moved on, they would have had more leeway in the future.

If the Princess Consort thing comes to pass, I hope they handle it in a way that doesn't make an awkward precedent (and is done in a way that Camilla is comfortable with). If it doesn't, then I hope there's no backlash amongst people who were clinging to the Princess idea.

 

[MARG]

Like it or not, it is always the squeaky wheel that gets the oil and that sop was to a small but vocal anti Camilla brigade whipped into frenzy by the paparazzi.

But now in 2013, I think the paps are having to review their position as they realise they need to establish a new relationship with the future King and his wife (witness that somewhat witless but harmless piece on Camilla by Richard Kay), as their future is looking a bit bleak. Charles abhors them and both William and Harry loath and despise them.

So far at least, Camilla has responded to them with grace and wit and Catherine, while tentative, seems to be following her lead rather than those of Charles, William and Harry, so it's a no-brainer that being nice to those two ladies is their best bet for improved future relations.

 

[Roslyn]

Though I would like to see Camilla become Queen, it is quite possible that she is strongly against the idea. Maybe she only agreed to marry Charles on condition that she not be required to take that title. I wouldn't want to see her forced into it now if she really doesn't want it, and the "intended" bit allows her to retain that option.

 

[Osipi]

This explanation to me is perhaps the soundest. I do remember at that time of the engagement/marriage it was reported that Camilla wasn't overly anxious to jump into the royal fishbowl. She was already middle aged and had raised her own family and most likely preferred life in the background. She had absolutely no clue how well she would mesh in being the Prince of Wales consort or how she would handle the intense scrutiny of the public and press.

Years down to the line we've come to realize just how well she has adapted to royal life at Charles' side and perhaps the idea of being Queen Consort is not such a scary thing for her anymore. She's been wonderful to the people she's met and at the State Opening of Parliament, she looked every inch the Queen Consort in waiting that she really is.

 

[Nico]

I came across this little article from this great blog and thought it was the perfect expression of something felt by many, including me.

An Apology to Camilla — Say What?!?

 

[Baroness of Books]

Nice piece, Nico, and I know a lot of people have experienced that turnaround in feelings toward Camilla and would like to see her accept the title of Queen Consort when that time comes.

 

[Dman]

...I think Camilla is doing a great job as a senior member of the royal family.

I realized a while back that Camilla most likely have always been a nice person. I don't think Charles would've had an affair with a very nasty and evil person. Diana went on to see Camilla that way because Camilla was having an affair with her husband and I think Diana had a every right to have those feelings towards Camilla. Those feelings were Diana's business, not mines.

I see Camilla has a very nice, funny lady and who's doing a good job as Charles's consort. She made her mistakes back in the day, it's part of royal history, it will follow her to her grave and none of us will ever forget it, but I think we all have to move on and look to the future with hope and give Camilla some due credit.

 

[NGalitzine]

The past is the past. Right now we have a Prince of Wales who seems happy in both his public and his private life which can only be a good thing. HRH The Duchess of Cornwall has been gaining public acceptance over the 8 years of the marriage and most people have been able to move on and put the vitriol of the 90s behind them. Charles and Camilla have moved on. William and Harry seem to have accepted the facts of their life and moved on, and seem pleased that their father is a happy man. The Cof E have blessed their marriage. What more can people ask for?

 

[Osipi]

Definitely time once again for a clean-up squad in here and for a nice relaxing coffee break!

 

[blauerengel]

...we should look forward and see how good it looks now! Charles and Camilla have a solid & balanced relationship,William is happily married and expects his first child and Harry seems to be more mature now and has a good job in the army...everyone is getting on well with their life! No need to talk the past over and over....

Some people are just meant for each other Charles and Camilla have a lot in common & they are so happy together. Furthermore they are a great working team,everywhere they go they are accepted with friendly welcome and the people enjoy being with them. They are doing a good job in representing their country and they are behaving properly and decent as I expect from a royal.

Thank you for that well written explanation. I am old enough to have witnessed the whole show and it was a marriage than should never have taken place. If you look back at royals in the past. Many married out of duty and had a mistress on the side. Many times more than one. Marriage was a duty and love was not considered. I am glad that era is over.

Yes, I think that it is good that nowadays everyone can chose a partner they love,or at least someone who they have a good relationship with,someone they respect and trust. It must have been a daunting prospect for the royals of the old days to be married off to a person they did not know at all! I am happy for how Charles and Camilla turned out today and I am also looking forward to Catherine´s baby and hope for a good future for the whole family!

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Charles and Camilla both seem very comfortable in their own skins. Prince Charles should be more stressed as he takes on additional royal duties, but he actually seems more relaxed and happy. I'm sure his marriage is a big part of it, but it may also be William's marriage and Prince Harry's growing confidence. He's got a lot to be grateful for and he seems to know it.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I wonder if this thread is going to be closed. All I will say is I remember the moment when my opinion of Charles and Camilla started to change. It was when they were at the alter in 2005 and Cam was having trouble finding a correct page in a book and Charles reached over to help her find it.

 

[Warren]

Definitely time once again for a clean-up squad in here and for a nice relaxing coffee break!

Too true!
Posts rehashing the same-old same-old have been removed.

Warren
British Forums moderator

 

[MARG]

I wonder if this thread is going to be closed. All I will say is I remember the moment when my opinion of Charles and Camilla started to change. It was when they were at the alter in 2005 and Cam was having trouble finding a correct page in a book and Charles reached over to help her find it.

That was a really a very sweet and tender moment.

Another such moment for me was when they were on tour in Africa and crossing a log bridge and he just put his hand out behind him for her to hold on to. It was such a telling moment and showed the way they compliment each other.

 

[blauerengel]

Iam not sure If Camilla is the charles´love. Because I have read a lot of things about Charles.

Well, I can´t explain it in any other way-just look at Diana- blonde, perfect figure, perfect teeth, young,innocent and charming-why should a man leave her for Camilla if it was not for love?
Charles & Camilla went through a lot of difficulties to be together, now they can have a normal life as a married couple and I guess that is proof enough that they are "soul partners" as I like to call such people

 

[Osipi]

I think that as we have watched Camilla and Charles together since their marriage in 2005, we have seen a few glimpses into what makes their relationship so compatible and so long lasting. It takes quite a bit more to cement a good, intimate, working relationship than the outer appearance of the human body. If that was all that was needed, I'd wager that 95% of people over the age of 60 would be single as physical attractiveness flies out the window and heads south for the most of us.

With Charles and Camilla, over the years they've built something the grew on a solid foundation of friendship. Although we've seen some glimpses of tender moments between them, I think its more common to see in their public lives how they seem to enjoy what they're doing together looking like the best friends that they are.

This picture, which they ended up using as their Christmas card in 2008, I think really expresses what I'm trying to put across.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ymail.co.uk/news/article-1094917/One-giggles-

 

[Al_bina]

It is all nice and sentimental. It would be a safe guess to say that the relationship between Prince Charles and his current wife is mostly built on the PR image by Mark Bolland. This is enough to keep the vulgar herd at large happy.

 

[Nico]

It is all nice and sentimental. It would be a safe guess to say that the relationship between Prince Charles and his current wife is mostly built on the PR image by Mark Bolland. This is enough to keep the vulgar herd at large happy.

Well i'm perfectly aware that for you the occidental world is more or less a sordid place with dreadful people with even more dreadful manners but STILL i believe there's a genuine affection between these two and you just can't choregraph a look, a smile or a touch.

for exemple :

Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles Photos - The Prince Of Wales And Duchess Of Cornwall Visit Australia - Day 2 - Zimbio

Charles And Camilla Attend Annual Mey Games - Pictures - Zimbio

Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles Photos - The Prince Of Wales And Duchess Of Cornwall Visit New Zealand - Day 7 - Zimbio

Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles Photos - Prince Charles, Prince of Wales and Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall Visit Borough Market - Zimbio

Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles Photos - Prince Charles Visits Devon With Camilla - Zimbio

Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles Photos - The Prince Of Wales And Duchess Of Cornwall Visit New Zealand - Day 5 - Zimbio

So call me naive, vulgar herd or whatever you want but there 's some serious affection, if not love, out there and not just a PR stunt.

 

[blauerengel]

I think that as we have watched Camilla and Charles together since their marriage in 2005, we have seen a few glimpses into what makes their relationship so compatible and so long lasting. It takes quite a bit more to cement a good, intimate, working relationship than the outer appearance of the human body. If that was all that was needed, I'd wager that 95% of people over the age of 60 would be single as physical attractiveness flies out the window and heads south for the most of us.

With Charles and Camilla, over the years they've built something the grew on a solid foundation of friendship. Although we've seen some glimpses of tender moments between them, I think its more common to see in their public lives how they seem to enjoy what they're doing together looking like the best friends that they are.

That´s very true, I could not have said it better
Unfortunately many people still believe that looks and youth is all that matters for love & succesful relationships.
That may be the reason why everyone is surprised when a pretty young woman gets left for a appearance-wise less attractive person with more experience and other qualities that are less apparent and only known to the people who know her personally.
I never thought that C&C was anything but true love,that impression and feeling only grew stronger over the years as I have watched them together. Especially after they got married nobody could doubt their love, I can not understand why anyone thinks differently but I have to accept that some ppl do not share my point of view...

 

[Ish]

...I believe there's a genuine affection between these two and you just can't choregraph a look, a smile or a touch...

I love these pictures, thanks for sharing them.

The little moments between them when they share a look or a touch, or when you see one of them do something for the other is what makes me love this couple. I doubt the PR campaign would have happened at all if they weren't in love; Charles was never obliged to remarry, or to marry Camilla at all, and could have just as easily remained a bachelor with a mistress (or mistresses). He didn't want to do that, he wanted to be with Camilla despite whatever difficulties doing so may have presented - that to me says that this is a relationship founded on love.

 

[blauerengel]

I also enjoyed the pictures a lot, sweet moments of C&C together! They are an ideal couple to me-same age,interests and sense of humour plus they are best friends and loyal to each other which is very rare to find.

Their wedding a PR-campaign?
The Prince has risked a lot, Camilla was one the most hated living persons in GB, why should anyone want them to marry for PR reasons,it just does not make any sense at all...
The ideas of some Diana-fans are absolutely ridiculous, I am sure that she would have liked Charles to be happy and she would have grown a friendly relationship with him over the years...this hate-campaign against Camilla would certainly not please her!