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  #1201  
Old 05-09-2013, 05:01 AM
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She will always be booed by the Diana fanatics who can't accept the fact that she wasn't the right wife for Charles.

I agree that there should have been no mention of a future title but that was a simple sop to a vocal minority.
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  #1202  
Old 05-09-2013, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Camilla is Princess of Wales and she will officially be Queen Consort. Tactfully Camilla chose to use another of her titles to distanced herself from Diana. Clever move.

The wedding day was 8 years ago, people's opinions have changed and even to Diana followers they accept that Camilla is doing a good job and makes Charles happy in his role. A year before the marriage an opinion poll showed that more people approved of the marriage than disapproved, however the majority of people didn't care.

The "Princess Consort" thing came from Clarence House, never a quote from Charles himself. At the time of the marriage it was a political move, which they more than likely hoped would be forgotten. Why it's on the royal website, I do not know. I bet this came from the same PR guy who did the whole "Charles wants to slim down the monarchy" crap.

Clarence House = Charles.

Nothing goes on that website without his approval just as nothing goes on the monarchy website without The Queen's approval.
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  #1203  
Old 05-09-2013, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Clarence House = Charles.

Nothing goes on that website without his approval just as nothing goes on the monarchy website without The Queen's approval.
I agree Iluvbertie.

According to the website:
  • Her Royal Highness uses the title HRH The Duchess of Cornwall
  • As was explained at the time of their wedding in April 2005, it is intended that The Duchess will be known as HRH The Princess Consort when The Prince of Wales accedes to The Throne.

Actually the FAQs FAQs are quite interesting and do not shy away from addressing some very hard questions.

I believe that the website will be changed to reflect that she will be "HRH The Princess Consort" - just as now she is "The Duchess of Cornwall"
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  #1204  
Old 05-09-2013, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post

Clarence House = Charles.

Nothing goes on that website without his approval just as nothing goes on the monarchy website without The Queen's approval.
Just cause it goes on the website does not mean it was his idea, or do you know otherwise?
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  #1205  
Old 05-09-2013, 06:00 AM
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Isnt this a simple solution..

A simple(?) solution to all this:

When The Queen passes away..
In their condolence messages/resolutions, the PM/Leader of Opposition/Speaker and whoever else matters, will add that they wish a great/glorious reign to "King Charles and Queen Camilla".
It will automatically be assumed that she is accepted as Queen.
If the press reminds them of Princess Consort mess (they will inevitably do),
The PM or concerned minister politely replies:
"Yes, its true Clarence House announced it back then. But like Duchess of Cornwall, there is no equal alternate title for Queen Consort. To create a new title will require act of Parliament, and that Act will impose the new title on all wives of future Kings.
Since that is all not necessary now, she will be The Queen Consort, which is her right title"

During all this The Clarence House/Buckingham Palace will remain completely calm on Camilla's title. So the problem will be solved. Of course there will be fuss from Di-fanatics, but it will be there anyway..
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  #1206  
Old 05-09-2013, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
A simple(?) solution to all this:

When The Queen passes away..
In their condolence messages/resolutions, the PM/Leader of Opposition/Speaker and whoever else matters, will add that they wish a great/glorious reign to "King Charles and Queen Camilla".
It will automatically be assumed that she is accepted as Queen.
If the press reminds them of Princess Consort mess (they will inevitably do),
The PM or concerned minister politely replies:
"Yes, its true Clarence House announced it back then. But like Duchess of Cornwall, there is no equal alternate title for Queen Consort. To create a new title will require act of Parliament, and that Act will impose the new title on all wives of future Kings.
Since that is all not necessary now, she will be The Queen Consort, which is her right title"
During all this The Clarence House/Buckingham Palace will remain completely calm on Camilla's title. So the problem will be solved. Of course there will be fuss from Di-fanatics, but it will be there anyway..
But is a "solution" actually required since there is no problem to solve (as far as Charles and Camilla are concerned as to Camilla's future title?
Putting that aside, if an Act of Parliament is required in the scenario we all seem to assume needs addressing, then I should imagine such Act can be so written as to refer only to the wife of the present king so as not to affect future king's wives?
In any event, could someone explain WHY an Act of Parliament is required (not that I see it as an imposition for one to be drawn up) as there is no written constitution stating that the wife of the king is to be styles and titled Queen Consort.
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  #1207  
Old 05-09-2013, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco View Post
At the end of the day, Charles still feels it necessary to state on his shiny new website that Camilla will be known as Princess Consort FAQs :
Will The Duchess become Queen when The Prince becomes King?

As was explained at the time of their wedding in April 2005, it is intended that The Duchess will be known as HRH The Princess Consort when The Prince of Wales accedes to The Throne.


The only reason I can think of for stating this after 8 years marriage is Charles knows no matter what parliament says, no matter what the Church says, there are still large segments of British society that will not except Camilla as Queen. I like Camilla but there are still millions of Dianaphiles out there that will riot if Camilla is styled Queen.

Sad but true IMO.
Even the Daily Mail is now starting to try to "explain" to their readers that while Camilla is not using the title of Princess of Wales, she is Charles' wife and uses just another of his titles. Okay, we all know it, but there are a lot of people who didn't bother or were too young in 2005 who are told now that Charles and Camilla are "Prince Charles and his wife Camilla, the Duke and Duchess of Cornwall" as a caption on one foto which showed them on the Opening of Parliament ceremony yesterday... IMHO a clear sign that the Mail (and the other papers) will immediately support King Charles and Queen Camilla.

BTW: THe Dutch explained the fact that Maxima is called queen even though they have no longer a constitution which gives the wife of the king the title of queen (they changed all that to gender equality) through a "Royal tradition with no constitutional content" but that Maxima's official title is in fact HM Queen Maxima of the Netherlands and that she is refferred to as HM the queen. Goes to show you can have it all!
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  #1208  
Old 05-09-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bosco View Post
Charles will make sure to have William refer to Camilla as Queen in the lead up to the coronation and thus put the whole issue to bed.
TBH, I don't see this happening. One fact is that the coronation of Charles most likely will be over a year after the death of his mother and frankly, I believe that if any action is going to be taken (such as what has been mentioned about parliamentary proceedings necessary for Camilla to have the title Princess Consort), it will have to be done before the death of HM. Once Charles becomes King, Camilla will be Queen Consort and it would look kind of silly to implement a different title for Camilla and to me seem as a waste of time and energy by Parliament.

William will refer to his stepmother by whatever title she holds in public. We don't know what he calls her in private to my knowledge.
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  #1209  
Old 05-09-2013, 08:40 AM
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Just a note, that the phrase "it is intended" does not necessarily translate into "it will be". Very cleverly worded phrase, "it is intended".

And yes, there has been a King Consort in England, if not in the U.K. ... Philip II of Spain was created King by Mary I. Though his title may have been King, rather than King Consort.
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  #1210  
Old 05-09-2013, 08:48 AM
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I'm an American but I fully support Camilla if she prefers to be called HRH The Princess Consort and I think Parliament should grant her that wish if she wants it to be that way. If she's to be Her Majesty The Queen Consort, then so be it.
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  #1211  
Old 05-09-2013, 09:12 AM
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If I were Camilla (or another wife of a future british king, this has nothing to do with Camilla as a person), I would not want to be the woman to be called "Queen" after HM Elisabeth. That title is forever synonym with the "current" Queen for people. Out of respect, I would rather be called Consort than follow a Queen who leaves behind more than 60 years of history and served her country so well for such a long time.
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  #1212  
Old 05-09-2013, 09:13 AM
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Camilla should be styled as Queen Consort whether "Diana's sons" approve or not. They've clearly accepted her and her future role.
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  #1213  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Camilla should be styled as Queen Consort whether "Diana's sons" approve or not. They've clearly accepted her and her future role.
I totally agree with you. Years of British traditions and the way titles and styles work in the UK are not going to change no matter how much the DM moans and groans or that a percentage of the population still have a vendetta against Camilla or the previous Queen reigned for well over 60 years. By law, the wife of a King is a Queen Consort and that's how it should remain. I do also believe that Parliament has better things to do than spend time rewriting whatever would need to be rewritten to allow this Princess Consort title. It just doesn't sound feasible to me at all.

Its interesting to note that I've seen some recent articles referring to Camilla as Queen-in-waiting and the Duchess of Glamour and I had to do a double take as it was in a Mail Online article.
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  #1214  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MissJanet View Post
If I were Camilla (or another wife of a future british king, this has nothing to do with Camilla as a person), I would not want to be the woman to be called "Queen" after HM Elisabeth. That title is forever synonym with the "current" Queen for people. Out of respect, I would rather be called Consort than follow a Queen who leaves behind more than 60 years of history and served her country so well for such a long time.
There's a difference here. HM Elizabeth II is a Queen Regnant. Camilla will be a Queen Consort.
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  #1215  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Bosco View Post
Camilla will legally be Queen, this entire dance over what her style will be is the issue. There is no guarantee the tabloids or public will refer to Camilla as Queen even though she will be Queen Consort.
By having William publicly refer to the 'King and Queen' after HM passes puts the entire Princess Consort issue to bed IMO and Camilla can use the title Queen because Diana's son has given it the okay.
Actually Camilla cannot style herself as Princess Consort on a whim because there is no title held by Charles as King for her to take it from. To be titled or even styled as "Princess", she would have to be created a Princess in her own right such as Philip was by his wife and Queen. To have William say its OK would have absolutely no effect whatsoever. TBH, as soon as Charles becomes King, they will both be referred to as HM The King and HM The Queen unless parliamentary legislation is passed beforehand. What the tabloids print is not something I think any of the BRF are overly worried about.
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  #1216  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:56 AM
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It's the Ghost of Bad Behavior Past that the public minds, and that Charles fears to remind them of, not the late Princess.
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  #1217  
Old 05-09-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco View Post
She should have been styled Princess of Wales from the start then and not worry about what Diana's sons think.
Charles obviously has reservations about how the public will react because his website says she will be the Princess Consort. Like it or not, the ghost of Diana past is all over this or otherwise there wouldn't be an issue to discuss.
Lately it has been very rare to find an article about Diana - not even that much comparisons between her and Catherine that a lot of us (me included) thought must come. I believe this is caused by the papers' wish to not open up the can of worms anymore when it comes to the day Charles will be king with Camilla being his wife. Let's face it: the British people are traditional and Diana has been dead for so long - ever day the queen lives longer, it sees public opinion tend to handle the new reign as traditional as possible. And what is a court of a king without a queen and a (young) Crown Princely couple? The whole "Princess Consort" thing would not sit well with the British people who see all other monarchies have their queen ans wife of the king and won't understand why they cannot have one when their king has a wife. IMHO, of course.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:24 PM
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OK, so now on reflection I can see (I think) that the Princess Consort title does not actually exist; Charles will be king rather than a prince so there will be no secondary title available for Camilla to take in order for her to retain a title with Princess in it; she will need to be made a princess in her own right if she is to be styled princess consort?! Am I there yet, has the penny dropped or am I still confused??

Assuming the above is correct, I think we can expect one of two things: either Camilla is made a princess in her own right upon Charles' accession or confirmation will be forthcoming within the next few years that Camilla will, on reflection, be Queen Consort.
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  #1219  
Old 05-09-2013, 12:28 PM
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Did I miss something? Have Diana's sons said anything about not approving of Camilla having the title Queen Consort (or Princess of Wales)? The only thing I've heard either of them say about her is that they love her, and that she makes their father happy.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
OK, so now on reflection I can see (I think) that the Princess Consort title does not actually exist; Charles will be king rather than a prince so there will be no secondary title available for Camilla to take in order for her to retain a title with Princess in it; she will need to be made a princess in her own right if she is to be styled princess consort?! Am I there yet, has the penny dropped or am I still confused??
Yes. This has been discussed in depth in the Questions about British titles and styles thread. As wives take their titles and styles from their husbands, in order for Camilla to be styled as Princess, Charles would have to have a princely title. As King he wouldn't so the only way Camilla can be titled or styled as Princess Consort would be for her to be created a princess in her own right. Check out the thread as there is some really good discussion there on this subject. Questions about British Styles and Titles
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