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  #1041  
Old 07-19-2012, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
To bring Diana into the equation is unecessary and not constructive for discussion. It could be considered as provocation for conversational discord as there is never a conversation regarding all three that ever ends politely. Sad, but true.



If it doesn't, then it should imo. I'm sure there is someone who is better informed than I to answer your question :)
Thank you, Madame Royale. I find this topic very interesting yet fraught with much emotion and strong conflicting opinions.
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  #1042  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:03 PM
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You're not wrong, Royal Newbie.

There seems very little middle ground on the matter. Personally, I'm really quite moderate in my views as I'm not the type of person who feels a need to idolize one and ridicule the other. I really like Camilla. I find her to be a particularly warm and engaging individual (from afar, anyway).

I think people, in general, need to learn to take more positives out of life. While any such decision may seem unfairly demoting to many, I see it as a significant honour, even if it wasn't initially intended as such. I think more good than harm would come of it and I truly believe Camilla would continue to flourish in the role. Perhaps (?) even more so than in the constricts of the traditional norm. They will no doubt be considerably aged by the time Charles becomes King and at a time when people would be forgiven for starting to slow down, so to speak, they will be somewhat expected to maintain a level of social engagement not dissimilar to what we see of them now. If not more more.
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  #1043  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:12 PM
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Look, I have never been a fan of Camilla, but she is Charles' wife and so she should be queen consort. They love each other for many years and to that end it is admirable. How they got to here, no longer matters. It is all over. How the British feel, is their own "real concern." For them it is not a matter of opinion.
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  #1044  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:16 PM
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I think the British will demean themselves in the eyes of the world (that cares about such things) if they do not honor their own traditions and abide by the rules that say Camilla will be Queen Consort when Charles is King.
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  #1045  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:22 PM
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I don't think the British system would be demeaned at all. Technically speaking as a Brit, that is. I am but one opinion though, naturally.

Furthermore, I see it as being an entirely British matter be it with some degree of Commonwealth realm involvement. As for any other nation, I think glass houses should not cast stones where judgement on internal matters of state are concerned.
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  #1046  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:55 PM
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I think this whole debate is pretty moot. There is no doubt in my mind she will be Queen Consort. The people are liking what the see in Camilla, and quite frankly, many people have simply moved on.
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  #1047  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:58 PM
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What will be will be. Whatever the granted or maintained title, Camilla will in my opinion, remain a welcome asset.
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  #1048  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cdngirl View Post
I think this whole debate is pretty moot. There is no doubt in my mind she will be Queen Consort. The people are liking what the see in Camilla, and quite frankly, many people have simply moved on.
Again, which 'people are liking what they see'? And may I ask what evidence you are basing this on? I just cited a poll in an internationally recognised magazine in a comemorative issue for the Diamond Jubilee still on the stands. Certainly on a heavily moderated board, one might think so....but whose car was it that was attacked by the crowd? Have you looked on some unmoderated forums or for that matter on you tube? That might be an eye opener...
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  #1049  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:37 PM
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I dont think anyone can cotton wool the fact that a great deal of people who respond to editorial articles appear to speak rather poorly of Camilla. As such, I concede that I read more negative opinions than I do positive in this regard.

They seem to me as being opinions substantiated by prejudice and willful ignorance much of the time, but such opinions still represent a degree of public sentiment nonetheless.

I would suggest that for every person who celebrates the Duchess you're likely to find 3 that either don't like her or care nothing for her at all. And that is being realistic imo.

In my every day life, I've not come across too many people who share my pleasant opinion of her, be it either here in Australia or in Britain. And although she is accorded a significant degree of acceptance (tolerance ?) in her capacity as Charles' wife, I don't think I can justly attest to there being any significant sway in support of Camilla, the person.
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  #1050  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:51 PM
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Again, which 'people are liking what they see'? And may I ask what evidence you are basing this on? I just cited a poll in an internationally recognised magazine in a comemorative issue for the Diamond Jubilee still on the stands.
I just tried researching the method and population base upon which this much vaunted poll was based. Funny, for all the percentages thrown around, the one thing omitted was precisely that information.

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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
....but whose car was it that was attacked by the crowd?
Oh good grief, not that old chestnut again! It was established both by the Police and in the Courts of Law, that the little rioting darlings hadn't a clue anyone of importance was coming their way let alone who it was. Needless to say, this subject has been discussed at length, not least on this forum. Please cease trying to rewrite history. It is tedious!

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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Have you looked on some unmoderated forums or for that matter on you tube? That might be an eye opener...
There are an astonishing number of truly sick units out there which is why most normal forum users avoid wallowing in filth.
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  #1051  
Old 07-19-2012, 11:13 PM
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There are an astonishing number of truly sick units out there which is why most normal forum users avoid wallowing in filth.
Could not have said it better myself. There is one person on Youtube who goes on every video about The Duchess or the POW and writes the most disgusting vile 'filth'. IMO you cannot form an opinion based on youtube/internet.

My point was scooter, is that time is moving on. Children growing up who really don't care or don't know anything about the history. I am just a bit older than PWilliam. I don't care about the history. I see it for what is it, skewed and one sided. Nothing EVER is just black and white. People move on, you forgive, you live your life the best you can. YOU MOVE ON!
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  #1052  
Old 07-19-2012, 11:19 PM
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I personally think that Charles and Camilla make a wonderful couple, but I think it's true that most people don't think so. Most people however, don't follow royalty in the same way we do and don't see the tremendous support of Camilla and how she has benefited Charles and the family. It's a shame to me, but there it is.

What will allow Charles to take the throne, and Camilla to be at his side as legally the Queen but known by another title if the fact that MOST Britons and other members of the Commonwealth are looking forward to William and Kate. They're the real stars to most people. But I also think, and we're starting to see it now, is the very serious PR campaign to continue boosting Camilla's image.

It's also true (and I have mentioned this) that as time goes on, younger people don't really know who Diana was. 10 years from now and those under 25 will not even have been alive when Diana died, and how many others would have been just children? If Charles has his parents' and grandmother's longevity (and no reason to think he won't) he'll simply outlive having a majority who oppose his taking the throne.
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  #1053  
Old 07-20-2012, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdngirl View Post
Could not have said it better myself. There is one person on Youtube who goes on every video about The Duchess or the POW and writes the most disgusting vile 'filth'. IMO you cannot form an opinion based on youtube/internet.

My point was scooter, is that time is moving on. Children growing up who really don't care or don't know anything about the history. I am just a bit older than PWilliam. I don't care about the history. I see it for what is it, skewed and one sided. Nothing EVER is just black and white. People move on, you forgive, you live your life the best you can. YOU MOVE ON!
I think that these concepts are simply foreign to some people, and what I find rather amusing, is that the people who matter seem to have no issues with them whatsoever. I think that if William and Harry (and the rest of the Royal Family) were able to look past everything, then the public shouldn't be sitting there, and holding a grudge. It's not healthy to dwell on something that cannot be changed. You cannot turn back time, and fix whatever it is that is upsetting you today. Better to move on, and realize that the person who's right in front of you has a great deal to offer and deserves to be given a chance. Again, if the sons of the Prince of Wales were able to do this (and are doing it still), then there's no reason for the rest of us to obsess over 'what has been'.
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  #1054  
Old 07-20-2012, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Daria_S View Post
I think that these concepts are simply foreign to some people, and what I find rather amusing, is that the people who matter seem to have no issues with them whatsoever. I think that if William and Harry (and the rest of the Royal Family) were able to look past everything, then the public shouldn't be sitting there, and holding a grudge. It's not healthy to dwell on something that cannot be changed. You cannot turn back time, and fix whatever it is that is upsetting you today. Better to move on, and realize that the person who's right in front of you has a great deal to offer and deserves to be given a chance. Again, if the sons of the Prince of Wales were able to do this (and are doing it still), then there's no reason for the rest of us to obsess over 'what has been'.
Yes, Diana's own children are past this, and they are the ones who were on the frontlines. That was their mother, for crying out loud, but a few tabloid readers seem to be more emotionally invested, and suffer more angst over this than the two of them. That really tells me something. It really makes me shake my head when that same tabloid crown insists "the Palace made them say those things." I don't think so, first of all, and even if there was some pressure, they would not have expressed it in as glowing terms as they did if it were untrue. There's nothing in the boys' body language to suggest any of it were untrue.
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  #1055  
Old 07-20-2012, 09:27 AM
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Of course Camilla will be Queen, of that I have no doubt. Charles announced an intended course of action in 2005 - that Camilla would be 'Princess Consort'. It's 7 years on now, and intended courses of action change all the time.

I suspect that, after the Queen's death, with the nation uniting in genuine grief and sympathy for the RF, a planted question will be asked in Prime Minister's Questions probably by a monarchist Conservative MP along the lines of 'Does the PM agree with me that, given the Duchess of Cornwall's X years of dedicated service to our late much-loved Queen and the nation as a whole, that she should take her rightful place alongside our new King at his coronation and henceforth be known as 'HM Queen Camilla'?'. All the PM needs to do is say that he agrees with his honourable friend, that Camilla has demonstrated her valuable support of our new King over the years, and that she should not be denied her rightful title of Queen. Cue the usual cries of 'hear, hear' from the mostly monarchist members. These sorts of planted questions, whether overtly planned or not, are very common in PMQs. That would be the signal for King Charles III to announce a change to his earlier intention that Camilla be 'Princess Consort'.

David Starkey has said the biggest ally that monarchies have in trying to survive into the future in inertia. Will everyone love the idea of Queen Camilla? No. Did everyone love the idea of Camilla marrying Charles in the first place? No. But ultimately, we've all got more pressing issues to worry about.
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  #1056  
Old 07-20-2012, 12:39 PM
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Hello I have a question, I'm not sure if this is the place to post it. Is it true in 1994 Camilla's father warned Charles to stay away from her and her daughter Laura also screamed at Charles on the phone to stay away from Camilla?
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  #1057  
Old 07-20-2012, 12:50 PM
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Hello I have a question, I'm not sure if this is the place to post it. Is it true in 1994 Camilla's father warned Charles to stay away from her and her daughter Laura also screamed at Charles on the phone to stay away from Camilla?
I have never heard that Major Shand or Laura uttered one word to the media or an authorized biographer about their feelings of Charles' and Camilla's relationship. Thus no first hand source can exist for that story - thus probably made up or at least not proven.
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  #1058  
Old 07-20-2012, 01:22 PM
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I have never heard that Major Shand or Laura uttered one word to the media or an authorized biographer about their feelings of Charles' and Camilla's relationship. Thus no first hand source can exist for that story - thus probably made up or at least not proven.
Actually I think both Tom and Laura have always had quite a good relationship with Charles. In fact, Charles is Tom Parker-Bowles godfather.
Recently in an interview, Tom had this to say:

" I know I probably shouldn’t ask, but is it true that he calls Prince Charles, his stepfather, Sir?

“Oh yes,” he says heartily. “But it’s not any sort of obligation, it’s just a nickname really, like Bob or Jim. When we were little, my mother would tell my sister and I that Sir was coming to visit, so the name stuck and to call him anything else would be very odd and unnatural.”


Prince Charles? I still call him Sir - Telegraph


It really seems like everyone gets along and everyone's happy with the way things are.
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  #1059  
Old 07-20-2012, 07:38 PM
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Yes, Diana's own children are past this, and they are the ones who were on the frontlines. That was their mother, for crying out loud, but a few tabloid readers seem to be more emotionally invested, and suffer more angst over this than the two of them. That really tells me something. It really makes me shake my head when that same tabloid crown insists "the Palace made them say those things." I don't think so, first of all, and even if there was some pressure, they would not have expressed it in as glowing terms as they did if it were untrue. There's nothing in the boys' body language to suggest any of it were untrue.
I think William and Harry are not the types to be 'told' what to say. They have enough sense to not embarrass themselves or their family, and the notion that the Palace would dictate what they should say in regards to their father's wife is nothing but ridiculous (or course the DM and other tabloids don't care if they come off looking like idiots, but that's besides the point). I feel that if either one of these men didn't feel respect towards Camila or disliked her in any way, they would not have said it outright, but would have been less than enthusiastic in terms of praising her.
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  #1060  
Old 07-20-2012, 11:09 PM
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Of course Camilla will be Queen, of that I have no doubt. Charles announced an intended course of action in 2005 - that Camilla would be 'Princess Consort'. It's 7 years on now, and intended courses of action change all the time.

I suspect that, after the Queen's death, with the nation uniting in genuine grief and sympathy for the RF, a planted question will be asked in Prime Minister's Questions probably by a monarchist Conservative MP along the lines of 'Does the PM agree with me that, given the Duchess of Cornwall's X years of dedicated service to our late much-loved Queen and the nation as a whole, that she should take her rightful place alongside our new King at his coronation and henceforth be known as 'HM Queen Camilla'?'. All the PM needs to do is say that he agrees with his honourable friend, that Camilla has demonstrated her valuable support of our new King over the years, and that she should not be denied her rightful title of Queen. Cue the usual cries of 'hear, hear' from the mostly monarchist members. These sorts of planted questions, whether overtly planned or not, are very common in PMQs. That would be the signal for King Charles III to announce a change to his earlier intention that Camilla be 'Princess Consort'.

David Starkey has said the biggest ally that monarchies have in trying to survive into the future in inertia. Will everyone love the idea of Queen Camilla? No. Did everyone love the idea of Camilla marrying Charles in the first place? No. But ultimately, we've all got more pressing issues to worry about.
Regardless of what you have doubts or suspitions or personal hopes about, this is all complete speculation and wishful thinking, unsupported by any facts or statistics or official statements from the BRF. At present, the official position is that she will be known as the Princess Consort, NOT Queen Camilla, regardless of how many years they are married at the time of QEII death. The women in the family seem to live to be a ripe old age. However,given how young the Windsor men have died historically ....George V 61, George VI 57, Edward VII 69.... it may be a moot point.
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