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  #21  
Old 08-29-2007, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rebafan81 View Post
On Camilla, I understand she wanted to be like her Great grandmother and be the mistress to the Prince of Wales, no matter what and I also hear that Andrew was never faithful to Camilla anyways. It is a big mess no matter who tries to unravel it and no one was a winner in this one.
To be 30 years only a mistress is hard to bear. If you want to have fun and get a little popularity or just do it for your ego, than it wouldn´t take so long. Remember what Camilla had to get through. But she always stood by her prince. And watch how she is looking at him until today. And remember the day the marriage of them was announced. She was so radiant in her happiness, you could see it came from the depth of her heart. Only because of her great-grandmother?? It´s because of love.
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  #22  
Old 08-29-2007, 12:47 PM
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I remember the Prince of Wales was goaded by Lord Moutbatten to marry his granddaughter, Amanda Knatchbull...but allowed Charles to carry on with Camilla until Amanda reached a marriageable age. I am sure the Queen Mother was not exactly thrilled with the bloodline Amanda brought to the Windsors via Edwina Ashley, her grandmother and wife of Lord Mountbatten...

Nigel Dempster wrote an oblique book "Behind Palace Walls" about the machinations the Queen Mum and her friend, Lady Fermoy alledgely employed so the focus would be upon Lady Diana Spencer, whose Armenian blood was sufficiently diluted so the future King of England's blood would not be marred as was the views of previously uniformed generations. (ahem)
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  #23  
Old 08-29-2007, 12:59 PM
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What was wrong with Edwina Ashley?

None the less, you see he didn't marry her either. Hence the Queen Mum must have gotten her way again.
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  #24  
Old 08-29-2007, 01:15 PM
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What was wrong with Edwina Ashley?
Promiscuous. Partly Jewish.

On the other hand, it could just be that the Queen Mother didn't care for Mountbatten's influence over Charles and knew that if Charles married a Mountbatten granddaughter, that influence wasn't going to diminish.
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  #25  
Old 08-29-2007, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by kimebear View Post
I think it is more of a question of should he have been allowed to marry Camilla earlier and the answer is yes. But royal heirs weren't allowed to marry young woman of a certain reputation (whatever that really was) at the time so a suitable wife was found for him. He couldn't even bring himself to say that he was in love with Diana at their engagement and he never brought himself to the marriage since his heart was already spoken for. A bit unfair, IMO.

It wasn't really about Diana. Since he couldn't originally marry Camilla, I don't think Charles really cared who he married as long as she fawned over him or a better attempt would have been made to find someone of a suitable pedigree that he could have more in common with and fall in love with. There were no shortages of available foreign princesses and noble British ladies at the time.
I think 'what it means' is that she had been having a sexual realationship with APB for 7 years before she married him. I believe she also 'dated' a few others. It was the 70s so it's not surprising. But it wasnt exactly a secret. Did Mountbatten not comment that Camilla was 'excellent mistress material'? There wasn't much cross ever to Princess mode from there back then. I also agree that Charles was just looking for a suitable girl to produce the heir and the spare. He quoted as such in the Dimbleby authorised biography. Dynastic, yes, but also very coldly calculated. It could just as easily been the Duke of Grosvenor's daughter, whom he also dated. As far as QEQM, I have read many times that the subject of Charles and Camilla marrying could not be even brought up until she died, even after Diana's death. The whole reason that She was queen was predicated on the fact that Edward was not allowed to marry his divorced mistress. And was already KING. If she were still alive I doubt Charles and Camilla would be married now.
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  #26  
Old 08-29-2007, 01:55 PM
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to pinkie40

Quote:
.... Lady Diana Spencer, whose Armenian blood was sufficiently diluted so the future King of England's blood would not be marred as was the views of previously uniformed generations. (ahem)
The Spencers and Armenian blood..? What was wrong with Armenian blood?
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  #27  
Old 08-29-2007, 02:17 PM
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Don't take offense, as I am sure pinkie did not mean it the way that you seem to be taking it. That might have been the thinking of the RF at that time when everything "British" was better. In fact, she said so, so I would advise you to read more carefully in the future.
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  #28  
Old 08-29-2007, 02:25 PM
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Charles and Camilla are soulmates and born to love each other.
If you ever meet a man/woman and you feel this way then love will always find a way and will win.
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  #29  
Old 08-29-2007, 02:34 PM
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Don't take offense, as I am sure pinkie did not mean it the way that you seem to be taking it. That might have been the thinking of the RF at that time when everything "British" was better. In fact, she said so, so I would advise you to read more carefully in the future.
Actually I am not Armenian and, thus, am not offended at all. I just wanted her to proivde further explanations or clarifications. Upon reading her post, I have been surprised that the Spencers might have had Armenian blood. That is all.
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  #30  
Old 08-29-2007, 02:45 PM
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Well, according to one source, it was actually Indian blood and it was incorrectly stated as being Armenian because that was thought to be more acceptable. So apparently there's nothing at all wrong with Armenian blood.
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  #31  
Old 08-29-2007, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
I think 'what it means' is that she had been having a sexual realationship with APB for 7 years before she married him. I believe she also 'dated' a few others.
What it meant was that she was not a virgin. I believe Mountbatten and the QM, along with Fermoy, (separately), plotted right from the start, who they wanted Charles to marry in order to secure their hold over him and his bride. I also believe that Mountbatten 'spoke' to Camilla and made it clear that he would not allow Charles to marry her, he probably raised the spectre of who her gt grandfather might be and how dangerous that could be for any children they might have, that if she loved the prince, she would use the opportunity while he was at sea, to put herself out of his reach. I know it has been put about by a few authors that Camilla had not been dating APB for 7 years, but was he not dating Anne?
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  #32  
Old 08-29-2007, 04:06 PM
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I think that this is such a shame. Charles should have been able to marry who he wanted. This just goes to show the mind set of some in the RF. If Charles loved Camilla that much, no one should have step in his way. The future of the RF would have been so much better. Let just hope that William and Harry will be able to marry just who that want!!!
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  #33  
Old 08-29-2007, 06:03 PM
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If you have not found out, you soon will by reading the history books, that arranged marriages in this class are still done today. Albeit, not arranged in the old fashioned way, but more in the way of telling someone, no she is not suitable.. or is she really prepared for the life you will give her... by placing doubt I suppose.
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  #34  
Old 08-29-2007, 06:16 PM
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What it meant was that she was not a virgin. I believe Mountbatten and the QM, along with Fermoy, (separately), plotted right from the start, who they wanted Charles to marry in order to secure their hold over him and his bride. I also believe that Mountbatten 'spoke' to Camilla and made it clear that he would not allow Charles to marry her, he probably raised the spectre of who her grandfather might be and how dangerous that could be for any children they might have, that if she loved the prince, she would use the opportunity while he was at sea, to put herself out of his reach. I know it has been put about by a few authors that Camilla had not been dating APB for 7 years, but was he not dating Anne?
I dont know that there is any genetic reason that 3rd cousins should not marry. Tis degree of relativity (probobly not the word) is not a all illeagal. In fact I think if you look at the levels of consanguinity between many royal spouses is perfectly ok. Certainly many royal houses have nieces marrying uncles etc. Look, I think he should have married Camilla the first time through. The fact that he didnt for what ever reason caused a lot of heartache for all the parties concerned. But i would be hard pressed to believe that it was they were 3rd cousins. Camilla's previous 'experience' given the mood of the country at the time was a problem, and I would believe that QEQM had an issue with the alleged illegitimate offspring of Kingie and Alice had a part to play. And from various books, I get them impression that APB was playing both sides of the fence with Camilla and Anne. We could in fact sell this to Hollywood as an R rated evening soap!
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  #35  
Old 08-29-2007, 06:20 PM
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From books about Charles and Camilla, I think the "dating Andrew Parker Bowles for seven years" might have been correct in terms of the start and end dates of the courtship, but it doesn't mean that it was a constant state of affairs. Seems as though they both - he in particular - had other interludes during that seven-year timespan.
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  #36  
Old 08-29-2007, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
I dont know that there is any genetic reason that 3rd cousins should not marry. Tis degree of relativity (probobly not the word) is not a all illeagal. In fact I think if you look at the levels of consanguinity between many royal spouses is perfectly ok. Certainly many royal houses have nieces marrying uncles etc. Look, I think he should have married Camilla the first time through. The fact that he didnt for what ever reason caused a lot of heartache for all the parties concerned. But i would be hard pressed to believe that it was they were 3rd cousins. Camilla's previous 'experience' given the mood of the country at the time was a problem, and I would believe that QEQM had an issue with the alleged illegitimate offspring of Kingie and Alice had a part to play. And from various books, I get them impression that APB was playing both sides of the fence with Camilla and Anne. We could in fact sell this to Hollywood as an R rated evening soap!
Even with todays upper class arranged marriages, they are very careful to ensure that there is no interbreeding, I am only talking about the UK. Even though it is not illegal, it is something most families would prefer to avoid. The mood of the country in the 70's, was quite accepting, the 60's had happened after all, the pill had arrived!
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  #37  
Old 08-29-2007, 07:30 PM
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At the time, Camilla was deemed "unsuitable" because she was well-known to be quite independent and "had a past", by which they meant her boyfriends and sleeping around.

She had already met and started dating Andrew Parker-Bowles, Charles was serving in the Royal Navy and she wasn't too interested in becoming a member of the royal family. The Queen Mother and Lord Mountbatten were both lukewarm on the idea, so it ended.
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  #38  
Old 08-29-2007, 08:28 PM
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I was under the impression that Andrew was dating a couple of people (Anne among them) but the Anne/Andrew romance was never going to be serious because he is a Roman Catholic.

Andrew had a lot of affairs in the marriage prior to Camilla and Charles affair. I think Camilla did love Andrew and it was the constant cheating that took the bloom off that rose. But I agree, if Diana hadn't said something about the Charles/Camilla relationship. The Parker Bowles might have stayed married a little longer.

In the beginning of the relationship, Charles felt more for Camilla than she did for him. It wasn't until Charles and Diana's marriage started having problems than she felt the same for him.

Makes you wonder what would have happened differently if 1) APB did cheat so much thus causing Camilla to maintain a strong friendship with Charles and 2) Diana had kept her mouth shut to the press about Charles and Camilla's affiar.

Side note! Yeah! My 2000th post :)
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  #39  
Old 08-29-2007, 08:35 PM
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You are right, had Diana kept her mouth shut, Camilla still would be the other woman. Was it Andrew's fault, I doubt it. They were both seeking succor elsewhere. Camilla had a past, so to speak, like George Washington, had seen many beds. She has given Charles the love and mothering he has never had. Is it bad? Was Diana foolish? It is too late to ask. It is just sad.
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  #40  
Old 08-29-2007, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Even with todays upper class arranged marriages, they are very careful to ensure that there is no interbreeding, I am only talking about the UK. Even though it is not illegal, it is something most families would prefer to avoid. The mood of the country in the 70's, was quite accepting, the 60's had happened after all, the pill had arrived!
With the inbreeding that was rampant in every royal house in Europe or centuries (leading to things like the Habsburg jaw) C and C were virtual 'strangers' to each other compared to virtually every other historic royal match. Have you read Michael Farquhar's book A treasury of Royal Scandals? Very inormative and most often on this subject (inbreeding not C andC)! He actually posted here on the forums about 9 months ago! Well written, acurate and amusing!
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