Charles and Camilla - The Early Years (1970s)

[Zonk]

I think he dithered went away (for what six months to a year) and while he was gone she got married. He also didn't ask because of what iluv mentioned....it was suggested that because she wasn't a virgin she was unsuitable.

And honestly, if she is marrying someone else why he dithers....one would assume that they didn't think they had a chance or at least had that...where is our relationship headed speech? Plus..she is dating other people? I don't think you do that if you think someone is going to ask you to marry him. Of course Andrew Parker Bowles was also dating other people as well.

What is the saying...the rich are different from you and me?

 

[Thena]

From what I understand, Camilla had her heart set on Andrew Parker-Bowles. I don't know if she would have said yes if Charles asked at that point.

Ironically, her biggest competition for Andrew was none other than Princess Anne! Camilla appeared to have won that battle but, wow, look how it all turned out.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I think, personally, that when Charles went of to the Navy, that's when Camilla's heart changed to Andrew, if he had asked her to marry him and wait, I think she would have.

 

[Thena]

If Camilla had her heart set on Charles back then, I think she wouldn't have let his forced absence with the Navy to come between them. Instead, she focused her energies on landing Andrew.

 

[Roslyn]

The age difference between Charles and Camilla means nothing now, but I think it was of some significance when they were in their early 20s. She was older and ready to settle down, and he was dithering and heading off to sea and if he told her that he wouldn't be ready to marry till he was in his late 20s, I can understand her pursuing her relationship with Andrew. He was there and he was interested and ready to marry.

 

[EmpressRouge]

Also, Andrew is almost a decade older than Charles and Camilla. Prince or not, to a young, 20-something fun-time girl like Camilla, the older, worldly army major Andrew would have been more exciting than the shy Charles, who was just starting out his Navy career. Camilla never struck anyone as one who would marry for title (Diana was probably the opposite). I think if anything, the princely title discouraged her.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I do agree. Even today it is clear that Camilla loves Charles but would still prefer to be in the background and that the title has no real allure to her whereas Diana it was the title that attracted her more than the man in my opinion.

 

[seajat]

Title Schmytle

Diana already HAD a title, Lady Diana Spencer. Camilla is the commoner who had no title.

 

[kathl29]

Diana already HAD a title, Lady Diana Spencer. Camilla is the commoner who had no title.

As Diana did already have a title she would have been expected by her family to use it and her charm to further the family status as has happened in the aristocracy for centuries.

IMO most commoners really don't care whether they have a title or not - it is only a small number who are trying to move into a higher level of society - Camilla doesn't come across to me as a social climber.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Diana already HAD a title, Lady Diana Spencer. Camilla is the commoner who had no title.

Lady xxx was nothing special in her circle - that is who her family mixed with. But to be Princess of Wales was to top all that circle and take her to the top of the tree, above Duchesses, Countesses, Marchionesses, and Baronesses. Lady is the bottom of that tree and the Spencer family wanted higher for their girls and Diana was their pawn to get there and she had stars in her eyes at being a 'Princess'.

Within aristocratic circles marrying a person with a higher title is important but within the commoner class it doesn't matter as we are all the same.

The thing to remember was that Diana couldn't pass a title on to her children but by marrying Charles she could and that is very important to many aristrocrats - having children with a Lord/Lady or higher title.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Diana already HAD a title, Lady Diana Spencer. Camilla is the commoner who had no title.

Lady is nothing special.
They had about the same lineage, and if you really want to think about it, Camilla could be the great-granddaughter of Edward VII

 

[Cadiva]

Why do people keep going on about Camilla being older than Charles as if it's years and years? She's only one year older.

I think they were in love as young people in their 20s, that Charles was too stiffled by tradition and the influence of both his uncle and his grandmother to have gone against their wishes and that Camilla got in a huff when he went off into the Royal Navy and married APB who she was also attracted to.
Then, in later years after Charles and Diana's marriage was irretrievably over, he turned back to the woman who had always been there for him, (which I believe was as friends only while he and Diana were together).
This time there was no Mountbatten and his Grandmother was probably too frail to interfere much and Charles had grown more determined (call it spoilt or whatever you like) and refused to give Camilla up again when there was no longer a reason to.

Also, my best friend is a bloke, we've talked about all kinds of things including sexual matters and the break up of my marriage (at which he was best man as I married a guy I met through him) and we've always remained friends without risk of a personal relationship. I am also still friends with all of my ex-boyfriends, even the ones from my school days, apart from one, who moved away and we lost touch rather than we fell out.
It is perfectly possible to still love an old flame and yet no longer be IN LOVE with them. I am also really good friends with my 17-year-old schoolgirl love of my life's wife

 

[Bella76]

I am very impressed of this realistic conversation about this difficult topic. It´s great! Respect to all who posted their opinon.
I read a lot of things I can agree with.

Somewhere I´ve read Charles and Camilla only married because after all they had to. I don´t want to believe it, maybe I´m a little too romantic, but a lot of bad things would have had no sense if Charles and Camilla are not truly in love. And that would be disastrously

Only my POV.

 

[Zonk]

I believe Charles and Camilla are in love but if had the chance I think Camilla would have continued with the way things were. They were officially together but she didn't have the burdens of being a member of the British Royal Family. I think Charles always wanted to marry her post Diana.

Welcome to the Forums Bella76....the Charles and Camilla discussion has come a long way Its not perfect and we dont always agree but we try to be civil to each other.

 

[Nice Nofret]

Lady is nothing special.

Diana was the daughter of an earl .. thats quite something.. Camilla was a commoner - back in the 70th no marriagematerial for the POW; if he wasn't marrieing a princess at least it had to be an aristocrate

It was still difficult to believe when girls like Mette-Marit and divorced women like Laeticia married Crownprinces not that long ago...

 

[Iluvbertie]

Diana was the daughter of an earl .. thats quite something.. Camilla was a commoner - back in the 70th no marriagematerial for the POW; if he wasn't marrieing a princess at least it had to be an aristocrate

It was still difficult to believe when girls like Mette-Marit and divorced women like Laeticia married Crownprinces not that long ago...

The problem with Camilla wasn't her lineage but more the fact that she wasn't a virgin - she had a past. Along with that she preferred Andrew Parker-Bowles in the early 70s.

 

[Lenora]

The problem with Camilla wasn't her lineage but more the fact that she wasn't a virgin - she had a past. Along with that she preferred Andrew Parker-Bowles in the early 70s.

Were the all royal brides before Camilla virgin?It's a little unbelievable such a request

 

[Iluvbertie]

Were the all royal brides before Camilla virgin?It's a little unbelievable such a request

The Queen was as was the Queen Mum, Queen Mary, Queen Alexanrda, Queen Victoria and Queen Adelaide. I think you would almost have to go back to Henry VIII's wives to find a wife of a King or heir to the throne of Queen Regnant who wasn't a virgin on her wedding night.

This woman is to bear the next monarch and the bloodline is necessary so being a virgin was important. For some time not being a virgin was grounds for an annulment so protecting the daughters was important.

 

[scooter]

Lady is nothing special.
They had about the same lineage, and if you really want to think about it, Camilla could be the great-granddaughter of Edward VII

If Camilla is the out of wedlock great grand daughter of Edward VII, that is not of equal standing to being the legitimate daughter of an ancient Earldom, wish though some might.

 

[Iluvbertie]

If Camilla is the out of wedlock great grand daughter of Edward VII, that is not of equal standing to being the legitimate daughter of an ancient Earldom, wish though some might.

I notice that you refer to the possibility of Camilla being the descendent of an illegitimate child of a king but without mentioning that Diana (and Camilla and Sarah) all are the descendents of of an illegimate child of a King - all being descendents of Charles II and his myriad of children.

You can't denigrate one woman for her alleged ancestry without applying the same standards to all such people and thus holding illegimate descent from a King against Diana and her family as well.

Fortunately for most people it has been many years since being an illegitimate child has been held against the child and certainly not against the descendents of such a child. Neither Diana nor Camilla can be blamed if their ancestors were the product of the amorous embraces of Kings with lower born women.

 

[Zonk]

I concur Iluvbertie.

Let's cease with the use of "bastard" as it as negative implication in an unusual nasty way.

 

[Nice Nofret]

.. I still think it was both: Camilla having a past and not beeing aristocrat. The DoC is not dumb; she knew she wasn't marriage material; she knew if she wants to marry it couldn't be him. ..and appart from that, there was an attractiv man APB - in comparison to a young Charles.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I don't see why age has anything to do with it, Camilla is closer to Charles than APB.
Camilla married APB instead of Charles, that's a fact.
Whether it was because of her background or virginity, is speculation.
But it doesn't really matter.

 

[Zonk]

I don't see why age has anything to do with it, Camilla is closer to Charles than APB.
Camilla married APB instead of Charles, that's a fact.
Whether it was because of her background or virginity, is speculation.
But it doesn't really matter.

Actually, it was a pretty accurate on why Charles couldn't or didn't marry Camilla when they first dated.

It was the early 1970's and things were much different...she did have a past. Charles could have a past and she couldn't not. That much is pretty much documented by various sources in early Charles & Camilla books as well as books of Mountbatten.

She was also dating APB at the same time.

Charles dithered and went off for a couple of months for a Navy assignment. While he was gone, Camilla married Andrew.

 

[Lumutqueen]

But there are still numerous reasons, even if one is particularly accurate.
It's a solid 100% fact that Camilla married APB. No changing it now.

 

[scooter]

She was also dating APB at the same time.

Charles dithered and went off for a couple of months for a Navy assignment. While he was gone, Camilla married Andrew.

Which is why I dont buy the '30 year true love story' spin.

 

[Zonk]

Which is why I dont buy the '30 year true love story' spin.

Honestly...if has anything to do with Charles and Camilla, I don't believe you would buy it.

 

[Osipi]

Which is why I dont buy the '30 year true love story' spin.

Another factor to look at over that 30 years time span is that although not a romantic "love" affair from the time that Camilla married Andrew Parker-Bowles until his own marriage was beyond repair, Charles remained very close friends with both Camilla and Andrew and as I've mentioned before, is godfather to their eldest son Tom. They moved in the same circle and shared many similar interests. It is totally possible to have a close, loving relationship with someone and it be totally platonic. With this behind them, they really had a good foundation to build on when they discovered that they not only loved each other but were IN love with each other also. Perhaps that's why their marriage is so strong now and they are so happy with the way their lives are.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Well said. I think there was a strong bond from the beginning but when she chose Andrew and a private life Charles remained her friend and later lover until his marriage when they returned to being friends. When his marriage broke down he sought the one person who had always been there for him and they would have happily remained in that state had the affair not been made public - a private love.

I do think they have loved each other for nearly 40 years but would have been happy to have that love kept private but once made public made the public commitment to each other to make the love permanent.

 

[scooter]

Honestly...if has anything to do with Charles and Camilla, I don't believe you would buy it.

Come now. THis is well documented. Not like I made it up. Camilla was carrying on with both men. When Charles ditherered and went off on duty Camilla married PB. Hardly that she was in love with Charles to the exclusion of APB.