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  #1061  
Old 12-14-2010, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I think you have said everything beautifully.

As for Charles regnal name - yes he can choose one of his other names or any name he likes. It has been rumoured that he is, or at least has, considered George VII but we will simply have to wait and see when he becomes King.

As for Camilla - same thing. She can choose any name she likes as well.
There's certainly precedent for it. When George V ascended the throne, he asked his wife, who was styled as Victoria Mary, to choose which name she wanted as her regnal name and she chose to be Queen Mary.

However, Camilla's middle name is Rosemary, and I do prefer the sound of Queen Camilla to Queen Rosemary.
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  #1062  
Old 12-14-2010, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Thena View Post
There's certainly precedent for it. When George V ascended the throne, he asked his wife, who was styled as Victoria Mary, to choose which name she wanted as her regnal name and she chose to be Queen Mary.

However, Camilla's middle name is Rosemary, and I do prefer the sound of Queen Camilla to Queen Rosemary.

She could however chose any name so she could decide to go with say Queen Susan - totally different to her present name.
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  #1063  
Old 12-14-2010, 09:40 PM
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Thank you for the kind comments, Iluvbertie and AnnEliza. It has felt very welcoming, too.

Regarding the names, I personally think King Charles sounds classy and makes sense since he has such an established public persona with it as Prince. In a sense its been his 'working name' or 'career name' and it would make sense for it to follow him into his King-ship. I think King George sounds fuddy-duddy. (Should I duck behind the couch with that?) King Philip cannot be because of his father - and King Arthur is well, too - you know!

As for Camilla - its a hard one. I think she for sure needs to transition to another name when she becomes queen, to establish herself in the role. Queen Rose? No. But Queen Mary would be nice, plenty of those, very traditional. Though it might be odd for Charles having his wife with his great-grandmother's name, ya think? I like Queen Rosemary - sounds very medieval - Queen of the May and all that. Just looked up the name Camilla - has a relationship to the name Marguerite - Queen Marguerite? Though Queen Camilla has a noble lineage with Virgil - According to tradition, recorded by the Roman poet Virgil, Camilla was the name of a warrior maiden, Queen of the Volscians, who fought in the army of Aeneas. So it's a name with noble antecedents. Queen Camilla might be just the ticket - unique, an individual, of the times!
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  #1064  
Old 12-15-2010, 02:07 AM
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I cannot see the sense in Camilla being known by any other name which is not her given name. Establishing herself in her role as consort has little to do with her name and changing it will not benefit her role or her public image at all. In the 21st century, how could it be expected that it should? People are not so feeble minded.

It doesn't change a thing except that a woman who has her entire life been known as Camilla should then, for no logical reason, be known as something else.
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  #1065  
Old 12-15-2010, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I cannot see the sense in Camilla being known by any other name which is not her given name. Establishing herself in her role as consort has little to do with her name and changing it will not benefit her role or her public image at all. In the 21st century, how could it be expected that it should? People are not so feeble minded.

It doesn't change a thing except that a woman who has her entire life been known as Camilla should then, for no logical reason, be known as something else.
I agree -- I hope they will be known as King Charles and Queen Camilla.
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  #1066  
Old 12-16-2010, 11:52 AM
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I agree -- I hope they will be known as King Charles and Queen Camilla.
I am very happy to second that.

Camilla has done a wonderful job as a royal consort.

As regards Camilla's title following Charles' accession to the throne, there is a simple principle at play: if Camilla is good enough to be Charles' wife, she is good enough to the Queen.
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  #1067  
Old 12-16-2010, 12:20 PM
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I am very happy to second that.

Camilla has done a wonderful job as a royal consort.

As regards Camilla's title following Charles' accession to the throne, there is a simple principle at play: if Camilla is good enough to be Charles' wife, she is good enough to the Queen.
Yes, I agree with that, and besides, it's completely unprecedented for the wife of the King to be a Princess Consort. I think it's rather weird that it's stated on the website that she will be known as that. I hope that statement just quietly disappears one day off the website.
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  #1068  
Old 12-16-2010, 12:33 PM
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No, it is not unprecedented. By law, Crown Princess Maxima of Netherlands will be Princess Consort, but not Queen Maxima. The Clarence House appears to be clumsy playing the court games and wording the situations.
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  #1069  
Old 12-16-2010, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
No, it is not unprecedented. By law, Crown Princess Maxima of Netherlands will be Princess Consort, but not Queen Maxima. The Clarence House appears to be clumsy playing the court games and wording the situations.
I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant it was unprecedented in the British Royal Family.
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  #1070  
Old 12-16-2010, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
No, it is not unprecedented. By law, Crown Princess Maxima of Netherlands will be Princess Consort, but not Queen Maxima. The Clarence House appears to be clumsy playing the court games and wording the situations.
I agree. If they would have been honest from the start this would not happened, but I think they feared that if they had told the truth then the public would not have approved. Personally speaking I think those that like them will continue to do so regardless of the titles and those that don't well...you get the point.
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  #1071  
Old 12-16-2010, 04:17 PM
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I agree. If they would have been honest from the start this would not happened, but I think they feared that if they had told the truth then the public would not have approved. Personally speaking I think those that like them will continue to do so regardless of the titles and those that don't well...you get the point.


I think they have been honest. The intention then, as it still is, is that she will be known as Princess Consort.

However, that intention may change in the future to be that she will be known as Queen Consort.

To say they weren't honest from the start is simply unfair, unless you have concrete evidence that all along the intention was that she would be Queen.

There is a difference between what the official intention is and what Charles would like as well. It would be right to say that all along Charles has wanted Camilla to be his Queen but that is normal for any man who loves his wife - that she would take his titles in full. However Charles, more than anyone, knows the way the public took to his first wife and that Camilla wouldn't be accepted that way and thus realises that the time isn't right for a change in the stated intention.

If the Queen died tomorrow I think Camilla would be Princess Consort but if the Queen survives another 10 years then she could become Queen.
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  #1072  
Old 12-16-2010, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post

If the Queen died tomorrow I think Camilla would be Princess Consort but if the Queen survives another 10 years then she could become Queen.
Hmmm. If the Queen died tomorrow, Camilla would be Queen Consort, and King Charles would have to sign off on legislation demoting his beloved wife. It would have to be rushed through Parliament with unseemly haste before everyone got used to her being Queen. Is that likely to happen? Maybe, but I tend to think not.

Of course maybe that legislation has been drafted already and is waiting the fateful monent, but if it's drafted wouldn't it just be put through now? What are they waiting for?
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  #1073  
Old 12-16-2010, 07:05 PM
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Hmmm. If the Queen died tomorrow, Camilla would be Queen Consort, and King Charles would have to sign off on legislation demoting his beloved wife. It would have to be rushed through Parliament with unseemly haste before everyone got used to her being Queen. Is that likely to happen? Maybe, but I tend to think not.

Of course maybe that legislation has been drafted already and is waiting the fateful monent, but if it's drafted wouldn't it just be put through now? What are they waiting for?
I really wonder if they just would quietly remove that statement from the web page and in the all the events of the Queen's funeral and the new King's accession and planning of the coronation, they would just call Camilla the Queen and trust that most would accept it. I agree that I can't see them rushing through legislation at the last minute to demote her.
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  #1074  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AnnEliza View Post
I really wonder if they just would quietly remove that statement from the web page and in the all the events of the Queen's funeral and the new King's accession and planning of the coronation, they would just call Camilla the Queen and trust that most would accept it. I agree that I can't see them rushing through legislation at the last minute to demote her.
I feel sure that there would be quite a large group that would not accept it. If that time were to coincide with a moment like the other night with the rioters there might be a serious problem on a number of levels. I also think that Charles was being very disingenuous with the whole 'it is intended' bit, as evidenced by not following up with the legislation and his recent interview. May QEII live to be 200.
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  #1075  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Hmmm. If the Queen died tomorrow, Camilla would be Queen Consort, and King Charles would have to sign off on legislation demoting his beloved wife. It would have to be rushed through Parliament with unseemly haste before everyone got used to her being Queen. Is that likely to happen? Maybe, but I tend to think not.

Of course maybe that legislation has been drafted already and is waiting the fateful monent, but if it's drafted wouldn't it just be put through now? What are they waiting for?

No one has ever suggested that she wouldn't be Queen Consort in fact, just as she is Princess of Wales. This was confirmed in parliament in the week leading up to the wedding.

The necessity for legislation has been mentioned but not confirmed.

It could very simply be that on the day in question the Princess Consort title starts being used with no announcement etc being made.

We will simply have to wait and see what happens.

Charles has always made it known that he wants her crowned beside him as his Queen but that doesn't change the official line from CH and BP is still that she will be Princess Consort - so Charles has a personal preference and an official line and he will wait and see when the time comes.
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  #1076  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:34 PM
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You're right in that we will just have to wait and see, however the difference is that Charles' wife is Duchess as Cornwall as well as being Princess of Wales, so being known by one of the lesser titles does not require any positive steps. The difference with Princess Consort is that once Charles is King, Camilla will be Queen, and there will be no secondary titles for her to use. Princess Consort is a fictional title at this stage; there is no legal foundation for it. I don't know whether it can be done by Letters Patent or requires legislation, but it does require some active step to formalise the title.

Of course anyone can call themselves whatever name they like as long as it's not done to defraud, etc., and there's nothing to stop Camilla calling herself Princess Consort, if she wants it and Charles agrees. The difficulty I foresee is that those who are vehmently opposed to Camilla being Queen would jump up and down and make a fuss and make things difficult for Charles and Camilla and the government.

ETA Scooter has a point when she says a large group would not be happy about it, and if it all occurred in at a time like when there were protests such as occurred the other night, things could escalate and get quite nasty.
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  #1077  
Old 12-16-2010, 11:00 PM
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I feel sure that there would be quite a large group that would not accept it. If that time were to coincide with a moment like the other night with the rioters there might be a serious problem on a number of levels. I also think that Charles was being very disingenuous with the whole 'it is intended' bit, as evidenced by not following up with the legislation and his recent interview. May QEII live to be 200.
As per usual you have tried to rewrite history. The riots of last week had nothing to do with any member of the BRF but rather with Parliament for raising University fees or, as has become apparent, an opportunity for yobs and professional agitators to fuel violence. For you to imply that it did is to be disengenuous in the extreme. It is a total canard as is your statement, that you only thought Charles was being disingenuous "with the whole 'it is intended' bit", as you feel the need to cite evidence to support your "thought".

I hate to break it to you Scooter, but your education is a little deficient when it comes to a Constitutional Monarchy. Kings, Queens, Princes and Princesses do not make legislation. It is Parliament which drafts, debates, passes or loses legislation. The Monarch merely signs it into law.
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  #1078  
Old 12-16-2010, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
You're right in that we will just have to wait and see, however the difference is that Charles' wife is Duchess as Cornwall as well as being Princess of Wales, so being known by one of the lesser titles does not require any positive steps. The difference with Princess Consort is that once Charles is King, Camilla will be Queen, and there will be no secondary titles for her to use. Princess Consort is a fictional title at this stage; there is no legal foundation for it. I don't know whether it can be done by Letters Patent or requires legislation, but it does require some active step to formalise the title.

Of course anyone can call themselves whatever name they like as long as it's not done to defraud, etc., and there's nothing to stop Camilla calling herself Princess Consort, if she wants it and Charles agrees. The difficulty I foresee is that those who are vehmently opposed to Camilla being Queen would jump up and down and make a fuss and make things difficult for Charles and Camilla and the government.

ETA Scooter has a point when she says a large group would not be happy about it, and if it all occurred in at a time like when there were protests such as occurred the other night, things could escalate and get quite nasty.

All these arguments have been discussed over and over again and all we can really say is that officially the line is still that the intention is that she will be known as the Princess Consort and that everyone, including the government acknowledge that legally she will be Queen Consort the instant the Queen dies.

We will simply have to wait and see what the circumstances are at the time.
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  #1079  
Old 12-16-2010, 11:14 PM
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As per usual you have tried to rewrite history. The riots of last week had nothing to do with any member of the BRF but rather with Parliament for raising University fees or, as has become apparent, an opportunity for yobs and professional agitators to fuel violence. For you to imply that it did is to be disengenuous in the extreme. It is a total canard as is your statement, that you only thought Charles was being disingenuous "with the whole 'it is intended' bit", as you feel the need to cite evidence to support your "thought".

I hate to break it to you Scooter, but your education is a little deficient when it comes to a Constitutional Monarchy. Kings, Queens, Princes and Princesses do not make legislation. It is Parliament which drafts, debates, passes or loses legislation. The Monarch merely signs it into law.
You missed my point entirely. If the moment in time that Charles announces 'Queen Camilla' happens to coincide with a moment of serious unrest for whatever reson there could easily be a perfect storm of unhappiness leading to a shedding of the monarchy all together. Last time in history the words 'off with their heads' were chanted at a royal it didnt end well. And thank you for your thoughts on my education, MARG. I shall be sure to ask for the tuition back from Harvard as it was apparently a complete waste.
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  #1080  
Old 12-16-2010, 11:26 PM
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Camilla will be Queen the moment our beloved Soveriegn draws her last breath. I think a nation and Commonwealth in mourning are hardly going to be in the mood to riot about anything at all let alone the immediate members of Her Majesty's family.
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