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  #1041  
Old 12-02-2010, 06:25 AM
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There was some debate and conversation about it in the Royal Ascot threads on TRF, you may want to trawl back and find them. I have no idea whether Charles was close by or not, but I think this caricature of Anne refusing of recognise the position of Camilla has probably gone further than it should have. Lets not forget that most senior members of the BRF are firm followers of the protocal that surrounds them.
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  #1042  
Old 12-02-2010, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
She isn't a Princess.

.
Who isn't a Princess?
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  #1043  
Old 12-02-2010, 06:27 AM
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Camilla, you said Princess Anne curtseyed to Princess Camilla.

Rosyln, I assume this

Quote:
Camilla doesn't have to be a princess for others to have to curtsey to her. If Charles is present, just about everyone has to curtsey to his wife, who shares his status on the occasion, and his status is second only to the Monarch.
was in response to my Princess comment?

I didn't mean that no one could curtsey to her because she isn't a Princess in her own right. I was commenting on the fact that it is incorrect to call her a Princess, when she isn't.
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  #1044  
Old 12-02-2010, 06:54 AM
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Is Camilla not the Princess of Wales? Just because she does not use it as her primary title does not stop her from being the Princess of Wales.
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  #1045  
Old 12-02-2010, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Is Camilla not the Princess of Wales? Just because she does not use it as her primary title does not stop her from being the Princess of Wales.
If wish to refer to her as Princess of Wales. Then it should be Camilla, The Princess of Wales.
She isn't a Princess in her own right, so she cannot be called Princess Camilla.
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  #1046  
Old 12-02-2010, 08:04 AM
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I think Camilla Parker-Bowles is an uncommon commoner.She is the great great granddaughter of Mrs Kepple,long time misterss of Edward VII ,she is descended directly from Charles II(illegitimate line).
She is as well Princess of Wales(even thoug she chose not to use this title).
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  #1047  
Old 12-02-2010, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
If wish to refer to her as Princess of Wales. Then it should be Camilla, The Princess of Wales.
She isn't a Princess in her own right, so she cannot be called Princess Camilla.
No, she is not Camilla, The Princess of Wales nor is she Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall. She is The Princess of Wales,(and THE Duchess of Cornwall) there are no other princesses of Wales currently alive, there is no need to qualify which princess of Wales she is by including her first name.

The style Diana, Princess of Wales is for a divorced or widowed wife of the Prince of Wales. Since Camilla is the current Princess of Wales, her name is not used at all!
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  #1048  
Old 12-02-2010, 08:55 AM
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Well if we say Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall. Camilla, The Princess of Wales seems to apply as well.

If you really want her name it's Her Royal Highness The Princess Charles Philip Arthur George, Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness of Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, Princess of Scotland.

She still isn't Princess Camilla.

But enough about names.
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  #1049  
Old 12-02-2010, 09:22 AM
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Let's move on.
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  #1050  
Old 12-14-2010, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I agree with you that there's a lot of different circumstances as to why things did go as they did. What I saw too was something different perhaps than a grand love affair at the get go that never had a chance. When Charles and Camilla first met, they did connect right away but at that time they both were thinking quite differently than a forever kind of love. Camilla wanted Andrew. Charles fell for Camilla but knew at that time that it was mostly a no go and he had duties to fulfill. What truly made theirs a love story is that even with her being married to Andrew (I've heard it stated several places that it was an open marriage) and raising a family, Camilla and Charles remained as the best of friends to the point that he was godfather to their first born son. I think Diana if she'd given herself the chance to become friends with Camilla, things might have gone differently. I think Diana was more intimidated by the intimacy of friendship that Charles shared with the Parker-Bowles and with Camilla mostly. For a 19-20 year old, the idea that a platonic relationship could exist between a man and a woman is like believing the earth is flat. We have yet to hear of any "fooling around" done in Camilla's marriage to Andrew before Charles married Diana. I do believe that Charles did stick to his wedding vows and marriage until as was stated "the marriage irretrievably fell apart". Diana was jealous of the intimacy of friendship mostly

I agree it was a comedy of errors and grossly overplayed as a bad paperback novel. In the long run, over a span of 40 more or less years, whether dating, married to others and close friends, then paramours and then husband and wife, they have a long standing relationship that has withstood the test of time and trials.
Osipi, you have said it perfectly. I see exactly the same thing. Beautifully summarized.

Diana was jealous of a seasoned friendship. She was too young and inexperienced to comprehend it. What is surprising is that she should have not understood the nature of Charles' life prior to her arrival on the scene - but I am of the opinion she did and then very wrongly assumed that her presence meant that she 'owned' Charles and could dictate to him. A mistake for anyone to make regarding a spouse but in particular for her with this particular man. Too many 'notions' in Diana's head, I think, as a too young woman in so many ways. It is a tragedy that she could not have accepted Camilla's friendship - what a different story it all would have been.

i find Camilla's story fascinating. What I wouldn't give to read her memoirs - but it will never be - she is too discreet, and in the end she knows it isn't about her, its about Charles. However, such a memoir would be a gift - and a much needed balance to 'set the record straight' from her end.

I think they make a wonderfully settled and mature older couple - and this marriage has likely meant a far more normal and healthier home-life for Charles and for his sons when his sons visit them on holidays and at family gatherings. I think Camilla deserves to be acknowledged as Queen one day, very much so.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...20_634x624.jpg
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  #1051  
Old 12-14-2010, 01:14 AM
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Hi , I am new to the Board and there is tons of stuff to read! This thread in particular is interesting but it is hard to stay on the straight and narrow with the topic, isn't it? Because how one thinks about Camilla (and Charles and Camilla together) depends on how one thinks about Diana - and one's thoughts about Diana must undergo change if one is to be 'okay' with Charles making Camilla his Queen. Its all one ball - inevitably.

Anyway, I realized that I had not answered the thread's question and I want to.

Initially, before I really got into the details, all I really 'knew' about Camilla was what Diana said about her. It was always one-sided. Diana did a pretty thorough 'job' on Camilla - the 'rotweiler' comment and all. The bias Diana created against Camilla was pretty complete - and then I realized one day that Camilla never once defended herself or spoke ill of Diana. Nothing. Silence. It was then I realized how successful Diana's 'campaign' had been.

Particularly, I was touched to see how nervous Camilla was on her wedding day - happy, yes, all smiles, but talk about 'going the mile' for the guy. She didn't have to do this - and she did - and it was then I started to be aware in a conscious way that Camilla is not the person Diana painted - could not be - especially when one saw William and Harry. It was then that I began to realize that a grave injustice had been done to this woman and that the step she had agreed to - to marry Charles - was courageous in a way we will never fully appreciate.

So since the marriage my opinion of Camilla has only grown in respect. Every news story that attempts to denigrate her, I look twice and thrice at. Every denigration of her looks I wince. I cannot fault her. Charles could not have made a better second marriage. She deserves to be Queen. (And I think it was this aspect that Lucien may have been referencing in what became a controversial post - that lauding Diana who was so flawed as wife and princess at the expense of Camilla who is so perfect in both her roles makes no sense. It is also interesting that a male says it so clearly - as they will).

I think King Charles and Queen Camilla will be a credit to Britain.

By the way, could not Charles choose one of his other names to be King? That said, couldn't Camilla choose another name when she is Queen?
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  #1052  
Old 12-14-2010, 01:28 AM
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I think you have said everything beautifully.

As for Charles regnal name - yes he can choose one of his other names or any name he likes. It has been rumoured that he is, or at least has, considered George VII but we will simply have to wait and see when he becomes King.

As for Camilla - same thing. She can choose any name she likes as well.
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  #1053  
Old 12-14-2010, 01:34 AM
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I agree with what Tyger has said as well.

I love seeing photos of Camilla and Charles together as they get older - their love for each other and their like of each other (which is not always there in all couples as they get older) shines through ... and is very touching.
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  #1054  
Old 12-14-2010, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy View Post
I liked them both as a couple before the marriage and still have the same opinion. No-one knew what reactions would be like after the marriage but i am pleased at how well they both are settling into married life. Certainly Camilla is playing her role as the supportive wife and step-mother perfectly and there is no doubt that Charles is far happier now that they are married, it was especially noticable how at ease he is during interviews now than how uncomfortable he was during the Diana years. Another thing that i am pleased about is how the press for the most part are leaving both Charles and Camilla alone, Camilla has none of the mania with the newspapers that Diana had which is completely refreshing for both us and them.
I am very happy for them both. Whether Charles ever ascends to the throne he is with the woman he loves.He may have a little trouble ascending if he makes Camilla his Queen Consort but she has ever right to the title. He was bullied by his father into marring a woman he had no interest in or love for. She is technicality the Princess of Wales, but he knows had he passed tht title to Camilla there would have been an uproar in Brittan.Whether she becomes Queen Camilla remains to be seen.
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  #1055  
Old 12-14-2010, 02:33 AM
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I don't understand why you think he will have trouble ascending the throne. To ascend the throne all he has to do is be alive when his mother dies - simple.
It makes no difference what title he wants for Camilla - it won't affect his right to ascent the throne. That fact is automatic - Mum dies - he is instantly King.
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  #1056  
Old 12-14-2010, 03:48 AM
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Charles and camilla

I think I felt that they deserved happiness but since the marriage I think they messed up too many lives and I am pleased the Princes are showing such loyalty to their mother, Princess Di
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  #1057  
Old 12-14-2010, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTHUR43 View Post
I think I felt that they deserved happiness but since the marriage I think they messed up too many lives and I am pleased the Princes are showing such loyalty to their mother, Princess Di
The 'loyalty' to their mother is most likely due to the good parenting of their father. I find it curious the degree to which Charles is made extraneous by some even still - a continuing denigration of Charles that would perhaps please Diana were she still alive but which I don't understand what it serves now. The two sons are as they are because of Charles - they honor her because of the influence of their father - and as much as they honor their mother, they are clearly devoted to their father.

Curiuos: How have Charles and Camilla 'messed up too many lives' since their marriage? I am unaware of this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I don't understand why you think he will have trouble ascending the throne. To ascend the throne all he has to do is be alive when his mother dies - simple.

It makes no difference what title he wants for Camilla - it won't affect his right to ascent the throne. That fact is automatic - Mum dies - he is instantly King.
I agree. I have not been understanding what people believe would cause Charles not to be king - besides dying before his mother. The suggestion that William would willingly become king over his father I find inexplicable.

The suggestion that William should - and would do so willingly - step over his father to the king-ship is a particularly heartless suggestion - requiring William to participate in an act of savagery towards his father that I don't think that young man could stomach - why would he? To put William under that kind of expectation is cruel to William, not to mention Charles who has been the dutiful servant, performing as he was told. How could anyone believe that such an action would be healthy in any personal way for William to agree to? It is highly unlikely that William has that kind of 'ambition' in him, either. He, in fact, presents as very shy and very unsettled by his public role. He is far from ready for such a step, and certainly not at the price of his father's right.

William has a long ways to go to be settled and mature enough to be in that position. He doesn't have a life yet. Charles, on the other hand, very much has a life, and - who knows from where - he has a significant intelligence with considerable capacities to work in the world. More, a King Charles is going to be tons of fun - the guy has a mind and opinions - its Charles and not William who has the ability to change things. Charles has got moxie.
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  #1058  
Old 12-14-2010, 06:22 AM
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I like that 'moxie'.

You say what I have been trying to say here for years but never seem to get across properly.

One thing I do remember reading was that both Diana and Charles acknowledged the role the other played in parenting the boys, and, with the exceptions of the times when Diana would deliberately sabotage Charles' access times with William, did so very well.

Charles has always been a hands-on Dad and he was there to pick up the pieces after Diana died. Richard Kay, Diana's great supporter, was one who wrote positively about Charles' as a parent in the week after Diana died describing Harry running up to his father at a dinner and cuddling his father. I also remember the image of Harry putting his hand up behind him and Charles was there when they were looking at the cards outside Balmoral. That doesn't happen when there is no positive relationship there.

I also agree that William probably wouldn't want to step into his father's shoes and become King before his time - 30 - 40 years time would be ideal I think.
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  #1059  
Old 12-14-2010, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
The 'loyalty' to their mother is most likely due to the good parenting of their father. I find it curious the degree to which Charles is made extraneous by some even still - a continuing denigration of Charles that would perhaps please Diana were she still alive but which I don't understand what it serves now. The two sons are as they are because of Charles - they honor her because of the influence of their father - and as much as they honor their mother, they are clearly devoted to their father.
Well said they're devoted to both of their parents. Its sad that some people accuse Charles and Diana of being unfit parents, with no substance to their arguments except for personal bias. Will and Harry turned out fine thanks to their parents and family.
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  #1060  
Old 12-14-2010, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
Osipi, you have said it perfectly. I see exactly the same thing. Beautifully summarized.

Diana was jealous of a seasoned friendship. She was too young and inexperienced to comprehend it. What is surprising is that she should have not understood the nature of Charles' life prior to her arrival on the scene - but I am of the opinion she did and then very wrongly assumed that her presence meant that she 'owned' Charles and could dictate to him. A mistake for anyone to make regarding a spouse but in particular for her with this particular man. Too many 'notions' in Diana's head, I think, as a too young woman in so many ways. It is a tragedy that she could not have accepted Camilla's friendship - what a different story it all would have been.

i find Camilla's story fascinating. What I wouldn't give to read her memoirs - but it will never be - she is too discreet, and in the end she knows it isn't about her, its about Charles. However, such a memoir would be a gift - and a much needed balance to 'set the record straight' from her end.

I think they make a wonderfully settled and mature older couple - and this marriage has likely meant a far more normal and healthier home-life for Charles and for his sons when his sons visit them on holidays and at family gatherings. I think Camilla deserves to be acknowledged as Queen one day, very much so.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...20_634x624.jpg
I find YOUR post beautifully summarized -- it very much sums up my feelings.
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