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  #1001  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
The term that accurately fits is disingenuous, which means pretended innocence, lack of candor, falseness, insincere. 'It is intended' as opposed to this is what she will be called because otherwise we would not have been able to marry and now that we have I can change my position to suit my desires. Charles all over, IMO.
OR....

At the time prior to the marriage, Camilla herself was hesitant about fitting into the limelight and the rigors of a very full roster of public duties which over the years I'm sure she was aware of from Charles. From what I know of Camilla over the last five years, she is a woman that is comfortable in her own skin and would even have been happy remaining just Charles' significant other.. she wasn't after titles or positions. And yes... for a very long time to me she was "the rottweiler" and the destructive other woman until I actually took the time to find out things.
What happened in their private relationships happens to a bazillion other people in life. It happens. To me it has no bearing whatsoever on the now of things.

Charles may have stated that the intention was at the time that Camilla be known as the Princess Consort because at that time she was still leery about even being the Duchess of Cornwall and how she would fit in let alone deal with the idea of being Queen Consort. As we've all seen, she's really done a superb job as the DoC and perhaps now with more confidence and experience behind her, she's ready to be a Queen Consort.

I personally would love to see her coronated next to Charles when the time comes.
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  #1002  
Old 11-23-2010, 12:12 AM
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I too think that she should be crowned beside Charles at his coronation as she is his wife and Britain doesn't have morganatic marriages therefore she will be his Queen.

I do think that had Charles already ascended the throne she would have the title Princess Consort now.

I also think that if Charles ascends in the next five years she will be Princess Consort but if it is another 10 years or so (when he has been married to Camilla longer than Diana and when William and Harry are happily married) then I can see her being crowned as his Queen.
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  #1003  
Old 11-23-2010, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by xaristocratx View Post
... There isn't a lot about Camilla that I like or find interesting. She has the combination of a boring personality and zero presence. Charles shares those qualities too.
When you look at the history of the 20th C the British monarchs actually have been boring with the exception of Edward VII and Edward VIII. The others have put duty first. Charles and Camilla will fit that mold perfectly as that is what the monarch should be. They aren't there as entertainers but as people who do their duty, sign legislation, open buildings, attend military parades etc but charisma is not something monarchs need - leave that for film stars and celebrities.
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  #1004  
Old 11-23-2010, 12:44 AM
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Charles may have stated that the intention was at the time
If it was the intention at that particular time, then it should have perhaps been worded in a manner that was less 'expecting' I suppose, or better still, nothing should have been said at all.

Being that it remains the intention (something deliberate, prospective etc) on the Prince of Wales' official webiste, seems to suggest it still is the intented alternative and no one can be faulted for assuming the intended process should have had the support of those concerned.

And let it be said that no one asked for this unconventional choice. It was a sort of preemptive "battle plan" for the engagement.

If behind closed doors it is no longer the intention, then I have to say It's presence on the website is a very misleading forecast.

"The less said, the more it's not an issue" approach is really very ignorant, and in my mind serves no constructive purpose.

They really need to come to a definite or earnest decision and put it to rest once and for all. And hey, there will be those who aren't thrilled by it either way, but resolve will set them free
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  #1005  
Old 11-23-2010, 12:48 AM
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At the moment the intention is that she will be Princess Consort.
Charles would like her to be his Queen.
Those positions haven't changed since 2005.

In other words despite the fact that Charles made a public comment that suggests that she might be his Queen nothing has really changed. It has been reported since 2005 that he wants her crowned as his Queen and now he has sort of said it publicly. That doesn't mean that it will happen - we will still have to see when the time comes.
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  #1006  
Old 11-23-2010, 01:18 AM
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My opinion of Charles and Camilla have changed a lot. I didn't like them at all before, but one day I decided to stop judging them and instead try to understand them. In society we judge everyone oh so quickly. I understood two people who were very much in love, (something that most of us want), and I understood that these were two people who were lacking key elements from their spouses. Charles needed a partner who could provide that shoulder for support. Diana couldn't do that because she needed the exact same thing. And Camilla sadly married a man who was unfaithful to her which had to be very humiliating. There are no villains or victims in this happy and yet sad story. Its unfortunate that people judge Charles, Diana, and Camilla very harshly. All I saw was three people who despreatly wanted to be with someone they deeply loved. Charles and Camilla have that while sadly Diana didn't get to enjoy that luxury.
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  #1007  
Old 11-23-2010, 01:48 AM
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I agree with you that there's a lot of different circumstances as to why things did go as they did. What I saw too was something different perhaps than a grand love affair at the get go that never had a chance. When Charles and Camilla first met, they did connect right away but at that time they both were thinking quite differently than a forever kind of love. Camilla wanted Andrew. Charles fell for Camilla but knew at that time that it was mostly a no go and he had duties to fulfill. What truly made theirs a love story is that even with her being married to Andrew (I've heard it stated several places that it was an open marriage) and raising a family, Camilla and Charles remained as the best of friends to the point that he was godfather to their first born son. I think Diana if she'd given herself the chance to become friends with Camilla, things might have gone differently. I think Diana was more intimidated by the intimacy of friendship that Charles shared with the Parker-Bowles and with Camilla mostly. For a 19-20 year old, the idea that a platonic relationship could exist between a man and a woman is like believing the earth is flat. We have yet to hear of any "fooling around" done in Camilla's marriage to Andrew before Charles married Diana. I do believe that Charles did stick to his wedding vows and marriage until as was stated "the marriage irretrievably fell apart". Diana was jealous of the intimacy of friendship mostly

I agree it was a comedy of errors and grossly overplayed as a bad paperback novel. In the long run, over a span of 40 more or less years, whether dating, married to others and close friends, then paramours and then husband and wife, they have a long standing relationship that has withstood the test of time and trials.
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  #1008  
Old 11-23-2010, 02:15 AM
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If the intention is to have Camilla named as "Princess Consort" they had better get their skates on and change the law! Changing the Law is serious business and we can expect it to take some time during it's somewhat tortuous passage through both the Commons and Lords. Throw in a couple of Select Commites, submissions, etc. and you've got a country in turmoil. At that point Politicians are wont to look to their own immediate welfare.

The notion of civil unrest can have a galvanising effect on a politicians who can see their immediate future in terms of a snap election. I cannot see any MP pushing it with indecent haste without a clear mandate from his or her own electorate. So, as things stand, should Her Majesty die unexpectedly soon, Charles will be King, Camilla his Queen.

At that stage I can hardly see the Queen lying in state whilst the political machinery tries to make a rapid law change. It would be neither dignified nor respectful to a country in mourning. So, we wait a while until after the funeral and take another shot at change but, what about the King? Is he not to be Crowned until the whole mess is sorted out?

More importantly, what about his Queen, because Queen she will be regardless of whether a "Coronation" service is held. Even more importantly, what about the health of the political party in power? Will they even be re-elected or will it be won by a landslide and at this point neither of the main two parties are sure which is which!

What about the health of the nation, is it internationally perceived to be in crisis? Will the Commonwealth stand stauch or, will it collapse forever?

So the fact remains, as things stand legally, Camilla will be Queen Consort whatever she is called.
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  #1009  
Old 11-23-2010, 02:19 AM
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I agree with much of what you have said, MARG. Valid points
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  #1010  
Old 11-23-2010, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
If the intention is to have Camilla named as "Princess Consort" they had better get their skates on and change the law!
I really don't see this happening any time soon. From what we've heard from Cameron, I think he'd be happy leaving things as they are and she'll be Queen Consort. There's also the problem that if it IS changed by law that Camilla would be Princess Consort, that sets a precedent and when William is king, Kate would then also be Princess Consort. In total, it would be eradicating the title of Queen Consort.
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  #1011  
Old 11-23-2010, 02:52 AM
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I dont believe it would be considered a precedent that every future female consort would henceforth become 'Princess Consort'. Though not my reasons for supporting it, the reasons as to why this style and designation were even considered are no secret. Controversial figures and circumstances, which is fundamentally what it comes down to, have the ability to provoke change, even if only temporarily.

I think that should it ever reach parliament, that any such motion will be obliged only to Camilla in accordance to the length of her life. From the time Charles ascends the throne until her death, whereby the legilslative act shall disolve. Or something very similar.

Disestablishing the title of Queen, should Camilla be known otherwise, is incredibly unlikely to happen.

Mary I co ruled with Philip of Spain and William of Orange was made joint ruler with Mary II. Have either of the three male consorts since taken on the position of joint monarch? It would appear not :)

What is done can be undone and by that I mean shall only be observed during a period of time where deemed appropriate to a particular person and or circumstance.
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  #1012  
Old 11-23-2010, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I dont believe it would be considered a precedent that every future female consort would henceforth become 'Princess Consort'. Though not my reasons for supporting it, the reasons as to why this style and designation were even considered are no secret. Controversial figures, and fundamentally that's what it comes down to, have the ability to provoke change, even if only temporarily.
Would parliament though really go through all the trouble to enact that the wife of a king would be titled as a Princess Consort only to have to meet up again and enact that William's wife would be titled Queen Consort Catherine as a wife of the king? Your point of "for her lifetime" would make sense but I really can't see them doing this.

What COULD happen though is that when Charles does ascend the throne, he could as the font of honor, declare that his wife is to be KNOWN as (as in styled) as the Princess Consort. Just like she is now The Princess of Wales by title, she is known as the Duchess of Cornwall by preference. Correct me if I am wrong, but should this happen, she would not be coronated alongside Charles and would be known as HRH The Princess Consort. That would leave Queen Consort very well in place for when William ascends the throne.

I do honestly believe that when the time comes, Camilla herself will have been around royal duties and the lifestyle that goes with it to determine herself whether or not she's up to being a Queen Consort. Many people have stated that the reason she doesn't use the title The Princess of Wales is because it was Diana's title and she was kind of instructed that no... you can't use that. I believe honestly it was her choice not to use that but rather go with the Charles' older title of Duke of Cornwall. Charles and Camilla are close.. they'll decide themselves how they want her to be styled once Charles is King. Just as HM has had her own thoughts and issued LP on Philip, so will Charles.

On another angle, perhaps the Princess Consort is a personal choice by the both of them. His father as long as he has known him has been as one would say "a step behind his Queen". Perhaps that's the same way as Camilla would like to view her husband.
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  #1013  
Old 11-24-2010, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
On another angle, perhaps the Princess Consort is a personal choice by the both of them. His father as long as he has known him has been as one would say "a step behind his Queen". Perhaps that's the same way as Camilla would like to view her husband.
Osipi this is what I think about the Duchess.
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  #1014  
Old 11-24-2010, 02:52 PM
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I have been a fan of C & C from the beginning. If you think about all the vitriol they have waded through to be as popular as they are now, they are two very strong people. I enjoy seeing them as they go about their duties and they, especially she, just get better and better.

I would think that once the PoW becomes King, all the title business that has kept Camilla from being the Princess of Wales (whether rightly or not) will become moot. She will be Charles' only Queen and, IMO, all the Diana business related to titles should disappear, as there cannot be a comparison between Camilla and Diana as Queen.

I am sure there are a host of "unfriendly to Camilla people" out there who don't like her because she will be Queen, something Diana would never have achieved. I am a neutral person re: Diana, so any attack on my comments are unwarranted.
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  #1015  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:28 PM
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Well I am a Diana fan and my opinion of Camilla (not so much Charles) has changed somewhat since the wedding.

I do believe that they are in love and happy and you have to be in serious denial not to see that IMO. My only issue is with the title....I think they should have just bitten the bullet and claimed the PoW title (of course it would have bothered me then but who cares what I think). This Duchess of Cornwall stuff is ridiculous (although it is one of Charles's title). Just own it is what I say.

There are so many billions of people in the world and not everyone is going to like what you do or what you stand for. And for Charles sake, he just needs a majority of people in England to either care for him or be ambivalent for things to remain as they are.
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  #1016  
Old 11-24-2010, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
I would think that once the PoW becomes King, all the title business that has kept Camilla from being the Princess of Wales (whether rightly or not) will become moot. She will be Charles' only Queen and, IMO, all the Diana business related to titles should disappear, as there cannot be a comparison between Camilla and Diana as Queen
In all actuality, Camilla does hold the title of The Princess of Wales currently. Its just that she has preferred to be known as (styled) The Duchess of Cornwall. She very well could have opted to use the PoW title but I think that if in fact it was her that decided against, it out of deference to Diana which a lot of people at that time remembered, I think it was very considerate of her to opt for the other title.
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  #1017  
Old 11-24-2010, 11:32 PM
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Seeing as i'm still a newb to the Royal Family all I could think of is how horrible Prince Charles was for the stuff that went on when he was married to Diana. But i've found out how much he cares for the environment and it makes me look at him in a new light. He has my support!
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  #1018  
Old 11-25-2010, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyDiana View Post
Seeing as i'm still a newb to the Royal Family all I could think of is how horrible Prince Charles was for the stuff that went on when he was married to Diana. But i've found out how much he cares for the environment and it makes me look at him in a new light. He has my support!
He was married to a loose gun,a whiner avant le lettre,not ready for any public role,another child in the childcare she worked before,nice gal,but not the right material to anything worthwhile except bubbly nothing and poses and roses.She just didn't have it,all she knew was how to play the media,if it so suited her,or complain on them,if that so suited her.
I've always supported Charles and Camilla,nothing has ever changed my thoughts on the two,and nothing will.Great couple.
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  #1019  
Old 11-25-2010, 12:37 PM
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It's one thing to have an opinion, which we are all entitled too, though it's another to make that opinion public with intent to speak quite scornfully about someone just because you feel you can. Very poor form.

And that goes for those (not you) who speak so scathingly toward Camilla too.

And I don't really see how the post you replied too, would have encouraged what is otherwise a meaningless rant with very little objective other than to character assassinate the woman. Must have been a seemingly easy opportunity I take it...
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  #1020  
Old 11-25-2010, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I do believe that they are in love and happy and you have to be in serious denial not to see that IMO. My only issue is with the title....I think they should have just bitten the bullet and claimed the PoW title (of course it would have bothered me then but who cares what I think). This Duchess of Cornwall stuff is ridiculous (although it is one of Charles's title). Just own it is what I say.

There are so many billions of people in the world and not everyone is going to like what you do or what you stand for. And for Charles sake, he just needs a majority of people in England to either care for him or be ambivalent for things to remain as they are.
At the time of the engagement Prince Charles had a lot to lose from the public. I think choosing the Princess of Wales for the Duchess might not have gone over as well as the title Duchess of Cornwall. What I think they did wrong was to even speak of the princess consort title then. I feel time and getting to know the Duchess would have changed the public's view.
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