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  #721  
Old 05-11-2008, 12:19 AM
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So why is it so difficult to come up with the actual wording from the actual book? By the time people have got hold of something and put their spin on it, and it's been repeated by other people putting their spin on it, a second- or third-hand account isn't necessarily all that reliable.

Diana is supposed to have said in several places that she and Charles did love each other at some stages of their marriage. So I guess one unsubstantiated account will cancel out the other, right?
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  #722  
Old 05-11-2008, 01:00 AM
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< ed aggressive response - Warren >
Here is my last bit of research - I cannot find my Dimbleby book but here is Tina Brown on page 143 of "The Diana Chronicles:"

His (Prince Charles') authorized biographer Jonathan Dimbleby stated "The Prince made it clear he was never in love with Diana and felt he had to propose after he came under pressure from his father - a revelation that was duly splashed on the front page of the News of The World as 'I Was Never in Love with Diana'."

This quote comes directly (according to Tina Brown) from Jonathan Dimbleby's book, "The Prince of Wales, A Biography," page 284.

Perhaps someone on this thread has quick access to the Dimbleby book and can confirm that this quote comes directly from Dimbleby's bio of Charles, thus putting to rest any speculation of who said what and in what context it was stated.
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  #723  
Old 05-11-2008, 02:07 AM
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  #724  
Old 05-11-2008, 02:08 AM
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Well, it'd be nice if someone could find out where he's supposed to have stated it and actually post the wording. My copy doesn't say anything of the sort on page 284 but it could be a different edition.

There have been countless examples where people have claimed "Charles said this, Charles said that," and when you finally come down to it, it was actually Diana saying that Charles said it. Which isn't exactly the same thing. So before we get any more repetition of this charge that Charles told Jonathan Dimbleby that he never loved Diana and it's right there in the book, would someone who's making this claim PLEASE give us the exact quote.

As I said before, if people aren't prepared to back this up with the exact quote, this part of the thread is going to end up deleted. This is ridiculous.


ETA: Scooter came up with this quote from page 283 (in post 703):

pg 283: 'If his betrothal to Diana Spencer was hardly the love match for which his friends had hoped, that she perhaps wanted, and which the nation certainly assumed, he was determined tht their marriage should suceed'.

Which is a very different thing from a statement from hm in the mid-1990s that he'd never loved Diana. As I suspected, people have played fast and loose with this statement in order to try and make it say something it didn't say. And rather than going back to the source, others have just taken the spin and claimed that it was the original statement. No surprise there, then.
  #725  
Old 05-11-2008, 02:16 AM
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This thread is closed for moderator review
  #726  
Old 05-12-2008, 08:59 AM
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Well, that was unedifying.

After some deletions, edited posts to remove aggressive and insulting remarks, and one banning, we are ready to risk all and re-open the thread.

A couple of points first:

Some parts of the Forums are concerned with lighter topics while some make an attempt to examine issues of substance. To this end, if members want to quote a source or author in support of their argument, they need to quote the source. Stating "it was in the News of the World" or "Tina Brown said he said it" or "it said so in Vanity Fair" or "it was in all the newspapers" doesn't cut the mustard. Becoming aggrieved (and/or aggressive) when another member requests the precise wording from the claimed source demonstrates a disregard for historical accuracy and a disregard for verifiable fact.

Challenging moderator decisions in the threads and continuing to argue moderator decisions in the threads violates one of the basic rules of the Forums. Without wishing to come across as heavy-handed but pointing out the obvious, there are repercussions for doing so.

When we are discussing topics where some members have obvious emotional involvement it is important to respect the differences of opinion and to discuss (or debate) in a rational, adult and civil manner. It is also important to be able to back up 'statements of fact' with precise attribution if requested to do so.


Thanks for everyone's cooperation in ensuring we are able to continue this discussion in a spirit of civility and mutual respect.

Warren
on behalf of Elspeth, Avalon, Polly and TheTruth
the British Forum and Diana subforum moderators
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  #727  
Old 05-12-2008, 09:23 AM
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So, all drama aside, I have been searching for the transcript to the Dimbleby interview with Prince Charles and I can't find one. Or, at the very least, a video link. Whenever I do a search all I seem to turn up is the Panorama interview.
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  #728  
Old 05-12-2008, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
So, all drama aside, I have been searching for the transcript to the Dimbleby interview with Prince Charles and I can't find one. Or, at the very least, a video link. Whenever I do a search all I seem to turn up is the Panorama interview.
Like you, I cannot find a transcript or video link. I did find a statement that nobody can show or print it due to legal limitations(?).

The only reference to Dimbleby that I can find in the Diana Chronicles between pages 141 - 144 is
Quote:
What is harder to go along with is the assertion by Jonathan Dimbleby, Charles insistence on delivering the gift to Camilla in person was an act of 'courtesy'
  #729  
Old 05-12-2008, 02:53 PM
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For the moment, it looks much more like the contrary. Actually, if you go on this page, a reader said :
Quote:
His biographer says that Charles did everything he could to make the marriage work and didn't see Camilla Parker-Bowles again romantically until his marriage had irretrievably broken down.
I know you're probably aware of this already but my thinking is that you don't force yourself to make a marriage work if there's not a single feeling inside you.

I'm doing some research right now and see if I get luckier. I'll post if I find anything.
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  #730  
Old 05-12-2008, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
So, all drama aside, I have been searching for the transcript to the Dimbleby interview with Prince Charles and I can't find one. Or, at the very least, a video link. Whenever I do a search all I seem to turn up is the Panorama interview.
I doubt that you'll find a link or a transcript. Dimbleby did the programme as a freelance & it was only ever broadcast once on the ITV. The BBC apparently turned it down - this was when Marmaduke Hussey (husband of the Queen's Lady in Waiting, Susan Hussey) was still on the trustee board of the BBC. I think after it was broadcast the once it was deposited in the Windsor Castle archives and you would have to ask permission to view or broadcast it again. So far permission has never been given. Whereas the Panorama interview is BBC copyright and so can be re-broadcast ad infinitum. From my memory Prince Charles never said in the interview that he had never loved Diana. He admitted to having an affair but only after the marriage had broken down "us both having tried" to make it work as he put it. Furthermore, like Elspeth I could find no reference to Charles denying he had loved Diana on p.284 (or for that matter 283 or 285) of Dimbleby's book, contrary to what Tina Brown claims.
  #731  
Old 05-12-2008, 07:46 PM
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It's at the very bottom of 283 continuing on 284.
  #732  
Old 05-12-2008, 07:51 PM
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The wording on page 283 is

pg 283: 'If his betrothal to Diana Spencer was hardly the love match for which his friends had hoped, that she perhaps wanted, and which the nation certainly assumed, he was determined tht their marriage should suceed'.

which isn't the same as saying that he'd never loved Diana. I don't think it comes as any surprise to people that Charles wasn't head over heels in love when they married, but then he'd said in an earlier interview that he thought friendship was a better basis for a marriage than infatuation. And saying that he wasn't head over heels in love at the time of his marriage (which is what Dimbleby said, it wasn't a direct quote) isn't the same as saying in the mid-1990s that he'd never loved Diana.
  #733  
Old 05-12-2008, 07:59 PM
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No, it doesn't say that he (Charles) never loved Diana. But I think it reveals a lot about him, that he was very well prepared to do his duty for his country and was hoping to fall in love.
  #734  
Old 05-12-2008, 08:10 PM
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No one but Charles will ever know the truth. That he defended his position with his biographer is just that. That, as Prince of Wales, keeping a mistress, was not outside the relm of his "position", was certainly a possibility. That he would have liked the match to have worked, publicly, certainly. He wanted to be Edward VII, but it didn't work. Diana was not Alexandra.
  #735  
Old 05-12-2008, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Diana was not Alexandra.
No, she had MUCH better hearing.


  #736  
Old 05-12-2008, 08:41 PM
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Russo you are sooooo bad!!!
  #737  
Old 05-12-2008, 09:00 PM
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Maybe not, if she had lived long.
  #738  
Old 05-12-2008, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
The wording on page 283 is

pg 283: 'If his betrothal to Diana Spencer was hardly the love match for which his friends had hoped, that she perhaps wanted, and which the nation certainly assumed, he was determined tht their marriage should suceed'.

which isn't the same as saying that he'd never loved Diana. I don't think it comes as any surprise to people that Charles wasn't head over heels in love when they married, but then he'd said in an earlier interview that he thought friendship was a better basis for a marriage than infatuation. And saying that he wasn't head over heels in love at the time of his marriage (which is what Dimbleby said, it wasn't a direct quote) isn't the same as saying in the mid-1990s that he'd never loved Diana.
Sorry Elspeth, but I must disagree. "not a love match' clearly, to me anyway, means Charles was not in love with Diana when he married her. Also, immediately after that quote CHarles goes on to say he was 'uneasy' about the match. If Skydragon is correct, and the wheels came off the Wales marriage wagon about one year into it, when exactly did her love her, if not at the wedding? Also, on page 287 Charles is quoted as saying 'His feelings for Camilla Parker Bowles had not changed'. This certainly indicates to me that Charles was in love with Camilla and not Diana at the time of his first wedding.
  #739  
Old 05-12-2008, 09:59 PM
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But you're reading a lot into that statement. The reports we hear are flat assertions that somewhere in the biography, Charles told Dimbleby straight out "I never loved Diana." He didn't say that. I'm sure he wasn't deeply in love when they married, but Diana told several people that they'd loved each other (I think it was in one of the Ingrid Seward books, where she said Diana told her that she and Charles loved each other at some stages of their relationship), although I'm sure it wasn't the same sort of love he had for Camilla. That part of the book is very carefully worded with ifs and howevers and althoughs, and there aren't any direct quotes. Whoever took that passage and construed it as "Prince Charles told Dimbleby he never loved Diana" has been guilty of serious overstatement, even misrepresentation, because nowhere in the book is such a quote to be found.
  #740  
Old 05-13-2008, 09:26 AM
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So do you think he was in love with both of them? I think if someone is in love with person A and marries person B, said marriage doesnt have much of a chance. Person B will never be person A.
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