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  #401  
Old 03-10-2008, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I agree with anyone who thinks that the monarchy is less stable due to what happened and I see hard times ahead for a King Charles and Queen Camilla or whatever her title will be. If Charles & Diana had been a love match and great team until this day Britain would have the most stable monarchy we can imagine. They might be a happy couple in private and I like them and wish them well but they will certainly have a tough time as reigning couple ... at least until Wills will get married to a girl who brings along some of the qualities that made his late mother so special (and sorry, I am not talking about Kate).
I felt the same way about Diana as you now feel about Catherine. Times and people change and although Diana caused a great deal of damage to the monarchy, it was hardly going to survive all the changes that have happened in the world, in a time warp. Although Diana had a following, it was not the whole of the UK or commonwealth countries, many like me couldn't stand her, many simple couldn't care less, for all the photo's and articles many saw her as a 'nice but dim opportunist'.

Bearing that in mind, the monarchy would still have been looking at ways to survive. As information has been easier to obtain, people with or without the 4 or so in the marriage, have been able to see exactly what they are getting out of the arrangement. The UK gets nothing from the CW countries and they get nothing from us, no monies, no influence, nothing.
Quote:
given Diana was unique in her impact on people Camilla cannot / does not want to / should not fill this gap. I don't have any objections towards her but she is not a people person who will make Charles sparkle and catch peoples' interest or imagination with a positive impact on the institution.
On the contrary, Camilla appeals to the people who don't live their lives glued to soaps or BB, the very people who saw through Diana. Diana was as unique in her impact of some people, as any 'celebrity culture creatures', which is to say she was not unique at all, just one in a long line. Someone who IF she had an illness, would get it treated and say nothing, a woman who is the epitome of an HRH. She is seen as warm, caring and with a great sense of humour. Someone who will always put her husband and their children first.
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  #402  
Old 03-10-2008, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
So of course people have lost respect for the monarchy. I think more people do support Charles and Camilla than once did. But support isn't the same thing as real respect and admiration, the way people once felt about the monarchy. I guess now that the mystique has been lost and the royals have shown themselves to be ordinary people with glaring faults like anyone else, it will be nearly impossible to win back real esteem for the monarchy.
But people have also lost respect for the law, for our servicemen, for honesty, discretion, integrity, it is all part of the natural cycle.
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  #403  
Old 03-10-2008, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
I believe the way the media writes about Charles and Camilla will change the moment he becomes king. The media dares to make fun of a pronce and heir, they won't do that to His Majesty the King and his wedded wife, be she known as Princess Consort or Queen then.
I sincerely hope you're right, but I think the press has become so bold that I wouldn't count on it. They still don't really attack the Queen because there's no mileage with public opinion in doing so, but King Charles with his ex-mistress by his side, and his earnest manner and his big ears and his bald patch? Considering the way some of the tabloids are going after Charles and Camilla now and managing to get a lot of support, it'll be much better for their bottom line if they can keep controversies going about whether William should really be King or whether we need a monarchy at all.
  #404  
Old 03-10-2008, 06:06 PM
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For a while I thought Camilla was starting to learn to work, after this last cruise.....well.....she needs a good talking to----toooo tired having another vacation. Regardless on what you think of Charles he does his duty. Camilla claims (at age 60) she is too old to work so hard. Wonder if she has looked at the Queen & Prince Phillip events. Shame on Camilla.
  #405  
Old 03-10-2008, 06:13 PM
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I am still scratching my head over the taxpayers having to foot her security bill for her pre-Duchess home:

Quote:
Despite her rare visits, the Duchess insisted on beefing up security to a round-the-clock team of armed officers costing the taxpayer £2.6million.
I would think she would be obligated to work her old buns off in gratitude.

D. Mail
  #406  
Old 03-10-2008, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I agree with anyone who thinks that the monarchy is less stable due to what happened and I see hard times ahead for a King Charles and Queen Camilla or whatever her title will be. If Charles & Diana had been a love match and great team until this day Britain would have the most stable monarchy we can imagine. Unfortunately, it was not meant to be and given Diana was unique in her impact on people Camilla cannot / does not want to / should not fill this gap. I don't have any objections towards her but she is not a people person who will make Charles sparkle and catch peoples' interest or imagination with a positive impact on the institution.
I think you hit the nail on the head DoM. The people have to care about the Royal Family and the people in them. And for all of Diana's sparkle, even in the early years before she turned against Charles, Diana failed miserably in getting Charles to sparkle or in catching the people's imagination in the Royal Institution itself.

Diana was only good at making Diana sparkle; she couldn't make the people and the institution around her sparkle unlike the late Queen Mother who did wonders with the public opinion of her somewhat stammering and socially awkward husband George VI. The late Queen Mother's sparkle enhanced the prestige of the Royal Family, Diana's sparkle only enhanced Diana's prestige and the more Diana sparkled, the worse the Royal Family's repuation became in comparison to Diana even so that even in the beginning when all were hopeful for the marriage, Diana's impact was detrimental to the reputation and the respect of the Royal Family without her even meaning to.

Maybe sparkle is the wrong word, the Royal Family does not need another Diana or someone who enhances her own reputation to the expense of the institution that gave her the center stage from which to charm and delight.

But I agree that Charles and Camilla need to find something that makes the people care about them and want them to be their King and Queen even with all their faults.

I mean, seriously, the Queen Mother was incredibly lazy, pompous, and she spent money like crazy and everybody loved her.
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  #407  
Old 03-10-2008, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
So I think that monarchs are still a rare breed and get much more public interest than any "common" Head of State. But I think it's a current trend to cut down on public expenses and thus monarchies will suffer, probably even more than other democracies.

Ceremonial functions and the people performing it need to give the people they are aiming at with their ceremonies something in return. It has to do with the subconcious value of rituals.
That is very true, I think Jo. So I think there the more that Charles and Camilla can connect to the familiar and traditional rituals that mean something to people the stronger the connection would be.
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  #408  
Old 03-10-2008, 08:04 PM
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And a lot of people just say "get rid of the whole lot altogether" (like you said ysbel).

Actually that latter reaction seems to be pretty common. I have a professor who recently came over from Britain and he was saying that while his whole family are royalty fans, he has no use for the monarchy. He said basically, "All the queen's children are messed up, none of them could keep their marriages together." .
Yes that is what I'm afraid of. I think the more common reaction is to wipe the whole lot of them away.

However, the society that Charles, Anne, Andrew, and Edward sprang from is not innocent as a newborn babe. Divorces, adulteries, etc. are on the rise in all strata of society so a lot of people can empathize with them. I don't think that real esteem is forever lost simply because the royals have shown themselves to be human like the rest of us though.
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  #409  
Old 03-10-2008, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaia View Post
I am still scratching my head over the taxpayers having to foot her security bill for her pre-Duchess home:

I would think she would be obligated to work her old buns off in gratitude.

D. Mail

How often Camilla spends at Raymill is just a guess by the Daily Mail. They have never said in any article they had anyone standing watch at Raymill for 365 days a year. Letting people know exactly how much time Camilla spends in Raymill, Highgrove or Clarence House would be a security issue.So I seriously doubt if the Mail really knows the real amount of time. Raymill was given better security because she obviously spends enough time there to warrant improved security. They claim that she barely spends any time there because the Mail caters to people like you who would get upset by it.
  #410  
Old 03-10-2008, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cde View Post
They claim... Mail caters to people like you who would get upset by it.
I don't care a wit as I don't foot the bill...as for catering to "people like me" you are assuming you know something about my reading habits. I was sent that site and thought it was funny.
  #411  
Old 03-10-2008, 08:55 PM
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With all due respect, I believe that Diana gave Charles sparkle in the early years of their marriage. They both seemed to be happy and in love then, and they were an attractive couple to watch. Only time will tell what Prince Charles will be like as a king and how Camilla will complement him. I think that she is a good wife to him BTW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
even in the early years before she turned against Charles, Diana failed miserably in getting Charles to sparkle or in catching the people's imagination in the Royal Institution itself.
  #412  
Old 03-10-2008, 08:56 PM
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I looked at them in pictures from the islands today and thought wow he is really having a good time with her. I don't remember him smiling like this on tours with Diana after the first few years they were married.
I have to admit I looked at her and thought today Gosh I hope she never becomes Queen but look at him with such sadness that he married the wrong woman for him, spent years hiding Camilla only to marry her and think of all the years they lost in other marriages.
I also have to say looking at those pictures of her working by his side she really really must LOVE him to have taken on the role of his Duchess. It isn't a easy job and she could have easily said nope let's live like this unattached so I don't have to put up with all the other mess that comes with being married to you. LOL
She might have married him but please please don't make her the Queen of England. I think they are a great couple though.
Michelle
  #413  
Old 03-10-2008, 09:04 PM
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I think that Diana gave the RF celebrity in a world in which the cult of celebrity was rising and spreading. These days the public expects to be entertained constantly and instantly. They can see bright, shiny people with bright shiny smiles and bright shiny clothes on their televisions day and night, and in magazines, and on the internet anytime they want to. The Royal Family can't compete with that sort of entertainment; they have to offer something different. What can they offer? Tradition and heritage.

I think that whether Charles & Camilla ultimately sink or swim will depend on how much the British people value tradition and heritage, for I think that is what C&C offer. Charles, because he is the heir and the link with tradition and heritage, and Camilla because she is the sort of woman who should be his Queen. She is more than passingly similar to the beloved Queen Mother and is a warm, sensible, outdoorsy, type who does not seek to hog the limelight and has shown that she can make Charles laugh and enjoy himself in the discharge of his duties, and probably brings out the best in him even if he does not actually sparkle.
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  #414  
Old 03-10-2008, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I felt the same way about Diana as you now feel about Catherine. Times and people change and although Diana caused a great deal of damage to the monarchy, it was hardly going to survive all the changes that have happened in the world, in a time warp. Although Diana had a following, it was not the whole of the UK or commonwealth countries, many like me couldn't stand her, many simple couldn't care less, for all the photo's and articles many saw her as a 'nice but dim opportunist'.

Bearing that in mind, the monarchy would still have been looking at ways to survive. As information has been easier to obtain, people with or without the 4 or so in the marriage, have been able to see exactly what they are getting out of the arrangement. The UK gets nothing from the CW countries and they get nothing from us, no monies, no influence, nothing.
On the contrary, Camilla appeals to the people who don't live their lives glued to soaps or BB, the very people who saw through Diana. Diana was as unique in her impact of some people, as any 'celebrity culture creatures', which is to say she was not unique at all, just one in a long line. Someone who IF she had an illness, would get it treated and say nothing, a woman who is the epitome of an HRH. She is seen as warm, caring and with a great sense of humour. Someone who will always put her husband and their children first.
As I have not seen a soap opera for 40 years and have no idea of what BB is, I guess your assessment is quite wrong. The derogatory inference that if one prefers Diana to Charles and Camilla they are "celebrity culture creatures", whatever that might be. As to the "someone who will always put her husband and their children first, which husband? She, certainly, didn't put either Andrew or her children first.
  #415  
Old 03-10-2008, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MichelleVA View Post
I looked at them in pictures from the islands today and thought wow he is really having a good time with her. I don't remember him smiling like this on tours with Diana after the first few years they were married.
I have to admit I looked at her and thought today Gosh I hope she never becomes Queen but look at him with such sadness that he married the wrong woman for him, spent years hiding Camilla only to marry her and think of all the years they lost in other marriages.
I also have to say looking at those pictures of her working by his side she really really must LOVE him to have taken on the role of his Duchess. It isn't a easy job and she could have easily said nope let's live like this unattached so I don't have to put up with all the other mess that comes with being married to you. LOL
She might have married him but please please don't make her the Queen of England. I think they are a great couple though.
Michelle
Camilla is his wife she will be queen when he ascends the throne.
Some people may not like the idea but it is what it is.
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  #416  
Old 03-10-2008, 10:16 PM
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A lot of people don't like that idea. That's why we're debating in this forum!
  #417  
Old 03-10-2008, 10:31 PM
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Is there a particular reason why you are using an exclamation point?
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  #418  
Old 03-10-2008, 10:43 PM
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If Charles becomes King, does that automatically make Camilla the Queen?
  #419  
Old 03-10-2008, 10:52 PM
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Yes, she would become the Queen Consort.
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  #420  
Old 03-11-2008, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
This may indeed be the common, and understandable, reaction of women who have cheating husbands .............. when the woman herself is not cheating. But when she is also cheating (Hewitt, et al), and may in fact have been the first to do so (Manakee and possibly also Henry Pembroke*, even earlier), the word that springs to my mind is hypocrite.
[my bolding]
(*See The Real Diana, Lady Colin Campbell, 2004 edition, Chapter 10.)
A fair number of ladies from the stable European monarchies opt for love affairs, thereby drowning-healing their hurt feelings in the ocean of passion with other partners and avenging themselves. However, it tends to be a short-term measure as cheating husbands may not display enough interest and jealousy to their wives' endeavours. This was Princess Diana's case, I dare to assume.
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
...[snipped]

But it appears that Charles and Camilla are not serial cheaters. They seem to prefer a boring, sedentary, somewhat bookish, and perfectly pleasant lifestyle. That is the image that they most convincingly portray because I think it is what they truly are despite everything that has happened.
Cheating is morally wrong and physically dirty. I for one think that one should not be a serial cheater to be a moral cripple. I can neither excuse Princess Diana for casting prudence to the wind and "drowning her sorrows" with other men nor Prince Charles for running to safe habours of his mistress as fast as he could. Both Prince Charles and Princess Diana behaved immaturely without fully comprehending the far-reaching implications attached to their actions and decisions.
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Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
... [snipped]
I guess now that the mystique has been lost and the royals have shown themselves to be ordinary people with glaring faults like anyone else, it will be nearly impossible to win back real esteem for the monarchy.
You are absolutely right... By showing their human side, royals tend to erode their celestial image and diminish respect of ordinary people.
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