Camilla and The Public

[Denville]

Obviously it was because of the fact that there are some people who are never going to get over the "Diana issue" and the divorce. But most people IMO don't care.
However the RF always tries to cover all the possibiltiies and they wanted to put a sop out to state that Camilla would not use the title of Princess of Wales..and that in the event of Charles succeeding, they had an option ready in case there was a public fuss about the idea of Camilla using the title "queen". But she and C have now been married a long time.. and I think that mostly people are indifferent, and will not be making a big fuss if she is Queen..so of late, the Royals have been temporising and saying "we'll have to see." and IMO she will be queen.

 

[Dee Anna]

Well it is interesting.

When time comes (assuming it does and Charles doesn't pre decease the Queen) will the "intention" be upheld or will legislation take over?

On a more dismal note, should Charles pass before the Queen, what would Camilla's official title become?

 

[Osipi]

I believe she would still be called HRH The Duchess of Cornwall should Charles predecease the Queen. Once the queen passes and William is King, Prince George would then be the Duke of Cornwall and Camilla most likely would have the title of The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall but be known as The Duchess of Cornwall most likely until George marries.

I think I got that right

 

[cepe]

Obviously it was because of the fact that there are some people who are never going to get over the "Diana issue" and the divorce. But most people IMO don't care.
However the RF always tries to cover all the possibiltiies and they wanted to put a sop out to state that Camilla would not use the title of Princess of Wales..and that in the event of Charles succeeding, they had an option ready in case there was a public fuss about the idea of Camilla using the title "queen". But she and C have now been married a long time.. and I think that mostly people are indifferent, and will not be making a big fuss if she is Queen..so of late, the Royals have been temporising and saying "we'll have to see." and IMO she will be queen.

Agree.

Frankly this current round of C&C negative chat is the creation of the tabloid press and very few others are interested in the UK. Running polls at the same time as stories of Diana was only ever going to produce one result.

Camilla should be Queen and there will no riots and the monarchy will not fall.

 

[M. Payton]

Totally agree with your statement, the only ones that will put up a fuss is the media and the republicans..(and they are really of no importance)..all else could care less for they lead their own lives and have things to take care of. The monarchy will go on as usual and we will have King Charles and Queen Camilla as it should be.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Agree.

Frankly this current round of C&C negative chat is the creation of the tabloid press and very few others are interested in the UK. Running polls at the same time as stories of Diana was only ever going to produce one result.

Camilla should be Queen and there will no riots and the monarchy will not fall.

Agree! And the only ones who think that people will riot in the streets are Diana's biased secretaries:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/42845...ays-brits-would-riot-if-camilla-became-queen/

PRINCESS Diana’s private *secretary today claims the *public would riot if Charles tried to make Camilla his queen.

Michael Gibbins says there is still deep public resentment towards the Duchess of Cornwall over the way she treated Diana.

My response:

1. People won't even bother to riots over a thing that doesn't affect their live at all.

2. Camilla should and deserves to be Queen Consort.

3. Charles is turning 70 next year: It's going to be documentaries, he's going to receive a lot of praise - also from his sons and things will hopefully fall back to normal.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Well it is interesting.

When time comes (assuming it does and Charles doesn't pre decease the Queen) will the "intention" be upheld or will legislation take over?

On a more dismal note, should Charles pass before the Queen, what would Camilla's official title become?

That legislation could also have to be passed in some of the other realms as well - depending on what is the situation with regards to rights of wives in their respective countries and the status of the wife and the names etc she gains on marriage.

The idea is to punish Charles and Camilla for hurting Diana and the very vocal Diana fans will cry foul if Camilla is Queen.

The fact that 20 years of hard work has been destroyed in the polls in a month with all the documentaries which William and Harry have been involved in as well as the others shows how slight is the real state of support for Charles and Camilla.

 

[ladongas]

Perhaps HM will give Camilla the style of Princess of the U.K. in her own right.

 

[Ish]

It would be hilarious if the desires of some members of the public to punish her lead to her actually being elevated in a way that Diana would have never received, and in a way that no female consort has received previously.

Seriously, if the fanatic fans make it so that Camilla doesn't use her husband's title by courtesy (as Diana would have received, as the Queen Mother received, as Queen Mary received, and so on), but instead was made a Princess of the Realm in her own right (which didn't happen for Diana, HMQM, Queen Mary, and so on), that would be hilarious.

 

[EllieCat]

When they married was there not a statement issued that when Charles became King Camilla would be known as The Princess Consort?

I've often wondered if that will be case when HM dies (which I'm not looking forward to), and Charles automatically becomes King and Camilla becomes The Princess Consort as stated... and then a year or so later, when Charles is officially crowned at a Coronation, then perhaps Camilla may become Queen, having spent her time as Princess Consort.

WHo knows?

Anyway, I think Charles will be a good king, and I'm not going to worry if Camilla is Queen, or Princess Consort; but I think it will end up being as it is now, Camilla IS The Princess of Wales, but just called by another title (DoC). I think she WILL be Queen but once again, just called by another title (PC).

 

[Iluvbertie]

The problem is that currently she is using one of Charles' title - Duchess of Cornwall to his Duke of Cornwall - a title he has held since 6th February, 1952.

When he becomes King there is only one female title for his wife - that of Queen.

For her to have a lower title - such as Princess - will say the marriage is morganatic which is not a concept that exists in Britain and was specifically denied Edward VIII when he asked for that option. Having had her use the Cornwall title now for 15 years they would also have a problem with that option as they haven't denied her the right to equal status with him since the marriage.

The comparison between Queen and Duchess of Cornwall simply doesn't work as Charles holds the Cornwall title.

 

[cepe]

This forum is giving too much credence to the recent polls IMO. In recent years not one major poll has proved to be correct.

Election 2010 - Victory for Labour: result Conservative led coalition
Election 2015 - Labour victory (majority government) : result Conservative government
referendum 2016 - Remain: result - Leave
Election 2017 - Conservative win (massive) - Conservative minority Gov.

The pundits that delivered these results ( and this was all the major research companies) have said that Brits don't tell the truth when asked. Inbuilt distrust of polls.

I am not convinced of these royal poll results at all.

 

[Osipi]

I think Royal Norway has hit on something here. Next year after all this Dianamania has died down in September (I'm hoping), there will be a lot of focus on Charles as he turns 70.

Charles and Camilla's PR staff would be wise to promote this and have interviews, TV documentaries on Charles' life and William and Harry actively speaking out about their father. It is the perfect time for some positive reinforcement about the man who will be king.

One of the nicer aspects of doing this is that as we look back through the Diana and Charles years, there isn't overly much that Charles ever did to denigrate, insult and disparage his ex wife in public. That is something the public isn't too very aware of. No matter what, Charles and Camilla have moved on with their lives without Diana being a focus point. Camilla has grown to be a very well respected member of the BRF and has been honored by HM the Queen by being honoring her with the GCVO and appointing her to HM's Privy Counsel. To me, that tells me that HM more than accepts that Camilla will be Queen but even encourages it.

 

[muriel]

Well it is interesting.
On a more dismal note, should Charles pass before the Queen, what would Camilla's official title become?

I believe she would still be called HRH The Duchess of Cornwall should Charles predecease the Queen. Once the queen passes and William is King, Prince George would then be the Duke of Cornwall and Camilla most likely would have the title of The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall but be known as The Duchess of Cornwall most likely until George marries.

I think I got that right

If Prince Charles dies before becoming King, in the current reign, Camilla will indeed be the Dowager Duchess of Cornwall. In practice, I suspect Camilla will then be styled Princess Camilla or something similar.

 

[Scarebaby]

It seems to me the difficulty some people (myself included) have with warming to Camilla is not so much the woman herself. Yes, she made some mistakes, but who hasn't? It is pretty obvious to even the most casual observer that she and Charles were "made for each other" and should have been together from the beginning. Circumstances, and Charles' weaknesses, deemed otherwise.
When Diana entered the picture, she humanized Charles. Camilla is the opposite. She seems to encourage him to remain in his cocoon of privilege, to be the old fashioned fuddy duddy, the "my-valet-puts-toothpaste-on-my-toothbrush-for-me" royal who is out of touch, fussy and a bit peevish.
Because Camilla seems to encourage and probably protect that part of Charles, she does not endear herself to the public -- because she does not aid in endearing him to the public, she doesn't make him more human,more accessible. It must be very hard for her...in encouraging him to remain as she is, she keeps him happy. But the flip side is that she'll never get the approval of a segment of the population that sees her role differently.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I have the exact opposite view of Charles. He was 'in touch' and very much a man of the people before he was with Diana. As his marriage disintegrated he reverted more and more to the typical upper class nobleman, of Diana's standing, and lost touch and became 'dehumanised'. The valet with the toothbrush story was during the Diana years - and after he damaged him shoulder.

He is more in touch with the average person now than he was in the 80s - and that is Camilla - she has brought him back to where he was before Diana.

Most Diana fans don't look beyond her looks (I know Diana fans who claim she 'couldn't lie as she was young and beautiful' as if being young and beautiful meant she couldn't lie) to see the negative impact she had on Charles - making him miserable from almost day 1. He lost his common touch, he lost his ability to laugh at himself, he took himself way too seriously when Diana was around but now he is the fun loving man he was in the 70s again.

Sadly the public don't want that - they want the miserable man in an unhappy marriage so that Diana could be happy.

 

[Denville]

This forum is giving too much credence to the recent polls IMO. In recent years not one major poll has proved to be correct.

Election 2010 - Victory for Labour: result Conservative led coalition
Election 2015 - Labour victory (majority government) : result Conservative government
referendum 2016 - Remain: result - Leave
Election 2017 - Conservative win (massive) - Conservative minority Gov.

I am not convinced of these royal poll results at all.

I agree,. I think that there are still people who really have it in for Charles but a lot of people just don't take that much interest in the RF and at times they are influenced by the latest piece of news or in this case the loads of TV thngs about Diana which of course don't show C in a good light. (they alos don't always show Diana in a good light). so at the moment, its probable that there is more "anti Charles" feeling for a short time.
and the succession is laid down in law, not really likely to be changed so its going to happen that Charles will succeed his mother.. and be King. And I think that when that happens, the public will accept it and will accept his wife as queen which has always been the rule...

 

[muriel]

Agree.

Frankly this current round of C&C negative chat is the creation of the tabloid press and very few others are interested in the UK. Running polls at the same time as stories of Diana was only ever going to produce one result.

Camilla should be Queen and there will no riots and the monarchy will not fall.

The fact that 20 years of hard work has been destroyed in the polls in a month with all the documentaries which William and Harry have been involved in as well as the others shows how slight is the real state of support for Charles and Camilla.

My own view is that a lot of the tabloid press stories around her 20th death anniversary are the work of Richard Kay and the Daily Mail. Print media is dying a slow and painful death, and the MailOnline, despite its vast audience, is unable to make money even now. This is one of the few ways they can attract some attention. None of this is what I think of as lasting damage, or, IMO, undoes "20 years of hard work".

As regards the polls, I have no idea how large the sample sizes were, or how representative the samples were of British society at large.

Once the slow news season of summer ends and we are in September, all of this will be forgotten, and the Daily Mail will start to focus on Brexit, whipping up an anti-EU frenzy and general celebrity gossip.

 

[Denville]

There are literally dozens of TV programmes as well. Diana still sells, and on this 20th anniversary esp with the sons doing programmes and so on, there is bound to be more interest. however, I don't believe that it is going ot have a lasting effect on C's popularity.
I think that people who dislike Charles, are pleased because there is some "bad press" for him and they hope that it will mean he is less popular and that maybe he will have trouble when he succeeds, in having Camilla to have the title queen. but I don't think that will happen. Just because there is a bit of fuss now does not equate IMO to enough "bad press" to make Charles give up the idea of her being titled Queen.

 

[Osipi]

It seems to me the difficulty some people (myself included) have with warming to Camilla is not so much the woman herself. Yes, she made some mistakes, but who hasn't? It is pretty obvious to even the most casual observer that she and Charles were "made for each other" and should have been together from the beginning. Circumstances, and Charles' weaknesses, deemed otherwise.
When Diana entered the picture, she humanized Charles. Camilla is the opposite. She seems to encourage him to remain in his cocoon of privilege, to be the old fashioned fuddy duddy, the "my-valet-puts-toothpaste-on-my-toothbrush-for-me" royal who is out of touch, fussy and a bit peevish.
Because Camilla seems to encourage and probably protect that part of Charles, she does not endear herself to the public -- because she does not aid in endearing him to the public, she doesn't make him more human,more accessible. It must be very hard for her...in encouraging him to remain as she is, she keeps him happy. But the flip side is that she'll never get the approval of a segment of the population that sees her role differently.

I have to disagree with this. Not because I think you are wrong but because I see things perhaps from a different perspective as it relates to my own experiences in life.

When seeing Camilla now that I've come to get to *know* her more by actually following her here on TRF and searching for more information outside of the tabloid headlines that were basically all that formed my opinions on Camilla back during the 80s and 90s, I've come to see a Camilla that perhaps a lot of people don't see.

When things go wrong in life and there's no finding a solution or finding any sense of peace and serenity, especially as in this case with Charles' marriage, it can be quite overwhelming and distressful and it feels like there is no where to turn. The greatest blessing during these times is a best friend. One that believes in you, one that supports you no matter what and one that is always there for you when you need them. A true port in storm that helps you keep your feet on the ground and anchored in reality and gives you the courage to forge ahead. I believe it was because Camilla was this kind of support system for Charles when the marriage had gotten to the point where there was no hope of it ever working out, that Charles was able to maintain and keep going ahead with his life. I think it was Camilla that made it much easier to maintain keeping a public facade on the "irrevocably broken" marriage as long as it did until there was no other option than to divorce.

I know this by experience. I had such a best friend when my first marriage was beyond repair. That's all it was too. Platonic best friends. When I needed support and encouragement or anything at all, it was there for me. It did happen that I lost contact with my best friend for years after the divorce was final but upon meeting again, that friendship was still as strong as ever and this October we'll be celebrating 20 years of marriage. This is why I do believe that Camilla is perhaps the best thing that's ever happened to Charles. It wasn't just an affair. It wasn't just a fling but it was years of building a strong, trusting and intimate relationship as friends outside of a romantic involvement that has made their marriage one that is truly a happy union between two people that sincerely love each other.

I've come to see the strength and resolve in Camilla that tells me that no matter what the public thinks, no matter what title she is "known" by or whether or not she sits in Westminster Abbey being crowned along side her Charles, her top priority now as it has been for a long while is to be the best friend she has always been to Charles and she will support him in any way that she humanly can. She's a person that can gladly put her husband first and foremost in her life simply because she loves him.

 

[Denville]

but the pont being made is not that Camilla is the "perfect person" for Charles but that she si seen as enabling/ encouraging his "fussy old man" who is Edwardian in his habits image.
Whereas Diana seemed for a time to "lighten" Charles' image.. by herself being a young lively pretty modern woman, and encouraging him to be affectionate in public, to be seen holding his children, to wear more fashionable clothes etc.

 

[Osipi]

In that respect, I'd say Camilla took Charles for who he was without trying to change him. Diana tried to mold him into an image that she perceived. I agree with Iluvbertie that when all was said and done and he married Camilla, he became his own person comfortable in his own skin.

 

[Denville]

Yes but it is how he's perceived. I think it is true that in his first years with Diana, he did seem to be trying to be flexible and a modern father.

Camilla does take him as he is, and tries tot make him comfortable.. and she has her own house to retreat to when perhaps his fussiness and old fashioned ways get a bit tiresome.
I think he's certainly a lot happier with Camilla, but I can understand the point that nowadays, perhaps he does come across more and more as a bit of an Edwardian fuddy duddy, nice but a bit old fashioned.

 

[Osipi]

Y'know, I think we've hit on something when it comes to Camilla and the public which is the topic of this thread. The word "perception". Everyone sees things differently and with that, public opinion is able to be shaped by those that put the message out there of who these people really are. That's why we have books and interviews and documentaries and of course, right there at the front of it all are the tabloids.

Its easy to see how public opinion can be so swayed by the front runner tabloids that have the sensational headlines to draw people in and present the image of what the reporters want their public to see.

Maybe we're the lucky ones that actually care enough to get all different kinds of perspectives. Its why we're here. We discuss and we disagree and agree and revise opinions and fortify our information. The general public does not do this. The more I think about it, I believe the BRF knows this. Their PR people know this and in the long run, public opinion is like the wind. Blows in different directions. If its blowing in one's favor today, its also very possible that it'll change and blow in the opposite direction tomorrow.

 

[Denville]

well that's the point that the poster (sorry I can't remember who) was making about Camilla.. that she is SEEN as encouraging charles in his "old fuddy duddy" eccentric Edwardian mode.. whereas Di was seen as moderniising and humanising him.
and yes of course, the BRF's court knows all too well that public opinion is very ficlkle.. so oen cant' take too much stock of polls and headlines int the papers or even what people chat about around the water cooler.
And I think Charles has learned now to ignore the occasional burst of "anti Charles" sentiment..
But it doesn't stop the royals and hteir staff from trying to get them good PR and creating a climate where they aere basically liked.. just that they know enough not to be cast down by a brief period of unpopularity. the way out such a trough, for a Royal, is usually to be seen working hard and getting on with the job, and people then forget..
Of courset there are people who will never never forgive Charles and Camilla, no matter what.. and there are those who will never forgive Diana for what they see as HER faults.. but most of the public is swayed, and so I don't think that Charles needs to worry too much.

 

[Scarebaby]

I'm glad my observations have sparked some lively debate here! Even if most disagree with me LOL

My post was actually more about Camilla than about Charles--about how hard it must be for Camilla, knowing that if she makes Charles happy (by "loving him just as he is" or by "encouraging his Edwardian ways" depending on how you view it) then she'll make a segment of the public unhappy about her. She's kind of between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Denville]

I should think she's more concerned about makng her husband happy and being happy herself, than bothering too much what the public think....

 

[wyevale]

Indeed so Denville, that is what matters.. pleasing so capricious a thing as 'the public' is an impossible and fruitless task...

 

[DeeT]

If Camilla and Charles were more concerned about their happiness than what the public thinks why would they approve of Penny Junor's biography? It is described as a 'definitive account' .. 'star-crossed love story of the past 50 years', according to Harper Collins.

 

[Nico]

If Camilla and Charles were more concerned about their happiness than what the public thinks why would they approve of Penny Junor's biography? It is described as a 'definitive account' .. 'star-crossed love story of the past 50 years', according to Harper Collins.

I did'nt know that Penny Junnor's book was the official biography of the Duchess of Cornwall ,and approved as such by Clarence House.
Wait ... it's not !