Camilla and The Public

[Curryong]

Of course she was called the Duchess of Cornwall because of public opinion at the time.

The British public don't take that much notice of the royal family as a general rule, they are just there in the background of people's lives. It's taken about three years for many people in the tabloid media to stop addressing the Duchess of Cambridge as Kate Middleton, BTW.

If Camilla was suddenly referred to as the Princess of Wales Mr and Mrs Britain would automatically think Diana, and be puzzled IMO. It would take about ten years for every commentator/journalist to comply, and by that time Charles and Camilla may well be King and consort! Maybe they should have begun as they meant to continue?

Alexandra was Princess of Wales for nearly forty years. It must have been strange for the public when George stopped being Duke of York and he and Mary became the Prince and Princess of Wales.

 

[Iluvbertie]

George and May, of course, had over 10 months as Duke of Cornwall and York before becoming Prince and Princess of Wales and people had no real trouble adjusting - just as they won't have a problem when Charles becomes King and Kate becomes Duchess of Cornwall. She will have Camilla's title before she can have Diana's because Cornwall is automatic while the Wales title has to be created and Charles may take minutes, hours, days, weeks, months or even years, before giving his son that title.

 

[Dman]

I'm guessing it won't take very long for Charles to create William as the next Prince of Wales.

I firmly believe Camilla is just fine with her current title and most likely will be very happy with the titles of Queen or Princess Consort. The problem will likely be with public and media opinion. That'll cause a headache for palace officials and royal family.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I wouldn't be surprised if Charles takes a long time to create William Prince of Wales - insisting that Kate uses the same title that Camilla has used for a long time. Charles has been Prince of Wales for well over 50 years now so it is perfectly possible that he will leave that title vacant for two or three years. I do think he will also ask the Welsh Assembly to approve the title and that isn't a given either.

 

[Dman]

I wouldn't be surprised if Charles takes a long time to create William Prince of Wales - insisting that Kate uses the same title that Camilla has used for a long time. Charles has been Prince of Wales for well over 50 years now so it is perfectly possible that he will leave that title vacant for two or three years. I do think he will also ask the Welsh Assembly to approve the title and that isn't a given either.

I'm not sure about that. I think he would want his heir to take on the title of Prince of Wales at least within a year after the Coronation. I don't believe the Welsh people will have a problem embracing their new and younger Prince and Princess of Wales just as soon as they can.

 

[muriel]

I do think he will also ask the Welsh Assembly to approve the title and that isn't a given either.

I would be surprised if that happened. It is a royal prerogative, and one that is in the gift of the monarch of the day. Why hand that over to a devolved assembly? If you do that, you may find the next title (say Duke & Duchess of Cambridge) that the monarch hands out has to have the approval of the local council (Cambridgeshire County Council)!

 

[Iluvbertie]

It is an acknowledgement that the Welsh people should have a say in a title that includes their country - especially when there is a call amongst some Welsh for a greater say in their country and even some advocating Welsh independence.


Cambridge is an English title and so is perfectly within the gift of a King who is still essentially seen as English by many people in Britain and to the Welsh the English are still a conquering power.

I'm not sure about that. I think he would want his heir to take on the title of Prince of Wales at least within a year after the Coronation. I don't believe the Welsh people will have a problem embracing their new and younger Prince and Princess of Wales just as soon as they can.

So we agree.


A year after the Coronation would be at least 2 years after Charles becomes King. The tradition for over 200 years now is for the coronation to take place in the summer after the first anniversary of the accession of the new monarch e.g. if The Queen died this week the coronation would be next summer (2016) but if she say died in December then it wouldn't be until the summer of 2017.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

When we assume that the new creation of the Prince of Wales will be done one or two years after the King's coronation, let us assume the following, the Queen ends her Reign this year (read: passes away):

During the Queen's life:
HRH The Duke of Cambridge

Since the Queen's death and his father becoming King:
HRH The Duke of Cornwall (in Scotland: HRH The Duke of Rothesay)

At earliest in 2017, most likely 2018 or later:
HRH The Prince of Wales (in Scotland: HRH The Duke of Rothesay)

 

[Iluvbertie]

One addition - from the Queen's death until he is created Prince of Wales (IF he is created Prince of Wales) William will be HRH The Duke of Cornwall AND Cambridge officially except when in Scotland where he will be The Duke of Rothesay. That is in line with the precedence of George V who was officially HRH The Duke of Cornwall and York from Queen Victoria's death until his own creation as Prince of Wales in November, 1901.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Yes, that is true. When the Duke of Edinburgh dies before the Queen, his son Charles will also become the 2nd Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich but he will never be known like that because that title will get "lost" in the enormous amass of titles the Prince holds: HRH The Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Duke of Edinburgh, etc. etc. etc....

Prince William indeed will be known as "Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge", south of the Hadrian Wall, that is.

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

Yes, that is true. When the Duke of Edinburgh dies before the Queen, his son Charles will also become the 2nd Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich but he will never be known like that because that title will get "lost" in the enormous amass of titles the Prince holds: HRH The Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Duke of Edinburgh, etc. etc. etc....

Prince William indeed will be known as "Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge", south of the Hadrian Wall, that is.

I thought the Duke of Edinburgh reverts to the Crown upon Prince Phillip's death, with the intention of making Prince Edward the next Duke of Edinburgh?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I thought the Duke of Edinburgh reverts to the Crown upon Prince Phillip's death, with the intention of making Prince Edward the next Duke of Edinburgh?

Not when the Queen is still alive. Prince Philip's eldest son, The Prince of Wales, is the "heir of the body male" to his peerages. When Charles becomes King, these peerages will merge in the Crown and "fall free" for an evential new creation. Then he can create his youngest brother Prince Edward the new 1st Duke of Edinburgh of a new creation, if that is in His Majesty's pleasure and will....

 

[Jacknch]

Time to move on and go back to discussing Camilla and the Public, which is what this thread is about. Discussions about the Duke of Edinburgh title, reversion of titles to the crown etc etc can be carried out in the appropriate thread.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Nice article about the evolution of public opinion and Camilla in advance of the trip to Ireland:
Charmed by Camilla: We profile Prince Charles' wife - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

 

[Rudolph]

YouGov conducted a poll between 3-4 Sept 2015 on the popularity of the monarchy.

The question of Camilla's future title was asked.

16% believe Camilla should be called ‘Queen’ when Charles becomes King compared to 38% that prefer the title of ‘Princess Consort’. Just less than a third (32%) feel she should be given no title at all. 13% don't know.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/08/monarchy-here-stay/

 

[eya]

Very interested poll but do not understand.
When Charles become King why Camilla as his wife not to get the Queen's title? Because she is the second wife? Because Diana was the first wife and was very popular?

Camilla excluded to take the title of Princess of Wales. She had to respect as he said and osipi memory of Diana. But the Queen's title is different. I see no reason why not get him. All these years showed dedication and work for the monarchy. I think that it deserves.

 

[ladongas]

Very interested poll but do not understand.
When Charles become King why Camilla as his wife not to get the Queen's title? Because she is the second wife? Because Diana was the first wife and was very popular?

Because Prince Charles/Clarence house announced, before the marriage, "It is intended that The Duchess will be known as HRH The Princess Consort when The Prince of Wales accedes to The Throne."

This seems to be a pretty definite statement/promise to his future subjects. We don't know why this was decided, but it was.

 

[Roslyn]

Very interested poll but do not understand.
When Charles become King why Camilla as his wife not to get the Queen's title? Because she is the second wife? Because Diana was the first wife and was very popular?

Because a surprisingly large number of people believe that Camilla is a home-wrecking witch who cast a spell on Charles that caused him to fall out of love with the saintly Diana and leave her and run to Camilla's arms and that since she is to blame, that it is all her fault and that therefore she should be punished by not being known as Queen Consort in due course.

 

[Mbruno]

YouGov conducted a poll between 3-4 Sept 2015 on the popularity of the monarchy.

The question of Camilla's future title was asked.

16% believe Camilla should be called ‘Queen’ when Charles becomes King compared to 38% that prefer the title of ‘Princess Consort’. Just less than a third (32%) feel she should be given no title at all. 13% don't know.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/08/monarchy-here-stay/

Again, as Richard Kay wrote in a DM article that was recently discussed in another forum, Camilla is not as popular as Prince Charles and his Clarence House courtiers may once have thought.

I guess that YouGov poll is clearly the nail in the coffin of any hopes some TRF members may have had of seeing a "Queen Camilla" someday. At least for now .... (public opinion sometimes does change quite abruptly over time)

 

[wyevale]

I [for one] consider The Duchess' behaviour as a member of the Royal family as irreproachable, and think she is a perfectly suitable woman to be Queen Consort.

What others who want to deny her her LEGAL rights, [and who wish to punish her for her imagined sins] are really saying is that those who find happiness after unsuccessful first marriages, deserve to be pilloried as 'lesser mortals', and that it is acceptable to discriminate against people in this way. I wonder if they dare treat people personally known to them [who fit this criteria] in this shabby manner, or whether they reserve their bitterness and prejudice for someone who cannot answer back ?

In a society where 1 in 2 marriages end in divorce, their attitude and prejudice are outmoded at best, and HATEFUL at worst..

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Because a surprisingly large number of people believe that Camilla is a home-wrecking witch who cast a spell on Charles that caused him to fall out of love with the saintly Diana and leave her and run to Camilla's arms and that since she is to blame, that it is all her fault and that therefore she should be punished by not being known as Queen Consort in due course.

I consider the Duchess as one of the assets of the royal family whom will become one of the most beloved royals. Wait and see. In 10 years time Camilla has become such a natural part of the royal family and she is able to become a sort of Princess Lilian type. She is a wonderful lady. The total opposite of flat, boring and predictable Catherine.

 

[Dman]

Camilla has made it known years ago, she don't want the title of Her Majesty The Queen. She is the one that prefer the title, HRH The Princess Consort.

 

[Pranter]

I wonder if she might of felt differently if she had been his first/only wife. I kinda think so.


LaRae

 

[Mbruno]

I consider the Duchess as one of the assets of the royal family whom will become one of the most beloved royals. Wait and see. In 10 years time Camilla has become such a natural part of the royal family and she is able to become a sort of Princess Lilian type. She is a wonderful lady. The total opposite of flat, boring and predictable Catherine.

I think that's a bit of wishful thinking on your part. Camilla has been around as Charles' wife for quite some time now and she certainly has not become one of the "most beloved royals". I don't see any reason why that would change in the future, especially as Camilla grows older and cuts down on her public engagements.

As I see it, Camilla keeps a low profile to avoid attracting too much attention and generating controversy. She rarely gives interviews (not even with Charles) and is not particularly active in international organizations as other European royal consorts like Sylvia, Mathilde and Maxima are. She does an OK job then, but nothing particularly outstanding. Regardless of Diana's personal issues and problems, Camilla certainly doesn't have the same popular charisma which Diana had and I don't think she actually aspires to have it.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Camilla has made it known years ago, she don't want the title of Her Majesty The Queen. She is the one that prefer the title, HRH The Princess Consort.

The only time I have ever heard Camilla speak on this matter was when asked on an overseas tour and her reply was along the lines of 'we will have to wait and see'.

We actually don't know what she wants. We know what the intention is but we have also been told that to be Princess Consort will require legislation in the British parliament to actually formally strip her of the title of Queen and to thus make the marriage unequal and morganatic - something that was argued wasn't possible for Edward VIII.

 

[Mbruno]

The only time I have ever heard Camilla speak on this matter was when asked on an overseas tour and her reply was along the lines of 'we will have to wait and see'.

We actually don't know what she wants. We know what the intention is but we have also been told that to be Princess Consort will require legislation in the British parliament to actually formally strip her of the title of Queen and to thus make the marriage unequal and morganatic - something that was argued wasn't possible for Edward VIII.

Not necessarily. Clarence House and Buckingham Palace sources themselves have argued that British law does not regulate the titles of the king's consort and that it is entirely up to the king to decide how his wife will be called.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Parliament of the day said that legislation was needed as a wife takes the titles of her husband and to give her the title of Princess means it is a morganatic marriage - or unequal.


BP and CH have their views and the government another.


This could easily end up in court - on the principle of the issue not the issue itself.

 

[Skippyboo]

If Charles issued LP creating Camilla a Princess of the UK like the Queen did with Philip making him a Prince. Camilla who still would have the Queen title could choose to use the lower Princess title. Sort of what she is doing now using DoCornwall instead of Princess of Wales. The Queen title would not need to be taken away. She can be Queen but go by Mrs Charles Mountbatten-Windsor if she wanted to.

To me, if she is going to do the duties of a Queen, she should use her legally entitled title of Queen then.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Rudolph]

This from 2007. I don't envy Charles when the time comes.

The protocol for Camilla’s future became muddled when Charles announced his plans to marry her in 2005. Clarence House officials were conscious that Camilla had been Charles’s lover while he was married to Diana and that both of them were divorcees.

Virtually every opinion poll at the time suggested that while the public were happy for them to marry for their own happiness, they did not want Camilla to become Queen.

Aides came up with the compromise of making her Duchess of Cornwall while he was Prince of Wales – to avoid Diana’s former title of Princess of Wales. They said that after his accession to the throne, she would become Princess Consort.

But even before the wedding they were contradicted by the Government. Constitutional Affairs minister Christopher Leslie said the marriage was not “morganatic”, implying the monarch’s titles could be passed on to the wife and any children from the union.

Legal sources said at the time that only an Act of Parliament could be used to prevent Camilla becoming Queen if she was married to Charles when he became King.

The precedent was set during the abdication crisis of 1936 when Edward VIII wanted to marry his divorced, American lover Wallis Simpson. Advised that the sovereign’s wife would become Queen, that only new laws could change the situation and that the public would not accept it, he chose to quit the throne.

Labour MP Andrew Mackinley, whose Parliamentary Question forced Mr Leslie to reveal the marriage’s constitutional small print, said at the time that the admission was “a bombshell”. He said: “The royals knew she would become Queen but they wanted people to think that she wouldn’t. Now the truth is finally out.”

Read more: Camilla WILL be Queen | UK | News | Daily Express

 

[Queen Camilla]

Interesting that the polls that have Camilla down are the polls that are conducted on behalf of the Daily Mail or the Daily Express both known Camilla bashers.

These polls are deliberately leading so they can get the results these publications want to print.