The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1241  
Old 09-05-2017, 07:27 AM
JessRulz's Avatar
Administrator
Blog Editor
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,447
A number of posts debating the ever-circular Charles-Diana-Camilla triangle have been removed. Unless you are specifically linking, to the moderating teams' satisfaction, Diana to the 'Camilla and the Public' topic, Diana is off-topic and further posts discussing her will be deleted.
__________________

__________________
**TRF Rules and FAQ**
Reply With Quote
  #1242  
Old 10-02-2017, 09:50 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Washington D.C., United States
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I have to disagree with this. Not because I think you are wrong but because I see things perhaps from a different perspective as it relates to my own experiences in life.

When seeing Camilla now that I've come to get to *know* her more by actually following her here on TRF and searching for more information outside of the tabloid headlines that were basically all that formed my opinions on Camilla back during the 80s and 90s, I've come to see a Camilla that perhaps a lot of people don't see.

When things go wrong in life and there's no finding a solution or finding any sense of peace and serenity, especially as in this case with Charles' marriage, it can be quite overwhelming and distressful and it feels like there is no where to turn. The greatest blessing during these times is a best friend. One that believes in you, one that supports you no matter what and one that is always there for you when you need them. A true port in storm that helps you keep your feet on the ground and anchored in reality and gives you the courage to forge ahead. I believe it was because Camilla was this kind of support system for Charles when the marriage had gotten to the point where there was no hope of it ever working out, that Charles was able to maintain and keep going ahead with his life. I think it was Camilla that made it much easier to maintain keeping a public facade on the "irrevocably broken" marriage as long as it did until there was no other option than to divorce.

I know this by experience. I had such a best friend when my first marriage was beyond repair. That's all it was too. Platonic best friends. When I needed support and encouragement or anything at all, it was there for me. It did happen that I lost contact with my best friend for years after the divorce was final but upon meeting again, that friendship was still as strong as ever and this October we'll be celebrating 20 years of marriage. This is why I do believe that Camilla is perhaps the best thing that's ever happened to Charles. It wasn't just an affair. It wasn't just a fling but it was years of building a strong, trusting and intimate relationship as friends outside of a romantic involvement that has made their marriage one that is truly a happy union between two people that sincerely love each other.

I've come to see the strength and resolve in Camilla that tells me that no matter what the public thinks, no matter what title she is "known" by or whether or not she sits in Westminster Abbey being crowned along side her Charles, her top priority now as it has been for a long while is to be the best friend she has always been to Charles and she will support him in any way that she humanly can. She's a person that can gladly put her husband first and foremost in her life simply because she loves him.
I prefer to focus on what Camilla's doing now. Trying to excuse her presence in a marriage from an emotional-friend standpoint still means she was an obstacle for the marriage. Her presence as a best friend helped to doom the marriage and led to the physical affair. Trying to "laud" her for that is weird. That's why the marriage was doomed, lol. Excusing or lauding her for that makes people dig deeper in their dislike for her. If Charles hadn't been married - yes - what she did would have been admirable. Since he was, it isn't. Sorry.

That's why now I like to focus more on what I see Camilla doing today. Camilla seems to have settled into her role nicely and she's kinda killing it. She's really doing the most to make sure she's a good working royal and a good princess. I think she is now a respected royal - even if she will honestly never be liked. I can't stand her but I respect her - or at least her position. She's done good work, which for me is a far better defense of who she is now.

For that reason (and that reason alone because I still hate what she did to Charles' marriage on a visceral level) she should be Queen when Charles becomes King.

I think her relationship with the public will only continue to improve based on her current actions IF folks stop trying to defend the indefensible. That just makes it worse and triggers folks becoming entrenched.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1243  
Old 10-02-2017, 09:55 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Washington D.C., United States
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeT View Post
If Camilla and Charles were more concerned about their happiness than what the public thinks why would they approve of Penny Junor's biography? It is described as a 'definitive account' .. 'star-crossed love story of the past 50 years', according to Harper Collins.
I agree with this.

It's also why before Charles married Camilla they put out so much press that she "would be Princess Consort" when he became King. It was a bait and switch to get the public to not be so against him marrying her - and then they began a careful plan to elevate Camilla after that through good works.

It's kinda working - but it is still definitely a bait and switch.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1244  
Old 10-02-2017, 10:13 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by FashionMaven View Post
I prefer to focus on what Camilla's doing now. Trying to excuse her presence in a marriage from an emotional-friend standpoint still means she was an obstacle for the marriage. Her presence as a best friend helped to doom the marriage and led to the physical affair. Trying to "laud" her for that is weird. That's why the marriage was doomed, lol. Excusing or lauding her for that makes people dig deeper in their dislike for her. If Charles hadn't been married - yes - what she did would have been admirable. Since he was, it isn't. Sorry.
Think about it this way. If Charles' marriage had been a happy and healthy one and secure, no one and their wild horses would have affected it. People usually don't go looking for a repairman until the appliance has broken down.

I agree with you that the Camilla we see today is a strong consort for Charles and has served the "Firm" admirably over the years. It is her role and her support of Charles in the here and now that is most important. People are genuinely warming up to her and those that have met her find her to be a warm hearted, down to earth person with a good outlook on life.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1245  
Old 10-02-2017, 10:32 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Washington D.C., United States
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Think about it this way. If Charles' marriage had been a happy and healthy one and secure, no one and their wild horses would have affected it. People usually don't go looking for a repairman until the appliance has broken down.
The appliance in this case didn't break down by itself, I don't find this to be an adequate reasoning to excuse Camilla's active part in the breakdown of it. People say this all the time to excuse an adulterer/mistress in marriage - and it doesn't hold well in my opinion.

Quote:
I agree with you that the Camilla we see today is a strong consort for Charles and has served the "Firm" admirably over the years. It is her role and her support of Charles in the here and now that is most important. People are genuinely warming up to her and those that have met her find her to be a warm hearted, down to earth person with a good outlook on life.
Well then that's what everyone should focus on, imo.

And when people rightfully point out the harm she caused that should simply be accepted and acknowledge without trying to justify it. Justification is actually a defensive maneuver meant to distance Camilla from her wrongdoing. Best to just accept the criticism, acknowledge it but don't feed it and get on with her royal duties. That's what she's doing and I think that's a good way to help her with the public.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1246  
Old 10-02-2017, 10:41 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by FashionMaven View Post
The appliance in this case didn't break down by itself, I don't find this to be an adequate reasoning to excuse Camilla's active part in the breakdown of it. People say this all the time to excuse an adulterer/mistress in marriage - and it doesn't hold well in my opinion.
When we set the stage to really look at things objectively, we find that there were many, many more players involved than just three. Out of all of them, what remains today is two people still strongly supporting each other. That is the gist of it all. The rest needs to be filed away in the ancient history folder.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1247  
Old 10-02-2017, 11:00 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Washington D.C., United States
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
When we set the stage to really look at things objectively, we find that there were many, many more players involved than just three. Out of all of them, what remains today is two people still strongly supporting each other. That is the gist of it all. The rest needs to be filed away in the ancient history folder.
Well, generally speaking, I think we do better when we allow people to feel upset about what happened. I think Camilla does better there too. She allows it but doesn't feed into it or even try to defend it. She just focuses on doing her best to be the best royal she can be.

She hasn't won me over per se - but I respect the work she's doing and I can sympathize with her feelings before the marriage when she wasn't allowed into the BRF. That doesn't excuse for me what came later but I can understand and sympathize with her position better.

But like we said - I prefer to focus on what she's doing now. Even thinking of how long they've stuck together still leaves a bad taste because that shouldn't have happened. Can't praise her for it - at best I can just acknowledge that it was very unfortunate and look at her actions today.

I do think she's trying very hard to be the best she can be and that helps her more in my eyes than any defense attempts on her part or others.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1248  
Old 10-03-2017, 12:18 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,916
There is a 'star-crossed lovers' narrative that seems to have been peddled by certain writers and journalist over the last few years. It seems to consist of Charles and Camilla falling deeply in love but realising that their love could never be, because of tradition and expectations.

In fact, Charles didn't propose to Camilla before she married APB. He apparently whiffle waffled about being too young, and, (it's been surmised), because Camilla had had lovers and was therefore unacceptable to the BRF. There's never been any evidence that he spoke to his parents about his feelings for Camilla during this period, though he clearly was in love.

It's just a shame that Charles didn't make his mind up that Camilla was 'non-negotiable' to him then, before two marriages were wrecked and four children affected.

It's often taken for granted that Camilla was as deeply in love as Charles was. Yes, she was deeply in love, just not with the POW, though she was probably fond of him.

However, every indication is that it was Andrew PB who was in her sights, that she was determined to become his wife, even though he was a prominent womaniser, and she adored him.

Charles went out with Camilla while Andrew was serving in the army in Ireland, so neither of them minded cheating on a man Camilla was obsessed with marrying. It is very very doubtful that even if Charles had mentioned marriage Camilla would have accepted, IMO.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1249  
Old 10-03-2017, 12:55 AM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 13,465
Don’t Penny Junor ever get tired of trying to rewrite history? She and so many others have been trying to do this for such a long time.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #1250  
Old 10-03-2017, 01:14 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Torrance, United States
Posts: 3,409
Quote:
I do think she's trying very hard to be the best she can be and that helps her more in my eyes than any defense attempts on her part or others.
I agree and at this point in time this is all that she can do.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1251  
Old 10-03-2017, 05:24 AM
Queen Claude's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Don’t Penny Junor ever get tired of trying to rewrite history? She and so many others have been trying to do this for such a long time.
I am not a big fan of Junor's but it is not a given that the first version of the story was the true version. IIRC even Andrew Morton said that "her true story" does not equate to "the true story".

I understand the points that are being made above that perhaps it would be wiser to focus on the present and not try to explain or justify what went on in the past but that does not mean that there is not additional information that is valid. Also I do think that there may be people who are captivated by the Charles and Camilla love story, although I agree with the point above that the "star-crossed lovers" version may have actually been more one-sided in the earlier years.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1252  
Old 10-03-2017, 06:51 AM
Nico's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Don’t Penny Junor ever get tired of trying to rewrite history? She and so many others have been trying to do this for such a long time.
"Rewriting History" implies that the real story is well known. As far i know it's not the case (and don't talk to me about Morton).
I think Junor was not too far off the mark...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1253  
Old 10-03-2017, 08:19 AM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 13,465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
"Rewriting History" implies that the real story is well known. As far i know it's not the case (and don't talk to me about Morton).
I think Junor was not too far off the mark...
She and Morton (among others) just don’t get enough. They’ve been rewriting these people’s lives for a long time now.

It’s like enough is enough.

Part of the public has embraced Camilla, so let’s just leave it at that.
__________________

__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
camilla, duchess of cornwall, public opinion


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
austria birthday carl gustaf chris o'neill crown princess mary crown princess victoria current events denmark duchess of cambridge eveningwear earl of snowdon family french general news gloucester hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta margarita infanta sofia italy iñaki urdangarín juan urdangarín king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia liechtenstein monarchy morgan news nobel 2017 prince alexander prince carl philip prince daniel prince felix prince gabriel prince harry prince liam prince nicholas prince oscar prince sebastian princess beatrice princess claire of luxembourg princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess mary casual style princess mary current events princess of asturias princess sofia princess sofia eveningwear princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen mathildes hats queen maxima queen silvia state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family the duchess of cambridge fashion vatican victoria



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:56 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises