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  #1121  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:00 PM
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But surely it also shows that a woman who has been dead for twenty years was and is still beloved by the British public. If she hadn't been and isn't, her name wouldn't come up. This survey shows that Charles's first marriage, its demise and the part Camilla played in it still lingers in the public memory.
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  #1122  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Maybe Queen Camilla continues to be a divisive idea because surveys keep on asking if they prefer her to a woman who's been dead for 20 years...
Exactly, and playing on the title "Queen", more or less implying that she will get the same title as the current Queen (and by that replace her). Some people just don't get the notion of "Consort"...
As she was, and we all know it, the most hated woman in uk, these numbers are pretty good IMO
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  #1123  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:44 PM
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How genuinely kind, decent, sane, people allow themselves to be manipulated by into taking part in polls by the Mirror, DM and others of that ilk, is beyond my understanding. The fact that a woman who has been dead for 20 years is included in the poll would be funny if it were not such a sick joke. Camilla has never sought to compete, yet polls that pit her against Diana continue. We all know that when there is no "real" news they whip up another hate fest about Camilla and all the well-schooled haters' hate!

The UK is in the process of great change and even greater hope for that change. Brexit happened and now the UK seeks to re-establish themselves as the sovereign nation that many thought (rightly or wrongly) had been diminished. For the tabloids to continue their assaults on Camilla only exploits narrow-minded vindictiveness that cares nothing for the "collateral damage" this causes to the way the international community sees the UK.

The Spanish State Visit was a roaring success, but how much of that success relied on the entire British Royal Family to do what they do best. They paved the way for talks on anti-terrorist information sharing, trade deals, etc. When they defame or demean Camilla they tarnish the standing of the Monarchy. My hope is that when the time comes and we face the facts of loss, mourning will overpower mean-spirited bigotry.
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  #1124  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:49 PM
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But two decades have now passed since that terrible accident in the Pont d’Alma underpass in Paris, and her memory is now just that – a memory. It should not continue to introduce unnecessary anomalies into the British constitution with regard to nomenclature in the House of Windsor.

Hail our future Queen Camilla says Andrew Roberts | Daily Mail Online
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  #1125  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Maybe Queen Camilla continues to be a divisive idea because surveys keep on asking if they prefer her to a woman who's been dead for 20 years...
Exactly, and isn't it time to move on from the past, the past is gone and dead and for the sake of those 2 wonderful boys of her's why is this still going on about Camilla being queen someday. The world is not going to end, the sun will still shine and life will go on for everyone......it is the darn media that wants to bring up all the drama of the past for they have nothing better to do. I don't fall for what the media says or does, we all know their game and it is called greed and stirring up trouble to sell more papers. Soon newspapers will be a thing of the past, something like dinosaurs...
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  #1126  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:58 PM
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What the heck is up with the last part of that Andrew Roberts article - announcement of Harry becoming Duke of Edinburgh? That's totally wrong.
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  #1127  
Old 07-15-2017, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
Exactly, and isn't it time to move on from the past, the past is gone and dead and for the sake of those 2 wonderful boys of her's why is this still going on about Camilla being queen someday.
Because cheerleaders like Penny Junor write a book on the anniversary year of Diana's death. A book that drags the late princess through the mud to make her rival look sympathetic is why that 3-way marriage will not go away. Diana was wrong, but Junor's book made her look like a psychotic mess. I wouldn't be surprised if Junor's book, or its excerpts, impacted the poll.

Look at the comment section of the Hail Queen Camilla article in the DM. To say many don't agree the writer's opinion on the subject is an understatement.
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  #1128  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:15 AM
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Camilla was never a young royal, she and Charles didn't have the typical fairy tale wedding, the way they got together was less than ideal, to put it mildly, and she never had cute royal babies. She was never going to be popular in the way that Kate is now. But popularity is superficial and doesn't last forever. In women it tends to be tied to the ability to look attractive in a nice dress. Respect, on the other hand, is different and much more valuable in the long term. That's why I've been glad to see Kate becoming more and more involved with a couple of causes she obviously really cares about. That's the sort of thing that will serve her well over the long term, and it's the sort of thing Camilla has quietly been doing for years now. Once Camilla is consort the work she does will get more attention and I think most people will quite easily accept her as Queen. If they don't, well, the British monarchy is in the enviable position of being solid enough that it doesn't have to always cave to public opinion.
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  #1129  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:22 AM
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Look, I'm a lifelong monarchist and I know that this is totally the wrong thread to debate this, but I do have a feeling (a dread in a way) that some of the great loyalty that the British people show the monarchy at present is going to drop substantially after the Queen's death. Charles is not very popular and Camilla is even less, and popularity and public opinion does matter a heck of a lot in a modern democracy, especially in tough times.
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  #1130  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Look, I'm a lifelong monarchist and I know that this is totally the wrong thread to debate this, but I do have a feeling (a dread in a way) that some of the great loyalty that the British people show the monarchy at present is going to drop substantially after the Queen's death. Charles is not very popular and Camilla is even less, and popularity and public opinion does matter a heck of a lot in a modern democracy.
Didn't people think the same after Queen Victoria's death, though?

I think there will be an adjustment period and Charles and Camilla will never inspire the level of respect and affection the current Queen has. They're simply not going to have enough time. The unfortunate reality for Charles is that he'll likely be a placeholder monarch, (I can't think of a more delicate term), with his best and most significant work having been done as the PoW. I also think right now people still think of Charles and Camilla as middle aged and middle age tends to be rough for royals. Once the Queen and DoE are gone C and C will become elderly in the public mind and that mental shift will make people much more forgiving, IMO.

And really, once QEII is gone the bulk of the public's attention will switch to William, Kate and their children, not to Charles and Camilla. Which is another reason I've been happy to be able to get a sense over the last while about how the Cambridges are going to build their royal profiles.
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  #1131  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Because cheerleaders like Penny Junor write a book on the anniversary year of Diana's death. A book that drags the late princess through the mud to make her rival look sympathetic is why that 3-way marriage will not go away. Diana was wrong, but Junor's book made her look like a psychotic mess. I wouldn't be surprised if Junor's book, or its excerpts, impacted the poll.

Look at the comment section of the Hail Queen Camilla article in the DM. To say many don't agree the writer's opinion on the subject is an understatement.
Penny Junor's book was to celebrate Camilla's 70th birthday - which is tomorrow. This is a normal thing in royal circles for a book, or series of books, to be published in the lead up to a major birthday. Unfortunately for Camilla her 'O' birthdays will always be only a few weeks before 'O' anniversaries of Diana's death. I remember the way Diana overshadowed Camilla's 50th birthday with a deliberate media storm - but that was her way - to be in the limelight all the time.

Have you read the book or only the DM's extracts? Those extracts are almost the entirety of the mentions of Diana while the actual book is much longer and dwells on Camilla's actual life.
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  #1132  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Look, I'm a lifelong monarchist and I know that this is totally the wrong thread to debate this, but I do have a feeling (a dread in a way) that some of the great loyalty that the British people show the monarchy at present is going to drop substantially after the Queen's death. Charles is not very popular and Camilla is even less, and popularity and public opinion does matter a heck of a lot in a modern democracy, especially in tough times.
I'm afraid you are right about that ...support will drop with Charles and if they can hang on long enough it should go back up with William.


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  #1133  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Maybe Queen Camilla continues to be a divisive idea because surveys keep on asking if they prefer her to a woman who's been dead for 20 years...
I agree, that's a pretty ridiculous sort of survey If they're going to ask if you prefer Camilla to someone who has no chance. Its a bit like saying would you rather have Q Victoria back
It sounds like very loaded survey to me and will problaby attract the already convinced...
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  #1134  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Didn't people think the same after Queen Victoria's death, though?

I
And really, once QEII is gone the bulk of the public's attention will switch to William, Kate and their children, not to Charles and Camilla. Which is another reason I've been happy to be able to get a sense over the last while about how the Cambridges are going to build their royal profiles.
I'm not so sure. I don't think that the Cambridges (and Harry) have the sense of commitment that Charles has, and I think thtat when he's king, even if it is for a short while, his work will stand for itself. After all when Victoria died, everyone was like "Oh dear Edward VII s a lightweight playboy and our great queen si dead."
and yet he proved In his 9 years as King, very popular.
I'm not sure that Will and K will be that madly popular myself, I tihnk they lack substance and have never been very active.. Charles has got substance and I think that during the years since their marriage, Camilla has shown that she is committed ot her job and to her marriage and that she's a support to her husband.
I'd certainly like to see Charles and Cam get their turn.. Its a terrible pity that Diana didn't get her chance but it happened.. and now Charles is remarried and to another woman who makes him happier.. and whom he can work with. but really I'm indifferent about Will and Kate. I don't think the monarchy will die with them, but if it does it does. I certainly don't think they have the commitment to it that Charles has, and if a scandal or soemthign came along in their day, they would relinquish their hold
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  #1135  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Clarence House didn't need to make that Princess Consort statement when they got married. They could have just deflected the question.
Perhaps they would have been wiser not to make a statement but at the time while I think the GBP wasn't really that bothered, there were enough ardeint Diana fans still there to make them take their steps carefully. But it might have been enough to just say "In deference to Diana, Camilla will be known as D of Cornwall" and leave it at that, make no announcement about her future status
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  #1136  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:39 AM
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I really don't think it will be an issue at all when the time comes.

These surveys are centred around the "when" not the "here and now"

When Charles does ascend the throne, it is going to be quite an emotional time. A beloved Monarch gone, a new and very well known and loved one taking on his royal duty.

I can't see the pettiness of titles having any place in all of this and Camilla will be Queen to Charles' King.
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  #1137  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:11 AM
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Im not so sure there is all this "love". I like Charles, I like the queen and I admire them both. I will feel sad when the queen goes, but I hope that Charles will have several yaers of active working time when he can show his good points
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  #1138  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:24 AM
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I hope you're right, Dee Anna. Is Charles loved in Britain, though? If he is its not shown itself in any polls.
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  #1139  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:34 AM
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When I think about the general population being asked the questions that were asked, I have to think that the people queried most likely were like most of the general population and don't really follow the royal family as extensively as we do. We read the books, we keep a watchful eye on what these people do and don't do and I would go as far as to say we can offer educated opinions.

The majority of everyday people remember the war played out in the tabloids. The things that made any of these royals "stand out" on the front pages defines their knowledge of them. Its not unusual that someone may have an opinion on Camilla that's still stuck in the 80s and 90s as the "rottweiler". Some, like my husband, only remembers that Charles has "big ears" and wouldn't have a clue of any of the remarkable things Charles has done. Just like some people wouldn't have a clue what Harry is involved in but rather remember the Vegas pictures splashed on the front pages. We, here at TRF, see more, know more and actually follow the royal family day to day. I think the survey would have been a lot different if they had somehow figured out how to question people that know what's going on.

At the time of the marriage, the idea of the Princess Consort came about, I believe, not only because of the shadow of the deceased Diana, Princess of Wales but also because of uncertainty on Camilla's part. She wasn't jumping for joy at the idea of being up front and center as a senior working royal yet knew it came with being married to Charles. She didn't know if she could adapt to it or just how things would go. She's proven to be amazing at what she does though over the years and may now feel comfortable with being side by side with her king as his queen. So, I think the concept of a princess consort was as much as a "bolt hole" for Camilla should she not be able to adapt to the royal role as it was to appease those that staunchly still supported Charies' first wife.

One thing I do agree with is that when Charles does become king, his reign most likely will be seen as a transitional reign between QEII and William V. Charles just won't have the length of time on the throne that his mother had and that's going to be a tough act to follow in many ways.
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  #1140  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:35 AM
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I don't think that he OR the queen are "loved". Liked and admired, but love is rare IMO for public figures unless they are very special or appeal in some emotional way to the individual. Diana had the ability to attract that sort of emotion, I don't think the queen does.. or C
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