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  #901  
Old 09-14-2015, 01:50 PM
Serene Highness
 
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I think most reasonable people can admit Diana was no blameless paragon of virtues and Camilla is no scheming evil stepmother or witch in a fairytale. That kind of black and white thinking is a result of to much Harlequin reading and Disney movie watching IMO..

Camilla will be at his side whether she is called Queen or Princess or jumped up mistress. But calling her something other than queen consort won't bring DIana back or get revenge for the 'wrongs' done her according to some people.
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  #902  
Old 09-14-2015, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Now that totally sums it up nice and proper. The CoE does recognize and blesses the union of Charles and Camilla as husband and wife. What more needs done?

They may have received a blessing, which is what the CoE does in the case of divorced couples, but they were not remarried in the Church. I won't go back to this discussion because what happened in that ceremony is actually pretty straightforward.
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  #903  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaryllus View Post
I think most reasonable people can admit Diana was no blameless paragon of virtues and Camilla is no scheming evil stepmother or witch in a fairytale. That kind of black and white thinking is a result of to much Harlequin reading and Disney movie watching IMO..

Camilla will be at his side whether she is called Queen or Princess or jumped up mistress. But calling her something other than queen consort won't bring DIana back or get revenge for the 'wrongs' done her according to some people.
Thank you for being the voice of reason.
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  #904  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:06 PM
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We are all flawed human beings. No doubt about that Amaryluss.
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  #905  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:19 PM
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Okay but they were blessed in a service celebrated by the highest clergyman ("the Pope") of the Anglican Church, attended by the Queen, the supreme governor of the Church of England and the Defender of the Faith... so we may assume that the couple is properly married indeed.

:)
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  #906  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Okay but they were blessed in a service celebrated by the highest clergyman ("the Pope") of the Anglican Church, attended by the Queen, the supreme governor of the Church of England and the Defender of the Faith... so we may assume that the couple is properly married indeed.

:)
. Did H.M. The Head of The Church of England attend the civil wedding? Was it televised? Does The House of Lords include senior members of The Church of England? I am just asking?
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  #907  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeybees View Post
. Did H.M. The Head of The Church of England attend the civil wedding? Was it televised?

No and no. :)
Her Majesty attended the blessing led by The Archbishop of Canterbury afterwards.
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  #908  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:29 PM
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A church itself is just a building. A licensed clergymen gave the rights of Marriage so they were legally and throughly married under church law . The Anglican Church allowed it to be done. What was the debate again?
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  #909  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:30 PM
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And why was that? There was alot of debate regarding this at the time in England, as I remember.
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  #910  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:31 PM
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No, HMQ did not attend the civil wedding. altho' she did attend the blessing in St George's Chapel. No it wasn't televised. Yes the House of Lords contains both Lords Spiritual and Temporal. [I believe there are about 13 CoE Bishops who regularly sit in the Lords].

Having been legally married the Prince and Princess of Wales, are indeed 'Husband & Wife', and there is no good reason why the wife should not [in due course[ take her legal title as Queen..
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  #911  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:41 PM
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Charles and Camilla's marriage was based on a compromise IMO. They were able to marry but not in the Church of England, and Camilla became a Royal Highness but doesn't use the title Princess of Wales. I think that, if Camilla had used the Princess of Wales title, much more activity would have been required of her right away. She was an older lady being eased into royal engagements; and to me, it made sense for her to take a lesser title at the time. In the eyes of the Church of England, as far as I can see, Camilla has a husband still living by her first marriage. On the other hand, Prince Charles was a widower at the time of their marriage. Had Camilla not been 'outed' as the Prince of Wales' mistress, perhaps she and Andrew Parker-Bowles would still be married. I'm thinking that if Andrew Parker-Bowles passes away before Prince Charles becomes king, then Camilla would face no obstruction in becoming Queen Consort.
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  #912  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:42 PM
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I honestly believe Wyevale, that none of us know what will happen. We can happily speculate but we don't know. Could anyone have foreseen the consequences of the fire in Windsor Castle and the reaction of the public to the Government Minister who as I recall it said that the public would pay for repairs? Could anyone have foreseen Brittiania's fate? Could anyone have foreseen The Daily Mail's attempt to raise funds for a Royal Yacht for H.M's jubilee failing? Why has it taken so long for the repairs in Buckingham Palace to be completed? Is the Royal Train the next thing to go? I don't know. But I am making no.assumptions
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  #913  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeybees View Post
I honestly believe Wyevale, that none of us know what will happen. We can happily speculate but we don't know. Could anyone have foreseen the consequences of the fire in Windsor Castle and the reaction of the public to the Government Minister who as I recall it said that the public would pay for repairs? Could anyone have foreseen Brittiania's fate? Could anyone have foreseen The Daily Mail's attempt to raise funds for a Royal Yacht for H.M's jubilee failing? Why has it taken so long for the repairs in Buckingham Palace to be completed? Is the Royal Train the next thing to go? I don't know. But I am making no.assumptions
And why does the Queen have only one pair of shoes?
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  #914  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:53 PM
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" They were able to marry but not in the Church of England"

Let me get this straight.. They were married under Church of England rites by the leader of the Church of England but yet not married in the Church of England?

Yeah, no. They are legally positively technically throughly undeniably and most of all religiously married :)
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  #915  
Old 09-14-2015, 04:08 PM
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Charles and Camilla were married in a civil ceremony by registrar Clair Williams in the Guildhall, as far as I remember, and then had a religious blessing conducted by senior Church of England clergy afterwards at Windsor.
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  #916  
Old 09-14-2015, 06:43 PM
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I really don't understand the CofE's strong adversity to divorce. After all, it was founded to perpetuate one. I have no pro or con to this issue, but I just don't understand that one. It was only recently that a catholic was no longer person non grata in the RF, and that has been on the books since CofE was founded, but the divorce issue went out the door once H8 got his.
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  #917  
Old 09-14-2015, 07:10 PM
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It's been a lot longer than 'recently' a divorced Catholic person was persona no grata. The issue with divorce and Catholicism is not the divorce per se...it's the attempt are remarrying sans decree of nullity, assuming it's possible.

Divorced and not re-married Catholics have full access to the Sacraments.


LaRae

Henry VIII's marriage to Anne B. was not after a divorce...it was because he made himself head of the Church and had his bishops declare his marriage to Katherine of Aragon null/invalid. So it was not a divorce in the sense we have of today.


LaRae
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  #918  
Old 09-14-2015, 07:23 PM
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Charles and Camilla are legally married under the law of the United Kingdom - that's all that matters. Whether the marriage took place in a church or in a civil ceremony is irrelevant - the marriage is legal and was blessed by the Church of England.

I don't understand why this is an issue for people - the Church clearly doesn't have a problem with it.
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  #919  
Old 09-14-2015, 07:35 PM
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Because it has to do with Camilla and a certain segment of people will grasp at anything no matter how inane or unjustified to make her the basis of controversy and make her look more like some usurper. They can't just let it her be. I don't mean people here but I think you get the picture.
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  #920  
Old 09-14-2015, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoriaB View Post
Charles and Camilla are legally married under the law of the United Kingdom - that's all that matters. Whether the marriage took place in a church or in a civil ceremony is irrelevant - the marriage is legal and was blessed by the Church of England.

I don't understand why this is an issue for people - the Church clearly doesn't have a problem with it.
Oh, I think the Church of England still has a problem with it, especially in the case of the woman who might be crowned Queen consort.

The Coronation ceremony includes a lot of mystical stuff and bits about the monarch having been approved, if not chosen, by God. A king's consort is anointed. That anointment business is heavy stuff to the C of E and I think a few of the bigwigs in that hierarchy would be quite bothered by the prospect of anointing Camilla, since many people seem to believe that Camilla & Charles' relationship was a direct cause of the breakdown of Charles' first marriage rather than merely a consequence.

Which is why I am more and more inclined to the view that some deal was done, or "understanding" reached, with the Church which is at least part of the reason for the statement of intention about Camilla being Princess Consort rather than Queen Consort.
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