Camilla and The Public

[Lumutqueen]

If Camilla is to be styled as Princess Consort, then IMO set the precedent that the spouses of the monarch should be Prince/Princess Consort going forward. I realize that the way a royal family operates is the opposite of egalitarianism, but what's good for the gander should be good for the goose as well.

For Camilla to not be known as Queen Camilla, would require an act of parliament. Which would I imagine only be for her, not future consorts such as Catherine.

 

[Osipi]

There is also the little bug in the rug that says that wives/consorts take the female equivalent of their husband's titles. For Camilla to be a Princess Consort, there is no "prince" title that Charles will hold as king to take it from. It may end up being that Charles, as monarch using his will and his pleasure, will create Camilla a Princess of the UK in her own right similar to how the Queen did with Philip in 1957.

This "princess consort" stuff can turn out to be tricky. ?

 

[Alison H]

Camilla will be Queen come what may, it's just a question of whether she'll be known as the Princess Consort - just as she's now Princess of Wales, but known as the Duchess of Cornwall. I can't see any way that Kate won't be Queen Catherine. Apart from anything else, it'd look like lowering the status of the British monarchy in relation to other monarchies, saying that she had a lower status than Queen Maxima, Queen Letizia and, by then, probably Queen Mette-Marit and Queen Mary.

If they hadn't said anything in 2005 … but, OK, it seemed sensible at the time. But it's not set in legislation anywhere, and people are allowed to change their minds. It's also very difficult to discuss what's going to happen when … , because no-one really wants to talk about death.

 

[MARG]

The notion that Camilla will be "punished" and denied her legal title Queen as a penance is nauseating and will forever be a stain on the BRF.

We are constantly being told that the BRF will not be dictated to or placate the squeaky wheel, but the media has kept this ill-thought out well and truly to the forefront and is it happens I have no doubt the rest of Charles life will be spent reading horrendous headlines about his mother's in Christian spite and his lack of backbone.

And then of course there is the small matter of Camilla (and Sophie, Catherine and Meghan) not being a Princess of the UK. They are either born of the BRF or are so titled by their own Royal House as were Princess Alice and Princess Marina.

 

[pkl]

I hope it will be Queen Camilla. I really like her alot.

 

[Betsypaige]

The notion that Camilla will be "punished" and denied her legal title Queen as a penance is nauseating and will forever be a stain on the BRF.

We are constantly being told that the BRF will not be dictated to or placate the squeaky wheel, but the media has kept this ill-thought out well and truly to the forefront and is it happens I have no doubt the rest of Charles life will be spent reading horrendous headlines about his mother's in Christian spite and his lack of backbone.

And then of course there is the small matter of Camilla (and Sophie, Catherine and Meghan) not being a Princess of the UK. They are either born of the BRF or are so titled by their own Royal House as were Princess Alice and Princess Marina.

Charles won’t let “it” happen - Camilla not being Queen. He didn’t cave to pressure to give her up, he didn’t listen to public opinion, he even essentially defied his parents. All this media blather, as if there’s a debate, as if it’s up for grabs, is moot.

 

[Denville]

Charles won’t let “it” happen - Camilla not being Queen. He didn’t cave to pressure to give her up, he didn’t listen to public opinion, he even essentially defied his parents. All this media blather, as if there’s a debate, as if it’s up for grabs, is moot.

if CHarles "wont let it happen" how come he agreed to a statement on his website that she would be knonwn as Princess Consort?

 

[wyevale]

CHarles "wont let it happen" how come he agreed to a statement on his website that she would be known as Princess Consort?

'Realpolitik'.. because THEN it was the only way to get the marriage 'past the public' - NOW things are different, even 'die hard' Dianaphiles are markedly less rabid toward Camilla, and the majority see clearly she is a 'good Woman', and [especially] good for the Prince of Wales..

 

[W.Y.CII]

If Camilla is to be styled as Princess Consort, then IMO set the precedent that the spouses of the monarch should be Prince/Princess Consort going forward.

Similar thought. Probably not their intention but maybe things end up going into that direction.

IMO Camilla definitely deserves the "Queen" title.

 

[Denville]

'Realpolitik'.. because THEN it was the only way to get the marriage 'past the public' - NOW things are different, even 'die hard' Dianaphiles are markedly less rabid toward Camilla, and the majority see clearly she is a 'good Woman', and [especially' good for the Prince of Wales..

Im not so sure of that. I think that Camilla is accepted but she and Charles overall are not as popular as one might expect. And obviously Charles was willing to consider the possibility that Camilla would not become queen, or he would not have agrred to that statement. so its not a case that "Charles wont let it happen."

 

[wyevale]

or he would not have agreed to that statement. so its not a case that "Charles wont let it happen."

'All's fair, in love and war' - The statement was 'expedient' at the moment it was issued, whether or not it was actually meant, let alone intended to be definitive..

As many have said, its inconceivable [to me, and them] that the PoW will allow his chosen wife, to be singled out [among ALL second wives] and insulted in so base a manner..

 

[ACO]

So with the "Princess Consort" statement we basically we admit the family lied and just pandered to the public to get what they wanted and soften the blow with no intention of following through?

Shocker.

Of course Camilla will be Queen Camilla. I don't really get the debate. The biggest indication (other than the obvious) was how they completely removed that mention from the website. *Poof* It never happened.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

if CHarles "wont let it happen" how come he agreed to a statement on his website that she would be knonwn as Princess Consort?

That was then, this is now.

He and Camilla have been married for almost 15 years. Very soon, their marriage will have lasted longer than Charles & Diana's--without the acrimony that existed over many years of that marriage.

 

[wyevale]

with no intention of following through?

NO-ONE knows what the reality of 'the intention' was..

Dianaphiles were so rampant, and [frankly] so full of bile, at that time, it was impossible to predict if/how/whether they would ever reconcile themselves to reality..
Had HMQ died shortly after the marriage no doubt that 'intention' would have become a reality, but now decades have passed, Camilla is a well established and capable member of 'the firm', and has MORE than 'proved her worth'..

 

[Betsypaige]

Im not so sure of that. I think that Camilla is accepted but she and Charles overall are not as popular as one might expect. And obviously Charles was willing to consider the possibility that Camilla would not become queen, or he would not have agrred to that statement. so its not a case that "Charles wont let it happen."

Again, that was a long time ago and Camilla has proven herself. The people who don’t like it are just going to have to deal with it

 

[ACO]

So you are saying that they were allowed to change their mind due to circumstance...

Huh.

For what it is worth I agree that Camilla should be known as Queen. It will be her proper title when the time comes.

 

[Pranter]

So you are saying that they were allowed to change their mind due to circumstance...

Huh.

For what it is worth I agree that Camilla should be known as Queen. It will be her proper title when the time comes.

All kinds of irony the last several pages.


Yes Camilla should be Queen Consort ...there's no reason for her not to be.


LaRae

 

[Osipi]

Back in 2005, the statement that was put on the official website used the word "intended". At that time, Camilla wasn't too sure about taking on a public role as Charles' consort, the public opinion had to be considered and there were probably just a lot of "ifs". The statement was removed from the website in 2018.

Since 2005, Camilla has more than shown herself to be the asset she is not only in support to her husband but also to the family and the monarchy. She hasn't put a foot wrong and has carried herself with dignity and grace and her warm, down to earth nature has won over the people she's met. The Queen has recognized this and in 2012, awarded Camilla the GCVO. Another sign of acceptance and trust and recognition of duty was the Queen appointing Camilla to her Privy Council in 2016.

If Camilla doesn't fit the job description of Queen Consort, I don't think there's anyone out there that does. I'd be surprised if she was anything less when the time does come.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

So you are saying that they were allowed to change their mind due to circumstance...

Huh.

For what it is worth I agree that Camilla should be known as Queen. It will be her proper title when the time comes.

After a lot longer than 18 months or less.

Camilla worked hard, ignored the mud that was slung at her and has proven herself.

 

[Curryong]

All what you say about Camilla may be very true. However the British public apparently think otherwise.

Latest YouGov Poll.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Camilla_Duchess_of_Cornwall

Note her place against the popularity of the other senior royals, The Queen, Cambridges, Harry, even Charles who limps behind the others, the positive versus negative figures, marking her as still regarded as divisive.

 

[Betsypaige]

The public will survive not liking Camilla as Queen...they don't particularly like Charles, and he's going to be King. I don't even know if these polls mean anything. Perhaps many of these people are Diana fanatics that can't move on; I'm sure that's not the entirety of the UK.

 

[Curryong]

YouGov is an extremely reputable and respected polling company in the UK. Regarded in fact as a leader in the field. Their methods of polling, weighting of the respondents replies etc, are there on their website.

 

[MARG]

That YouGov is 'respected' is an inditement of the people who took the poll rather than the encouragement of their cause. Twenty years after a sad but hardly sinless Diana died, there are those still that wish to punish Camilla for loving Charles.

I know that we may not speak ill of the dead but, to hold a woman up as a Saint when she demonstrably was not, to justify their long-held hatred of Camilla is more than a little disturbing. I would suggest they do not hold to the Christian values of forgiveness and that twenty years of hate is innately unhealthy.

Camilla had a rough start as Charles wife but she has acquitted herself well and her love for Charles and his for her is both sweet and splendid. I cannot imagine a world in which Charles was King and she not his Queen.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In all these years, we have seen the Duchess been greeted, welcomed, received with good nature, well wishes and all égards.

Those polls are about which members of the royal family one does like most. If someone says: The Queen, is that a disqualification of other members of the royal family? So Princess Alexandra, the Duchess of Kent or the Duchess of Cornwall must be unpopular indeed?

I come from a country where Beatrix and Willem-Alexander have never ever topped similar polls. Never. Not as heir and not as sovereign. Not in their younger years and not now. They were always bypassed by other royals. But when the two of these arrive somewhere, it is always with warmth, enthusiasm, rousing cheer and goodwill. In fact the same phenomenon we see with the Duchess of Cornwall.

When King Charles accedes the throne, the nation will assemble around the King, leading the mourning. A new chapter is opened in the long history of the monarchy. It helps that Camilla is a restraint figure, no vedette at all, very much into supporting mode and without any appetite for being a celebrity magazine "star".

 

[Lumutqueen]

There’s a fantastic article in Tatler this month about Camilla, and how one journalist has completely changed their mind about the “marriage wrecker”. She comments on the horrific treatment Camilla got when first married, and how she simply pushed through because she was finally with Charles.

I’ve tried to find it online but it seems to be a paper story only, there’s also a fantastic picture of them at Clarence House.

 

[Alison H]

The polls do show low approval ratings, but I'm not sure how they work. It's very rare to hear anyone say anything bad about her now. She never wanted a public role, and she's had to put up with horrendous abuse, and I don't think Charles can be the easiest of people to live with, but she's put up with all of it. I think she does a brilliant job.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The polls do show low approval ratings, but I'm not sure how they work. It's very rare to hear anyone say anything bad about her now. She never wanted a public role, and she's had to put up with horrendous abuse, and I don't think Charles can be the easiest of people to live with, but she's put up with all of it. I think she does a brilliant job.

They usually ask one to name the most popular royals. For an example:
1. The Queen
2. Meghan
3. Zara

Does this mean the Duke, or Princess Anne, or Prince William must be unpopular indeed?
Not at all. But as clickbaits are the media's business model, the nuance is the first victim.
.

 

[Curryong]

The YouGov polling Company isn't media driven. And there are lots of nuances in their polling. They are regarded as being very reputable.

As can be seen from the link, they measure negative feelings, neutral feelings and the positive towards a particular Royal. They do not ask their respondents to rank the royals either. And for each they show the age group of those respondents (Millenials, Baby boomers etc) and which royals polls best with each group.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

We see the Duchess at the Trooping, at Royal Ascot, on Remembrance Sunday, we see her at the main table at State Banquets, at the State Opening of Parliament, we see her en par with the Queens of the Netherlands and of Spain on Garter Day, we see her at individual engagements, we see her completely functioning as spouse of The Prince of Wales, fitting seamlessly in the harness of the Royal Firm. I have no any doubt she will be her old accessible herself, with her wit and dry humor, with her feeling for decorum, to continue to be a great Consort to Charles indeed.

 

[wyevale]

So you are saying that they were allowed to change their mind due to circumstance...

Perhaps pragmatic change is a 'closed book' to you ? Bit odd given your views of the Couple 'exiting' the Firm at the end of March ?

But [in the real world] 'When Circumstances change l change my mind'..