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  #801  
Old 04-18-2015, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
In no time people will get used to it. And when they are used to Camilla as The Princess of Wales, they will be used to her as The Queen.
I don't see this ever happening. Camilla actually *is* the Princess of Wales but is styled as the Duchess of Cornwall and the Duchess of Rothesay while in Scotland by preference. Changing it up now would just be confusing and really serves no purpose at all.
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  #802  
Old 04-18-2015, 05:59 PM
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The intent might have been because of possible health issues Camilla faced before the marriage that may have since been resolved.

She had a hysterectomy in March of 2007.

There are now drugs that prevent or reduce the symptoms of osteoporosis.
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  #803  
Old 04-18-2015, 06:02 PM
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Well the purpose can be that the Queen shows: "end the silly thing, she is The Princess of Wales". By continuing this useless façade, it will also become harder to avoid the "Princess-Consort thing".

When the Court simply, even without announcement, starts styling Camilla as HRH The Princess of Wales, the change to HM Queen Camilla will not be that big. After all, when the Duchess of Cornwall-scenario is left, also the Princess-Consort scenario can move to the dustbin, where it belongs.

Just do it. It is nothing new, it is just the one and the only proper way to refer to the spouse of The Prince of Wales.
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  #804  
Old 04-18-2015, 06:30 PM
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Just do it. It is nothing new, it is just the one and the only proper way to refer to the spouse of The Prince of Wales.
AMEN to that ! I SOO wish they would just do it !
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  #805  
Old 04-18-2015, 06:52 PM
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Everyone just have to accept the reality that Camilla has chosen her titles with the blessings of her husband and The Queen. Clarence House and Buckingham Palace officials have never acknowledged Camilla as the Princess of Wales, and they most likely will never do so.
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  #806  
Old 04-18-2015, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Everyone just have to accept the reality that Camilla has chosen her titles with the blessings of her husband and The Queen. Clarence House and Buckingham Palace officials have never acknowledged Camilla as the Princess of Wales, and they most likely will never do so.
I think so too. Actually The Duke of Cornwall is the title that Charles has held the longest. The moment his mother became Queen, he became the Duke of Cornwall. The Prince of Wales is a title that is endowed by HM and Charles held that title for several years before being formally invested in Wales.

I think that should the PTB all of a sudden start referring to Camilla as The Princess of Wales, the most popular reaction to it would be that its bad public relations trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. I also would see it as demeaning Camilla's work in establishing herself as The Duchess of Cornwall for the past 10 years.
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  #807  
Old 04-18-2015, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I think so too. Actually The Duke of Cornwall is the title that Charles has held the longest. The moment his mother became Queen, he became the Duke of Cornwall. The Prince of Wales is a title that is endowed by HM and Charles held that title for several years before being formally invested in Wales.

I think that should the PTB all of a sudden start referring to Camilla as The Princess of Wales, the most popular reaction to it would be that its bad public relations trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. I also would see it as demeaning Camilla's work in establishing herself as The Duchess of Cornwall for the past 10 years.
Yeah, Camilla has done a beautiful job in establishing her role as The Duchess of Cornwall. Why mess that up?
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  #808  
Old 04-18-2015, 11:42 PM
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I'm sure the government would have been consulted about the Duchess of Cornwall/Princess Consort titles. If anyone suddenly started calling Camilla "The Princess of Wales", particularly the Queen, it would be going against something to which the government of the day agreed. This would be risky constitutionally as well as breaking an understanding that was made at the time of the Prince of Wales' second marriage.
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  #809  
Old 04-18-2015, 11:53 PM
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The PM said, at the time and in parliament at question time, that she was The Princess of Wales and was just using a different one of Charles' titles as her main title. When they are in Scotland they are Duke and Duchess of Rothesay, in Cornwall they both use Cornwall and in Chester they both use the Chester title (Charles is the Earl of Chester so she is the Countess).
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  #810  
Old 04-19-2015, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I'm sure the government would have been consulted about the Duchess of Cornwall/Princess Consort titles. If anyone suddenly started calling Camilla "The Princess of Wales", particularly the Queen, it would be going against something to which the government of the day agreed. This would be risky constitutionally as well as breaking an understanding that was made at the time of the Prince of Wales' second marriage.
I don't believe that the government really had anything to do with this at all. By law, when Camilla married Charles, she gained the right to use the feminine versions of any of Charles' titles as her style. Legally, she does hold the title Princess of Wales but she prefers to be styled as The Duchess of Cornwall.

Its kind of like the situation with HRH The Duchess of Kent. In her private life she prefers to be known (or rather styled) as Katherine Kent or Katherine, Duchess of Kent but her formal title remains HRH The Duchess of Kent.

The rub with the "intention" that was stated at the time of Charles and Camilla's marriage is that legally, there is no title that Charles would hold as King that would give the feminine version of "Princess" to Camilla.

Now, back to the public opinion in all this. If asked, what option do you think the public would go for more given a choice.

a) Queen Consort
b) Princess Consort by creating Camilla a Princess of the UK in her own right.
(might be constitutionally the only way she could be a Princess)
c) Most of the public wouldn't care. Just get on with things.
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  #811  
Old 04-19-2015, 12:13 AM
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Of course she was called the Duchess of Cornwall because of public opinion at the time.

The British public don't take that much notice of the royal family as a general rule, they are just there in the background of people's lives. It's taken about three years for many people in the tabloid media to stop addressing the Duchess of Cambridge as Kate Middleton, BTW.

If Camilla was suddenly referred to as the Princess of Wales Mr and Mrs Britain would automatically think Diana, and be puzzled IMO. It would take about ten years for every commentator/journalist to comply, and by that time Charles and Camilla may well be King and consort! Maybe they should have begun as they meant to continue?

Alexandra was Princess of Wales for nearly forty years. It must have been strange for the public when George stopped being Duke of York and he and Mary became the Prince and Princess of Wales.
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  #812  
Old 04-19-2015, 01:04 AM
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George and May, of course, had over 10 months as Duke of Cornwall and York before becoming Prince and Princess of Wales and people had no real trouble adjusting - just as they won't have a problem when Charles becomes King and Kate becomes Duchess of Cornwall. She will have Camilla's title before she can have Diana's because Cornwall is automatic while the Wales title has to be created and Charles may take minutes, hours, days, weeks, months or even years, before giving his son that title.
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  #813  
Old 04-19-2015, 01:15 AM
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I'm guessing it won't take very long for Charles to create William as the next Prince of Wales.

I firmly believe Camilla is just fine with her current title and most likely will be very happy with the titles of Queen or Princess Consort. The problem will likely be with public and media opinion. That'll cause a headache for palace officials and royal family.
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  #814  
Old 04-19-2015, 01:45 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if Charles takes a long time to create William Prince of Wales - insisting that Kate uses the same title that Camilla has used for a long time. Charles has been Prince of Wales for well over 50 years now so it is perfectly possible that he will leave that title vacant for two or three years. I do think he will also ask the Welsh Assembly to approve the title and that isn't a given either.
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  #815  
Old 04-19-2015, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if Charles takes a long time to create William Prince of Wales - insisting that Kate uses the same title that Camilla has used for a long time. Charles has been Prince of Wales for well over 50 years now so it is perfectly possible that he will leave that title vacant for two or three years. I do think he will also ask the Welsh Assembly to approve the title and that isn't a given either.
I'm not sure about that. I think he would want his heir to take on the title of Prince of Wales at least within a year after the Coronation. I don't believe the Welsh people will have a problem embracing their new and younger Prince and Princess of Wales just as soon as they can.
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  #816  
Old 04-19-2015, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I do think he will also ask the Welsh Assembly to approve the title and that isn't a given either.
I would be surprised if that happened. It is a royal prerogative, and one that is in the gift of the monarch of the day. Why hand that over to a devolved assembly? If you do that, you may find the next title (say Duke & Duchess of Cambridge) that the monarch hands out has to have the approval of the local council (Cambridgeshire County Council)!
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  #817  
Old 04-19-2015, 04:03 AM
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It is an acknowledgement that the Welsh people should have a say in a title that includes their country - especially when there is a call amongst some Welsh for a greater say in their country and even some advocating Welsh independence.


Cambridge is an English title and so is perfectly within the gift of a King who is still essentially seen as English by many people in Britain and to the Welsh the English are still a conquering power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I'm not sure about that. I think he would want his heir to take on the title of Prince of Wales at least within a year after the Coronation. I don't believe the Welsh people will have a problem embracing their new and younger Prince and Princess of Wales just as soon as they can.
So we agree.


A year after the Coronation would be at least 2 years after Charles becomes King. The tradition for over 200 years now is for the coronation to take place in the summer after the first anniversary of the accession of the new monarch e.g. if The Queen died this week the coronation would be next summer (2016) but if she say died in December then it wouldn't be until the summer of 2017.
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  #818  
Old 04-19-2015, 04:30 AM
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When we assume that the new creation of the Prince of Wales will be done one or two years after the King's coronation, let us assume the following, the Queen ends her Reign this year (read: passes away):

During the Queen's life:
HRH The Duke of Cambridge

Since the Queen's death and his father becoming King:
HRH The Duke of Cornwall (in Scotland: HRH The Duke of Rothesay)

At earliest in 2017, most likely 2018 or later:
HRH The Prince of Wales (in Scotland: HRH The Duke of Rothesay)
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  #819  
Old 04-19-2015, 04:53 AM
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One addition - from the Queen's death until he is created Prince of Wales (IF he is created Prince of Wales) William will be HRH The Duke of Cornwall AND Cambridge officially except when in Scotland where he will be The Duke of Rothesay. That is in line with the precedence of George V who was officially HRH The Duke of Cornwall and York from Queen Victoria's death until his own creation as Prince of Wales in November, 1901.
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  #820  
Old 04-19-2015, 05:07 AM
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Yes, that is true. When the Duke of Edinburgh dies before the Queen, his son Charles will also become the 2nd Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich but he will never be known like that because that title will get "lost" in the enormous amass of titles the Prince holds: HRH The Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Duke of Edinburgh, etc. etc. etc....

Prince William indeed will be known as "Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge", south of the Hadrian Wall, that is.
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