Camilla and The Public

[MARG]

YouGov conducted a poll between 3-4 Sept 2015 on the popularity of the monarchy.

The question of Camilla's future title was asked.

16% believe Camilla should be called ‘Queen’ when Charles becomes King compared to 38% that prefer the title of ‘Princess Consort’. Just less than a third (32%) feel she should be given no title at all. 13% don't know.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/08/monarchy-here-stay/

I wouldn't bet the house on those polls. At the last General Election all polls had the Opposition winning by a landslide and then . . . .

 

[AfricanAUSSIE]

Because a surprisingly large number of people believe that Camilla is a home-wrecking witch who cast a spell on Charles that caused him to fall out of love with the saintly Diana and leave her and run to Camilla's arms and that since she is to blame, that it is all her fault and that therefore she should be punished by not being known as Queen Consort in due course.

Hahahaha! Well put. My mother has those sentiments exactly! And they have not abated over time.

 

[Osipi]

I'm of the opinion that when the time does come, no matter what title is chosen and used for Camilla, it will be what it is and if there is controversy surrounding what she is known as, it won't be Camilla or Charles that instigates it.

Regardless of if she's called HM, Queen Camilla or HRH The Princess Consort or just plain Gladys, her role and support of her husband will be the same as it is now.

 

[Princess Pris]

I think the problem is creating a new title like "The Princess Consort" just specifically for Camilla that seems to be an issue. Right now she's the Princess of Wales but uses her next highest title, Duchess of Cornwall. No one has a problem with it because Cornwall is one of her titles. When Charles is King she will be Queen but couldn't she use her next highest title, Duchess of Lancaster?

HM The King and HRH The Princess Consort just sounds weird. We are used to HM The Queen and HRH The Duke of Edinburgh. HM The King and HRH The Duchess of Lancaster would be closer to what people are used to and would avoid having to even bother making up a title just for Camilla.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[...] She rarely gives interviews [...]

That is a BIG plus actually. Has Queen Elizabeth ever, ever given an interview?

The interview which was given by the previous Princess of Wales almost destroyed the monarchy, so that was not a too big success either...



As no other media, the British love to frame everything. When they decide that a certain lady is too forceful, she becomes "Princess Pushy". The Duchess of Cornwall experiences the same. She is the most natural, most approachable and most easy-going of the lot. She seems to have a good sense of humour and an infectuous laughter. Yes, I think she will come closer and closer. The Princess Lilian of 1978 was no comparison to the Princess Lilian of 2008. Times change. People too.

 

[Rudolph]

I wouldn't bet the house on those polls. At the last General Election all polls had the Opposition winning by a landslide and then . . . .

Clearly Clarence House pays attention to polls regarding Camilla otherwise we would all be calling her the Princess of Wales right now.

 

[Osipi]

Clearly Clarence House pays attention to polls regarding Camilla otherwise we would all be calling her the Princess of Wales right now.

I could be totally wrong but if I remember right, it was Camilla's choice to use the Duchess of Cornwall title and in no way a reaction to public opinion. In 2005, it had only been 7 years since Diana's death and being known by a different title no only respected the memory of Diana but also put to rest any kind of indication that Camilla was trying to step into Diana's shoes.

JMO of course.

 

[AfricanAUSSIE]

Clearly Clarence House pays attention to polls regarding Camilla otherwise we would all be calling her the Princess of Wales right now.

I agree.

Camilla may have chosen her current title hoping to placate the public. The Palace concurs because of the polls.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Clearly Clarence House pays attention to polls regarding Camilla otherwise we would all be calling her the Princess of Wales right now.

Nonsense, already before her marriage it was informed that the new Princess of Wales is known as Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cornwall (Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Rothesay in Scotland) and they have simply maintained it, with or without any poll. It was also communicated that it was Camilla's wish - apparently out of respect for the mother of her stepsons.

 

[Mbruno]

I'm of the opinion that when the time does come, no matter what title is chosen and used for Camilla, it will be what it is and if there is controversy surrounding what she is known as, it won't be Camilla or Charles that instigates it.

Regardless of if she's called HM, Queen Camilla or HRH The Princess Consort or just plain Gladys, her role and support of her husband will be the same as it is now.

I wonder though if other continental European royal princes will curtsy to Camilla if the British court chooses to refer to her as Princess Consort regardless of whether she is legally Queen or not. I remind you that James and Louise for example are styled as children of an earl even though they should be legally HRHs.

 

[Osipi]

I wonder though if other continental European royal princes will curtsy to Camilla if the British court chooses to refer to her as Princess Consort regardless of whether she is legally Queen or not. I remind you that James and Louise for example are styled as children of an earl even though they should be legally HRHs.

I would think the best example of protocol would be to look at how Prince Philip is regarded in the pecking order. His role and title now are the closest to what Camilla's would be as a Princess Consort I bet.

James, if all goes according to plan, will eventually inherit the title of Duke of Edinburgh and once Edward is created DoE, Louise will be Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor.

 

[Mbruno]

As for Camilla, I suppose her low profile is striking to us outside Europe maybe because we got used to high profile royal ladies in the continent like Maxima, Mathilde, Mary, or, to stay in Camilla's generation, Sylvia of Sweden. Camilla , who is not very qualified academically either, pales in comparison.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I wonder though if other continental European royal princes will curtsy to Camilla if the British court chooses to refer to her as Princess Consort regardless of whether she is legally Queen or not. I remind you that James and Louise for example are styled as children of an earl even though they should be legally HRHs.

At most European Courts the révérence or the bow has disappeared but okay: when it is done, it is done to the Consort too. People curtsied to Prince Philip, Prince Henrik, the late Prince Claus, the late Prince Bernhard, etc. It is not the title, it is the precedence. I can imagine King Charles III issue the following:

"WHEREAS in testimony of the great love which We bear towards Our most dearly beloved spouse Camilla Rosemary Mountbatten-Windsor, being sensible of the high regard and affection in which she is held by Our loving subjects, We are desirous of conferring upon her a style and dignity appropriate to her rank and station.

NOW KNOW YE that We, of Our especial grace certain, do by these presents give and grant unto Camilla Rosemary Mountbatten-Windsor the title and dignity of Princess Consort to be held and enjoyed by her during Our joint lives in all places and on all occasions as her proper title and dignity.

AND We do further of Our royal favor and affection grant unto her, Our said most dearly beloved spouse, that by the said title of Princess Consort she shall have and enjoy the rank, place, pre-eminence and precedence of a royal consort."

 

[AdmirerUS]

I wonder though if other continental European royal princes will curtsy to Camilla if the British court chooses to refer to her as Princess Consort regardless of whether she is legally Queen or not. I remind you that James and Louise for example are styled as children of an earl even though they should be legally HRHs.

Whereas I just wonder how frequently Charles and Camilla will be face to face with the Continentals to even share a curtsy...

 

[Rudolph]

Here is the issue some experts have with 'Princess Consort'. The title does not exist in common law.

The constitution already provides a title and precedence for Camilla.

The wife of a King has the highest rank and dignity in the realm after her husband assigned to her by law.

The highest rank and dignity after a king is a queen not 'princess consort'

The reason 'Prince Consort' exits is because the constitution completely ignores the husband of a Queen.

(The Duke of Edinburgh was never created Prince Consort btw but a Prince of the United Kingdom)

Will the government allow Charles to just invent the title out of thin air?

 

[Ish]

Here is the issue some experts have with 'Princess Consort'. The title does not exist in common law.

The constitution already provides a title and precedence for Camilla.

The wife of a King has the highest rank and dignity in the realm after her husband assigned to her by law.

The highest rank and dignity after a king is a queen not 'princess consort'

The reason 'Prince Consort' exits is because the constitution completely ignores the husband of a Queen.

(The Duke of Edinburgh was never created Prince Consort btw but a Prince of the United Kingdom)

Will the government allow Charles to just invent the title out of thin air?

The other issue is that in creating the title and denying her the use of the title of Queen, Charles is creating morganatic law in Britain.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In 1857 Queen Victoria created her spouse Albert Prince-Consort. I fail to see why King Charles can not create his spouse Camilla Princess-Consort. He can litterally use the Letters-Patent of 1857 and just adapt it to the current situation...

The monarchy is much more flexible than often is thought on these boards. The Prince of Wales marrying for a second time with a divorced lady? No problem. The children of the heir to the Heir also become a Prince of the UK? No problem. Making the succession gender neutral? No problem. Allowing successors to marry Catholics? No problem. Making Camilla a Princess-Consort? That will be no any problem at all, otherwise the Court would not have hinted this intention.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The other issue is that in creating the title and denying her the use of the title of Queen, Charles is creating morganatic law in Britain.

No he is not because morganatic law does not exist. Almost all approved marriages in the British royal family are with "commoners" and have been for several generations. Note that Camilla fully shares in all the Prince of Wales' titles but "is known as" the Duchess of Cornwall or the Duchess of Rothesay, this dismisses any "morganatic" claim. Note that Peter Phillips and Zara Phillips have no any title at all but are nevertheless very much in the line of succession.

 

[cepe]

Holding a poll at the beginning of September, when the papers are reporting the anniversary of the death of Diana is poor practice.

As with all polls, the wording of the questions and the timing will influence results.

 

[irish_royalist]

I consider the Duchess as one of the assets of the royal family whom will become one of the most beloved royals. Wait and see. In 10 years time Camilla has become such a natural part of the royal family and she is able to become a sort of Princess Lilian type. She is a wonderful lady. The total opposite of flat, boring and predictable Catherine.

I totally agree with your assertions regarding Camilla - she is valued very much by Prince Charles who seems to be happier than he has ever been in his life - she is valued by Prince Philip, who is often seen having a joke or a quiet moment of fun with her - she is valued by Her Majesty The Queen who gave her the highest personal honour a Monarch can bestow, the Dame Grand Cross of the RVO in 2012 - and she appears to be valued dearly by her step-sons the Duke of Cambridge and Prince Harry. And the general public seem to be warming to her too.

 

[Mbruno]

I totally agree with your assertions regarding Camilla - she is valued very much by Prince Charles who seems to be happier than he has ever been in his life - she is valued by Prince Philip, who is often seen having a joke or a quiet moment of fun with her - she is valued by Her Majesty The Queen who gave her the highest personal honour a Monarch can bestow, the Dame Grand Cross of the RVO in 2012 - and she appears to be valued dearly by her step-sons the Duke of Cambridge and Prince Harry. And the general public seem to be warming to her too.

I don't know if she is valued by her stepsons and in-laws as, quite frankly, I don't live or interact with them on a daily basis. On your last assertion though, whatever boost in popularity that Camilla may have got after marrying Charles seems to have stabilized now and may well be receding. As I said in another reply, I don't see any statistical evidence or objective reason to conclude that Camilla will be a particularly popular member of the Royal Family in any near or distant future.

 

[Nico]

I don't know if she is valued by her stepsons and in-laws as, quite frankly, I don't live or interact with them on a daily basis. On your last assertion though, whatever boost in popularity that Camilla may have got after marrying Charles seems to have stabilized now and may well be receding. As I said in another reply, I don't see any statistical evidence or objective reason to conclude that Camilla will be a particularly popular member of the Royal Family in any near or distant future.

You seems to deliberately forget that 15 years ago or so Camilla was, literally, one of the most hated figure in the UK. This perception has come a long way and if Camilla is not, indeed, the most popular member of the BRF (but what for ?), at least she's accepted at the wife of the heir to the throne and as a key and active member of the BRF : it was the intended goal. When Charles will become king, Camilla will be at his side, whatever her title ; again another intended goal.
When i see the current situation, and relative popularity, of the Duchess of Cornwall all i can say is "mission accomplished" and, for the record, i don't see any objective evidence to see any decreasing in her popularity in the near future either. For now i'm more worried about the Cambridges ...

 

[Skippyboo]

If it announced when Charles becomes King that Camilla will use her legally entitled title as Queen, is there going to be national outrage? I don't think so. People will be morning Elizabeth and intrigued by the accession process which most people haven't seen before.

Most people who are twenty something don't have rememberance of Diana and Charles together. Divorce is a common thing now a days. The UK isn't a highly religious country where the majority of the people would be morally offended by divorced.




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[Winnie]

If it announced when Charles becomes King that Camilla will use her legally entitled title as Queen, is there going to be national outrage? I don't think so. People will be morning Elizabeth and intrigued by the accession process which most people haven't seen before.

Most people who are twenty something don't have rememberance of Diana and Charles together. Divorce is a common thing now a days. The UK isn't a highly religious country where the majority of the people would be morally offended by divorced.

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I certainly agree with the twenty something part. In History books many years from now on the Royal Family, Diana will be a short paragraph as first wife of King Charles and mother of King William {?} but Camilla will be the Queen sitting beside Charles making history. We, on this forum, adore reading and talking about "Royals". But, believe me, we are an extremely small percentage of the world. Most could care less and only read about them on a special occasion. Most people in America, and friends in South America, could care less about Queen Elizabeth II becoming longest reigning monarch in UK. We enjoyed reading and talked about this milestone.

 

[Honeybees]

I certainly agree with the twenty something part. In History books many years from now on the Royal Family, Diana will be a short paragraph as first wife of King Charles and mother of King William {?} but Camilla will be the Queen sitting beside Charles making history. We, on this forum, adore reading and talking about "Royals". But, believe me, we are an extremely small percentage of the world. Most could care less and only read about them on a special occasion. Most people in America, and friends in South America, could care less about Queen Elizabeth II becoming longest reigning monarch in UK. We enjoyed reading and talked about this milestone.

. In my humble opinion, Diana, Princess of Wales will not be a paragraph in any history book.

 

[Roslyn]

. In my humble opinion, Diana, Princess of Wales will not be a paragraph in any history book.

As mother of a future king, she'll have to score at least a sentence.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

. In my humble opinion, Diana, Princess of Wales will not be a paragraph in any history book.

Completely agree. Her tumultuous tenure as Princess of Wales, the controversy of the divorce...not to mention the chaos of her premature tragic death and how it impacted the BRF, will all but guarantee more than a footnote in the history books for Diana Spencer.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, Diana will certainly feature in future biographies of the Queen, Charles and William, both authorised editions and non-authorised. She won't go quietly, or be wiped out of history that easily.

 

[MARG]

Holding a poll at the beginning of September, when the papers are reporting the anniversary of the death of Diana is poor practice.

As with all polls, the wording of the questions and the timing will influence results.

As you have noted, the poll was timed to perfection and I should imagine the way the questions were similarly couched to reflect that timing.

 

[Dman]

I think it's unfair to Camilla to compare her popularity to her predecessor. That's not something Camilla is aiming for. She's simply there to be Charles's consort and friend.

When I see Camilla on official royal duty, I think of the late Duchess of Windsor, and how she was robbed of the opportunity that Camilla now have.