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  #501  
Old 06-05-2006, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northernchoir
I'm making my first post and how nice to be able to say "Best wishes for Camilla!."
Welcome to the forum and a wonderful first post (with which I couldn't agree more). :) :) :)
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  #502  
Old 06-05-2006, 07:38 AM
Gentry
 
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Hi Northernchoir :)

You've made just the correct comments, - people are going to love having you aboard, for sure.:)

My opinion has not changed about the Duchess! Some people believe that the "past is the past"...so therefore we should all forget, the character that Camilla showed in the 80's.
I don't believe the "past is the past". In my eyes the past intertwines with the present and future - the "past" is always there..

Your opinion of Diana, is yours ( although shared by several on this forum - BUT not all), and thankfully this forum allows us all to express our views and opinions without bias.

Regards, Kate:)
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  #503  
Old 06-05-2006, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katemac63
"...so therefore we should all forget, the character that Camilla showed in the 80's.
Camilla didn't show any character to the public in the 80s because she was out of the public eye.

If you personally met her during that time, you can speak with some authority on her character at the time but I don't think you have met her. Anything the rest of us know about her character in the 80s was given to us by others.

This is the first time many have seen her in public and we can finally form opinions about her ourselves. After having seen her, some people are starting to doubt the truthfulness of many of the negative things reported about her in the 80s.

That's not burying the past but its re-evaluating the past based on what we know now and finally being able to see her for ourselves.
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  #504  
Old 06-05-2006, 08:57 AM
Gentry
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Camilla didn't show any character to the public in the 80s because she was out of the public eye.

If you personally met her during that time, you can speak with some authority on her character at the time but I don't think you have met her. Anything the rest of us know about her character in the 80s was given to us by others.

This is the first time many have seen her in public and we can finally form opinions about her ourselves. After having seen her, some people are starting to doubt the truthfulness of many of the negative things reported about her in the 80s.

That's not burying the past but its re-evaluating the past based on what we know now and finally being able to see her for ourselves.
We will just agree to disagree on our view. Except , there are two photos of camilla befriending the future bride of charles and those coupled with what did emerge as truth , tells me and others not to doubt the truthfulness of the negative things reported about her, including her giving weekly reports to the newspaper editor about the marriage of DIana and charles.The editor told us that fact himself. Of course , one may call him a liar if they wish..even if the statement did come out of his mouth...Is re-evaluating the past, changing the course to make more acceptable for present?
  #505  
Old 06-05-2006, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katemac63
.. including her [Camilla] giving daily reports to the newspaper editor about the marriage of DIana and charles.The editor told us that fact himself. Of course , one may call him a liar if they wish..even if the statement did come out of his mouth...
Haven't come across this one before: Camilla "gave daily reports to a newspaper editor about the marriage of Diana and Charles." How, when, who, source?
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  #506  
Old 06-05-2006, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katemac63
Except , there are two photos of camilla befriending the future bride of charles
Gosh, what a terrible woman she must be, trying to befriend and welcome another woman into the 'circle' of her future husbands friends! My friends and I must be terrible as well, as we have always done that and considered it to be the right thing to do! :)
  #507  
Old 06-05-2006, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Gosh, what a terrible woman she must be, trying to befriend and welcome another woman into the 'circle' of her future husbands friends! My friends and I must be terrible as well, as we have always done that and considered it to be the right thing to do! :)
:) :) :) I think we've had this dance, have we not?? - I've also welcomed people into my circle, but I don't have one eye on their husband....or to be more correct for the timeframe, husband to be..:)(IMO of course)
  #508  
Old 06-05-2006, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katemac63
:) :) :) I think we've had this dance, have we not?? - I've also welcomed people into my circle, but I don't have one eye on their husband....or to be more correct for the timeframe, husband to be..:)(IMO of course)
Yes we have and you gave no evidence then regarding who told you Camilla's intentions.

You are forgetting Camilla and Charles were friends and it is natural to want to make every effort to make his wife feel welcome. Do we hear the same thing about the welcome any of his other friends gave her, male or female, did they also have their eye on the husband to be?

I suppose there is no accounting for the way some people would rather see a bad side to IMO a genuine attempt at friendship.

Perhaps I should start to suggest all my husbands friends only befriended me to get closer to him (he should be so lucky).
  #509  
Old 06-05-2006, 11:43 AM
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People's opinions are generally more reliable when they stick to what was actually was observed rather than making assumptions about what other people think or feel.

Yes Camilla was friends with Charles at the time of his marriage as were Lady Tryon, Lady Jane Wellesley, etc. That's all we know because no one from that circle has said anything publicly. Camilla's friendship with Charles at the start of his marriage is not firm evidence that she had designs on Charles from the beginning because if that's all the evidence we need, its also a fair assumption that the Charles' other girlfriends must have had designs on him too. I can't believe that Charles was such a popular ladykiller.

Charles was well known for keeping friendships with former girlfriends before Diana came into the picture.

This is what I meant by interpretating the same facts differently. The only two observable actions of Camilla during the 80s are her friendship with Charles at the start of the marriage and evidence of the affair that came long after the marriage started. The interpretation that Camilla were planning the affair from the start is only one of many possible interpretations. Its equally plausible that they were both having trouble in their marriages and turned to each other for support as friends which later became something more serious. I'm sure there are many other interpretations of what happened but they all fall short in having reliable information to support them.

This is why many people are basing their opinions of Camilla on what they see now because she's at least giving us something to go on.
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  #510  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Haven't come across this one before: Camilla "gave daily reports to a newspaper editor about the marriage of Diana and Charles." How, when, who, source?
Look up "John-Paul Flintoff: On the trail of Kelvin Mackenzie - Pharagraph #25.

www.etoile.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24453&sid=24202caba7711341855bda00420B5238-81k

I am still looking for the link that say, "camilla was on the phone once a week to Stuart Higgins from the early 80's to the seperation and divorce of charles and DIana..
WHen I find that one I'll give you the link as well

Regards
Kate
  #511  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Yes we have and you gave no evidence then regarding who told you Camilla's intentions.

You are forgetting Camilla and Charles were friends and it is natural to want to make every effort to make his wife feel welcome. Do we hear the same thing about the welcome any of his other friends gave her, male or female, did they also have their eye on the husband to be?

I suppose there is no accounting for the way some people would rather see a bad side to IMO a genuine attempt at friendship.

Perhaps I should start to suggest all my husbands friends only befriended me to get closer to him (he should be so lucky).
With all due respect Skydragon, but your statement,charles and camilla were friends is a little understated! They had been lovers for YEARS! "it was natural to want to make every effort to make his wife feel welcome"..You see, after being lovers for years and the current history involved that he is now married to her, it was NOT natural - one can only surmise that camilla had her own agenda and reasons for wanting to be cosy with the wife of her "ex" lover? who obviously had passionate feeling for each other still ( at that time) as they are married today.:)
  #512  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
I am still looking for the link that say, "camilla was on the phone once a week to Stuart Higgins from the early 80's to the seperation and divorce of charles and DIana..
WHen I find that one I'll give you the link as well
You do realise you said "daily," not "weekly," right?
  #513  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
You do realise you said "daily," not "weekly," right?
No - for sure I meant weekly. That is what Stuart Higgins said.

"daily " was incorrect.

Sorry
  #514  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katemac63
Look up "John-Paul Flintoff: On the trail of Kelvin Mackenzie - Pharagraph #25.

www.etoile.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24453&sid=24202caba7711341855bda00420B5238-81k

I am still looking for the link that say, "camilla was on the phone once a week to Stuart Higgins from the early 80's to the seperation and divorce of charles and DIana..
WHen I find that one I'll give you the link as well

Regards
Kate
Hi Kate

Tell me please where is the proof of Camilla calling any editor (let alone Sun's) ?
  #515  
Old 06-05-2006, 01:18 PM
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I think Stuart Higgins has confirmed that he talked to Camilla in the early 1980s when there were stories of problems in the Wales marriage, but I don't know about weekly or about how much she actually told him. It was mentioned briefly in the Frontline programme about Diana and the press.


NARRATOR: Prince Charles's friends mounted a general counteroffensive. They were all members of the British aristocracy, not usually in touch with the tabloid press.

STUART HIGGINS, Editor, "The Sun": That was the kind of circle of people that were involved- not directly. They weren't ringing up The Sun and saying, "That's complete nonsense. You've got it wrong," but those were the people that were working behind the scenes to protect, quite rightly, the Prince of Wales's position and also for him to maintain some dignity and integrity in the face of what was regarded as a terrible, terrible betrayal by the Princess.

NARRATOR: In Andrew Morton's book, the Princess had blamed her husband's relationship with Mrs. Camilla Parker Bowles for the breakdown of the royal marriage. Attention now turned towards this shadowy figure, who had met the deputy editor of The Sun in the early 1980s, when he worked as a royal reporter.
STUART HIGGINS: There were lots of occasions when I would ring her up and say, "Is this true? I don't want you to say anything. I won't quote you." And she would say, "No, it's complete cobblers." Now, I never thought of ringing her and saying, "Are you having a passionate, raging, torrid affair with the next King?" because I knew what the answer would be. I think she used me and, for all I know, other journalists and other people who spoke to her to know what was going on.


About three quarters of the way down this page:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...tc/script.html
  #516  
Old 06-05-2006, 01:23 PM
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What we know is that the three of them did things they shouldnt have done. We dont even know if Diana knew from the beggining that she was getting into a marriage without love. There are many question marks on this story and probably we will never know the truth.
  #517  
Old 06-05-2006, 02:04 PM
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Katemac, you're making assumptions and presenting them as fact where others are saying we just don't know. A few of your assumptions below (bolding and color are mine)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katemac63
They had been lovers for YEARS!
No we don't know that. See my post above.

Quote:
one can only surmise that camilla had her own agenda
That is not the only thing that one can surmise; its only one interpretation of what may transpired because again we just don't know.

Quote:
and reasons for wanting to be cosy with the wife of her "ex" lover? who obviously had passionate feeling for each other still ( at that time) as they are married today.:)
There's nothing obvious about it unless you were privy to Charles' and Camilla's relationship through the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Charles was passionate about quite a few ladies in the 70s and one Lady Jane Wellesley, he dated very seriously for two years. She was widely considered to be the next Queen.

Anyone who claims they know what was in someone's head on lack of evidence is going to get their version criticized on a public discussion board.
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  #518  
Old 06-05-2006, 02:51 PM
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Talking

Actually what i see and read about is what diana's side of the marriage breakdown painting charles and camilla as horrible and unfaithful people etc - diana used andrew morton's book to present her side of the story and that was just it - just one side making diana out to be the victim at the hands of these 2 people - i still remember the panorama interview even all these years later and i thought my god it was all so fake - the dark suit the nomakeup look everything it made me wonder.I think lots of things that diana did were her way of getting back at charles and the RF even perhaps her relationship with dodi ( i am guessing ) but somehow i think that years after diana people may be starting to realise that perhaps diana was wrong about camilla all along.Diana had an agenda and perhaps this was the best way of going about it to tarnish charles' name etc that is what she wanted but maybe if she had lived people would have realized that she was not perfect and could actually be wrong which she often was in regard to all the people she trusted! I think camilla should be given a fair shake and maybe people may even end up liking her!
  #519  
Old 06-05-2006, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katemac63
With all due respect Skydragon, but your statement,charles and camilla were friends is a little understated! They had been lovers for YEARS!
Well, as has been pointed out time after time, unless you were with them 24/7, you can't state that because you don't know.

One of the great sayings in the forces is 'assumption is the mother of all muck up's'.
  #520  
Old 06-05-2006, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Haven't come across this one before: Camilla "gave daily reports to a newspaper editor about the marriage of Diana and Charles." How, when, who, source?
Sorry Warren... I corrected my original post to show "weekly" and NOT daily...

Kate
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