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  #481  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi P.
I believe since the BRF, Harry and William, and other members of both sides appear to be falling in behind Charles and Camilla it is only a matter of time before people will accept them as they wish to be accpeted, as any other married royal couple.
You are correct of course. It will be the 40 and under crowd that really get behind them, also , I am sure of a few old faithfuls, IMO of course.:)
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  #482  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julial
Sure past is past and we all move on
If that were true, we are not machines but human being with compassion and heart.
Are you suggesting that after the loss of a husband/wife/partner/ex partner, we should all go into some sort of depression for the rest of our lives and never deserve to be happy again

From what some on here write and appear to think about Charles and Camilla, compassion and heart is in very short supply.
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  #483  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by love_cc
Even ordinary people deserve their own happiness, how about Prince Charles? We should be not so cruel to Prince Charles and Camilla. After all they are no longer young people. I am sure, Diana would have found her own happiness if she were still alive. She would offer her best wishes to Charles and Camilla, why can't others follow suit? Love is the most hardest thing to understand in the world. At least finally Charles found a woman who is able to share his burden of his duty and his life. I really cannot stand his sadness and his solitude on his face and in his soul. I want a happy Prince Charles and I want a happy king .
You are quite right. Diana would have wished them well and moved on with her own life, except for the boys of course.. I think too , had Diana lived, and we saw her move on and into a more suitable life and happy, we , the Diana supporters, would have moved on as well. Diana's sudden end, has kept the charles and camilla issue very much alive, especially combined with the conspiracy theory.Had Diana had more years between the divorce and her death - more time - etc..
One thing I do agree with in the documentary, I watched, was the royals had learned something from Diana...They were much more warm and did more walkabouts then the norm..They opted for photo shoots from the media ( charles with Harry downunder on a trip after DIana).At least this is what the commentator suggested.:)
  #484  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate Julie
I DO want to see the monarchy survive - of course charles has to be happy, to enable him to do his job correctly and properly. If it is camilla that helps him to be happy , sobeit...Doesn't mean one has to approve of the person.I am not talking about the position.
Merely of the person.:)
That makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
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  #485  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
That makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
IF William had been a bit older and had more years of freedom under his belt, I would certainly have wished and wanted that he be made King. He would have less baggage IMO, - but I do understand and want him to have a life prior to taking on the huge responsibility of Kingship! I dare say, when charles comes to the throne, his will possibly not be a long reign.. IMO of course:)
  #486  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate Julie
You are correct of course. It will be the 40 and under crowd that really get behind them, also , I am sure of a few old faithfuls, IMO of course.:)
Actually I think its their own age group that is really getting behind Charles and Camilla. This is the generation that lived through the turbulence of the 60s, the breakdown of marriages across the economic classes that started in the 70s, economic and political uncertainty in the 70s and 80s. They have a lot of shared experiences that bind them together.

Some have made mistakes and paid for it and others have pulled themselves up. Those that have survived despite the turmoils see each other as confirmation and affirmation of their own survival.

The under 40 crowd is more likely to identify with William and Harry. If they think positively of Charles and Camilla, its probably with exaperated recognition of traits of their own parents who are hopelessly old-fashioned but maybe OK for old folks.
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  #487  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi P.
I believe since the BRF, Harry and William, and other members of both sides appear to be falling in behind Charles and Camilla it is only a matter of time before people will accept them as they wish to be accepted, as any other married royal couple.
Which of course is exactly what they are. A happily married couple who happen to be the future King and Queen Consort of the UK and Commonwealth Countries. :)
  #488  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Actually I think its their own age group that is really getting behind Charles and Camilla. This is the generation that lived through the turbulence of the 60s, the breakdown of marriages across the economic classes that started in the 70s, economic and political uncertainty in the 70s and 80s. They have a lot of shared experiences that bind them together.

The under 40 crowd is more likely to identify with William and Harry. If they think positively of Charles and Camilla, its probably with exaperated recognition of traits of their own parents who are hopelessly old-fashioned but maybe OK for old folks.
Are you saying, err, some of us are classed as old folk! From the crowds we see at their events, it is people of all ages.
  #489  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Actually I think its their own age group that is really getting behind Charles and Camilla. This is the generation that lived through the turbulence of the 60s, the breakdown of marriages across the economic classes that started in the 70s, economic and political uncertainty in the 70s and 80s. They have a lot of shared experiences that bind them together.

Some have made mistakes and paid for it and others have pulled themselves up. Those that have survived despite the turmoils see each other as confirmation and affirmation of their own survival.

The under 40 crowd is more likely to identify with William and Harry. If they think positively of Charles and Camilla, its probably with exaperated recognition of traits of their own parents who are hopelessly old-fashioned but maybe OK for old folks.
Iwas just comparing my own age and interest, to that of the Queen and Phillip... and Princess Margaret...
  #490  
Old 05-23-2006, 12:24 PM
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well said, ysbel. The more difficulties people experience, the more they see Prince Charles and Camilla, they are probably willing to accept them as a couple and future king and queen consort at least princess consort.I don't want to see a grumpy old prince anyway. I want to see a happy Charles and Camilla. It was a miracle for them to have got married for so many obstales. They are lucky enough to get things back on the right track after so many years.

I thought about "whatever in love means". Then I thought Diana seemed to have a girlish crush on Prince Charles rather than being in love with a true Charles himself. It is painful to say, but Charles and Diana had made a horribly wrong mistake and I wished they had realised that earlier. Charles and Camilla are just soulmates whom should have not been separated. Soulmate is someone you cannot deny in your destiny.
  #491  
Old 05-23-2006, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Are you saying, err, some of us are classed as old folk! From the crowds we see at their events, it is people of all ages.
Well you're right since I'm close to that age group myself and I refuse to consider myself old.

I do meet ex-pat Brits here all the time and what has struck me is the empathy that these Brits of their generation have for Charles and Camilla. Some of them have suffered losses, some by their own mistakes and there is an amazing sense of how blessed they feel to have survived and triumphed. They don't necessarily venerate C&C as Royals but see them as fellow humans who've made mistakes and have survived like themselves.

I admit I was quite surprised to see how strong that empathy ran in people.
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  #492  
Old 05-25-2006, 05:47 AM
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1
"lest we forget" is a beautiful phrase which is used to remember soldiers who were killed in wars. It's to honour the men and women who gave their lives to defend their countries. In Australia at least, this phrase is used during the ANZAC day services which honour service personel and also on Remembrance Day which honours those military personel who lost their lives in various wars.

I'm horrified to even think that it could be used in a vindictive and hold a grudge forever way. I'm just shocked that this phrase is used to justify holding a grudge and not being able to move on.

Please don't desecrate the phrase "lest we forget" in such a way.
I've just discovered Member's Corner and the Swedish Monarchy threads so I haven't been on much but I just wanted to say:

First, I apologize for offending any fellow members in this thread, but the term "lest we forget" does not and is not just for New Zealand and Australia. African-Americans have used this terms as well as a reminder of their past and not to forget it so the that history never repeats itself and that they remember to rise above the hurt, degredation, etc.

When I said lest we forget, I did not intend to use it in a degrading way. And I should have clearified in using it that I only meant sometimes forgetting leads us to repeat the same mistakes or keeps us from remembering the hurt we've felt or caused others. To me and how I was raised "lest we forget" is not about trying to hold on to the past, but it's about holding on the lessons that you learn from whatever trial and tribulation that you've been through.

I will never forget the story of Camilla, Charles, and Diana simply because those lessons taught me how to act and not to act in my own relationships. I believe everyone deserves happiness (even if I may question how they obtain it) but I do not believe that Charles or Camilla have gotten away scott free. They've all suffered pain for their actions. In my mind, I can easily separate past deeds or a bit of their character from the fact that they are going, together, do great things for Britian, but in my heart I feel opposite. I think I've stated that enough so I won't be repeating myself again so that this thread can get back to what it's all about.

I stand by my statements but apologize, again, for offending people. However those words and phrase do no belong to just one group of people and it means something different to everyone. I am sorry if this is counted as off topic. If you must delete it, then feel free by all means. I just wanted to make a formal apology and statement.

Thank you,
Vita
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  #493  
Old 05-25-2006, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgnesK
The thing is that all that stuff was given from Diana and she was the last person who you can call reliable source of Camilla's motives.
If you think that Diana was not a reliable source, what about the housekeeper, the butler and Diana's security person? Were they all a bad source and non reliable when they said about camilla coming in and running the household once Diana was safely back in London? In several books including their>\!:)
  #494  
Old 05-25-2006, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katemac63
If you think that Diana was not a reliable source, what about the housekeeper, the butler and Diana's security person? Were they all a bad source and non reliable when they said about camilla coming in and running the household once Diana was safely back in London? In several books including their>\!:)
These sources are still regarded as the evidence from Diana's side. I am not saying all inforamtion is false but you cannot believe every allegation from those sources though. The housekeeper, the bulter ,bodyguard and Diana's clerks all had the intentions to make money first rather than revealing the truth. Charels's sources are likely to be former and current courtiers, relatives, family friends, etc. There are just Charles's side, Diana's side and the truth. Just let youself to make judgment.
  #495  
Old 05-26-2006, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katemac63
If you think that Diana was not a reliable source, what about the housekeeper, the butler and Diana's security person? Were they all a bad source and non reliable
Basically, yes. How anyone can still believe anything Burrel says is beyond me. Having watched him being 'set up' by Ant and Dec and how he behaved towards a pretend sheik, (he was almost prostrating himself) I realised all the stuff he came out with regarding what he said to any of the royals, couldn't possibly be true.

Lets be halfway honest here, if any of them had written the truth about what went on (or didn't) and they had stuck to the boring, provable facts, would they have sold half the books, would you have purchased a book that said it was all in Diana's imagination - probably not!
  #496  
Old 05-26-2006, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katemac63
IF William had been a bit older and had more years of freedom under his belt, I would certainly have wished and wanted that he be made King. He would have less baggage.....
You are right. William does have less baggage, thats because he has until fairly recently, lived a relatively sheltered life. That is what baggage is, life lessons learned the hard way, or as someone more philosophical said "experience is the name we give our mistakes". William has yet to 'live' to make them!

William has yet to become his own man. In many tabloids, reputable newspapers, television news/documentaries, forums and postings he is still referred to as 'Diana's child' or one of 'her boys (literally)'. Until such time as he is defined as 'Prince William', a man in his own right, with his own life and his own opinions he will forever remain as this split personallity, William the poster boy / William the child. William the cypher.

Charles is next in line to the throne. He's worked for it. He's earned it. And done nothing to make himself ineligable. William, in turn, will be ready when his time comes, not his father's,
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  #497  
Old 05-26-2006, 10:31 AM
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I don't discount all of what Burrell said, but he's been known to exaggerate whether from Diana's imagination or more likely, just making himself out to be more important than he was.
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  #498  
Old 06-05-2006, 02:02 AM
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I'm making my first post and how nice to be able to say "Best wishes for Camilla!."

I have always been sorry for the circumstances that prevented Charles and Camilla from being a "couple" from the beginning, but fate has a heavy hand. When I learned that she was his true love, I knew that there was much going on that would never be known by the public. I was sympathetic towards Camilla (remember the boors who actually threw things at her in a food market?) because I could imagine what she was going through, all for being in love.

When I had a good look at Camilla, I could see that she had a woman's face and a woman's figure and a woman's eyes. Sorry, but Diana's eyes were vacant, her body was athletic, and she was (by all accounts) extremely self-centered. Camilla's eyes are "deep" with passion, understanding, faith, and humour. She seems to be much like my own friends. Hard-working, intelligent, family-oriented, good-hearted, generous, and good-humoured.

She is as lovely as I could ever have hoped her to be now that she is free to be completely open with her adoration and affection for Charles. Yes, she now is able to spend more on her wardrobe, and he is, no doubt, proud of her. But, I'm sure she is just as loved in her sweats or riding gear.

Also, the Duchess is surrounded by quality people who have been her friends for years. Diana couldn't seem to make a friend or keep one. When she died, she wasn't on speaking terms with any of her family, and didn't have a single female friend of her own age or class. That is very instructive. The Duchess knows that to have a friend, you have to be a friend, and hers are lifelong. Also, Camilla loves animals and is surrounded by them. Diana was afraid of horses and had no need for dogs. That is also very instructive.

Incidentally, I want to tell our New Zealand friends that I am a history major and also follow popular culture. Kipling's phrase "Lest We Forget" was first popularly applied to the ANZAC heroes (dead or alive) from the Battle for Gallipoli. It was later extended to include all military heroes from WWI, and was made part of Poppy Day or Armistice Day. It was extended again to include WWII, specifically the heroes of the Battle of Britain, Pearl Harbor, the Battles of Midway, Guadalcanal, Iwa Jima, Monte Cassino, the Bataan Death March, the Battle of the Bulge, and all military battles including D-Day, V-E Day and V-J Day. "Lest We Forget" is a reference to key battles, defeats, and victories suffered by the military members of the Allies who fought those who would attempt to mount a World War against free and democratic people of the world. That term has nothing to do with Langston Huges (who was only 13 years old at the time of Gallipoli, and who later became a communist, which was the very opposite of "Lest We Forget"), or Paul Dunbar (who had been dead for 9 years at the time of Gallipoli).

Yes, any group can appropriate any words, but "Lest We Forget" forever identifies the military heroes of democratic nations, who gave their all, so that civilians may be free to pursue their own particular interests.

[I hope I didn't write too much. I'll slow down, but I had so much to say after reading this entire thread.]
  #499  
Old 06-05-2006, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northernchoir
I'm making my first post and how nice to be able to say "Best wishes for Camilla!" ...(hope I didn't write too much.)
Welcome to the Forums northernchoir.
You didn't "write too much": post length is never an issue when the content has substance.
Thank you clarifying the origin and application of "Lest We Forget" (and for remembering Gallipoli, which has great significance in Australia and New Zealand).
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  #500  
Old 06-05-2006, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northernchoir
I'm making my first post and how nice to be able to say "Best wishes for Camilla!."
Yes, any group can appropriate any words, but "Lest We Forget" forever identifies the military heroes of democratic nations, who gave their all, so that civilians may be free to pursue their own particular interests.
Hi northernchoir, Welcome to the forums and with such a lovely informative post. Thank you from me as well for clarifying the origins of 'Lest we forget'. :)
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