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  #461  
Old 05-20-2006, 09:16 PM
maryshawn's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I think the statement made by the Countess of Airlie about George VI, at the time he was proposing to Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon and being rejected by her, is being very well demonstrated in his grandson; she said that George VI (or the Duke of York, as he then was) was someone who would be made or marred by his wife.

Prince Charles and his first wife unfortunately just damaged each other; he's almost a different person these days, now he has a wife who bolsters his self-confidence.
As an avid Diana watcher, I didn't particularly care for Camilla back when the speculation began that Charles had resumed his affair with Camilla--and this had plunged Diana into a state of despair. But much has been learned/revealed since then and, Elspeth, your Countess of Arlie quote sums up the dynamic between Camilla and Charles perfectly. They "fit" together. Both look genuinely happy and pleased to be in one another's company--and that sense of well-being seems to emanate to those they meet. It's a highly complimentary relationship. I think the measures of respect they show one another are good examples for all couples. :)
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  #462  
Old 05-21-2006, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
It's interesting that once the marriage went sour, Lady Fermoy was reported as having warned Diana that she didn't think it would be a good idea, yet before the wedding she was credited as one of the matchmakers along with her chum the Queen Mother. Methinks some Spencer spin may have been involved there or maybe the Queen Mother didn't want to be seen as complicit in such an abject failure. The press didn't make the connection about Camilla advising Charles until some time later, if I'm remembering the timing right. I don't know if that was because Diana talked about it to someone or if someone else let it slip. I'm pretty sure that Camilla's (and Dale Tryon's) vetting of Charles's girlfriends was known early on, if not even at the time of the engagement, but the notion that Camilla had basically arranged Charles's marriage is a bit more recent.
I have read that Camilla did check out all of Charles's girlfirends, for suitability. I seriously wonder if that is why some of the prospective candidates backed off.. Perhaps they were more aware of the possible relationship between Charles and Camilla. Anne Wallace, for example, walked out of an event because Charles left her on the sidelines, to dance the night away with Camilla.She ended the relationship by doing so.
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  #463  
Old 05-21-2006, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
As the agony aunt, Anna Raeburn often says, "We dont behave badly because someone else does, we behave badly because we want to and that's that". I for one totally agree with her.

[...]She wanted to get her own back but can we honestly say that that's acceptable because Charles was having an affair? Two wrongs don't make a right.

[...]We can be hypocrites but it's just acceptable. We don't think twice about it.
If hypocrisy is excepted than judging someone's character based on little no facts, vengence, and blaiming other people for one's actions should be just as acceptable IMO as they all are comtemptable. But if we can allow one, why not all? To say that judging Camilla and Charles is wrong but then being okay with hypocrisy seems unfair to me.

I have come to the realization that Camilla and Charles are great for each other and that they will "rule" England v. well. But I am also willing to admit I am one of those people who will never see them as wonderful and great they are now just because of the past. The past may be the past, but there was an old saying that happened right around the time of Paul Lawrence Dunbar and Langston Hughes and it was "lest we forget." It was something that was repeated over and over to me as a child and as an adult. I believe you can believe the past behind you, but it doesn't mean you should forget it. I think it's great if the people who matter the most are all smiles about the DOC and what a nice person she is, but for me, I don't see it that way. And luckily, my opinon doesn't really count.
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  #464  
Old 05-21-2006, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vita
If hypocrisy is excepted than judging someone's character based on little no facts, vengence, and blaiming other people for one's actions should be just as acceptable IMO as they all are comtemptable. But if we can allow one, why not all? To say that judging Camilla and Charles is wrong but then being okay with hypocrisy seems unfair to me.

I have come to the realization that Camilla and Charles are great for each other and that they will "rule" England v. well. But I am also willing to admit I am one of those people who will never see them as wonderful and great they are now just because of the past. The past may be the past, but there was an old saying that happened right around the time of Paul Lawrence Dunbar and Langston Hughes and it was "lest we forget." It was something that was repeated over and over to me as a child and as an adult. I believe you can believe the past behind you, but it doesn't mean you should forget it. I think it's great if the people who matter the most are all smiles about the DOC and what a nice person she is, but for me, I don't see it that way. And luckily, my opinon doesn't really count.
You are quite correct. It was a very hurtful past and the DOC certainly made her own way, not caring much about her husband, children or Diana. She may, personally, be a nice person, but she was also selfish. Yes, Diana did cheat, too, and that isn't right no matter what, but her marriage was a sham from the beginning, not "when it irritrievely broke down", as he reported. He never intended not to have a mistriss. He just thought he'd have a wife that would behave and ignore it. And, maybe she should have. Camilla would still be the mistress and Diana would be Pricess of Wales. Now, Diana is dead and their is a whole group just so willing to say "this adultress" is just the perfect queen material we need. Yes, he has always loved her and she does work well for him, but I like the previous "lest we forget".
  #465  
Old 05-21-2006, 10:19 PM
ysbel's Avatar
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I've never been a fan of 'lest we forget' because it always seemed an excuse to hold on to old hurts.

I doubt if the group that sees Camilla as Queen material think of her as just an adulteress, they are willing to see more of Camilla other than the fact that she had an extramarital relationship with Charles. Its not exactly seeing the whole person because nobody here can know the whole Camilla but they're willing to see that C&C have a happy marriage and that she fits in with the Royals and that is good for the monarchy.

The same goes for Charles. We can only guess but we can't know the whole Charles and we can't know that he never intended not to have a mistress. The story of a 'sham' marriage was brought out after Charles' first marriage broke down when hurts and accusations were flying.
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  #466  
Old 05-21-2006, 10:34 PM
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I believe since the BRF, Harry and William, and other members of both sides appear to be falling in behind Charles and Camilla it is only a matter of time before people will accept them as they wish to be accpeted, as any other married royal couple.
  #467  
Old 05-22-2006, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vita
"lest we forget."
"lest we forget" is a beautiful phrase which is used to remember soldiers who were killed in wars. It's to honour the men and women who gave their lives to defend their countries. In Australia at least, this phrase is used during the ANZAC day services which honour service personel and also on Remembrance Day which honours those military personel who lost their lives in various wars.

I'm horrified to even think that it could be used in a vindictive and hold a grudge forever way. I'm just shocked that this phrase is used to justify holding a grudge and not being able to move on.

Please don't desecrate the phrase "lest we forget" in such a way.
  #468  
Old 05-22-2006, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1
"lest we forget" is a beautiful phrase which is used to remember soldiers who were killed in wars. It's to honour the men and women who gave their lives to defend their countries. In Australia at least, this phrase is used during the ANZAC day services which honour service personel and also on Remembrance Day which honours those military personel who lost their lives in various wars.

I'm horrified to even think that it could be used in a vindictive and hold a grudge forever way. I'm just shocked that this phrase is used to justify holding a grudge and not being able to move on.

Please don't desecrate the phrase "lest we forget" in such a way.
New Zealand ditto
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  #469  
Old 05-22-2006, 02:15 AM
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Perhaps we could move on now? This thread is beginning to get off topic.
  #470  
Old 05-22-2006, 01:30 PM
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My opinion now is "I was wrong all the time"
I changed my mind about the world, so I've changed my opinion about Camilla and Charles too ;]
Camilla seems a nice person to me now, she makes Charles happy(Charles words) and thats all what reallly matters, and the another things: duchess dutiesand bla bla bla, she does very well
So there's not wrong with them now, the Diana's stories are past, ok Diana was a beautiful person with a beautiful soul and bla bla bla, I'm sure she's in heaven right now
but we have to keep going with are lives, charles had the RIGHT to marry someone , why not? he's a person just like us, he loves too
Its HIS life
But all this is past too, now the're married and I'm happy they are happy ^^
  #471  
Old 05-22-2006, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nad25
What??? Camilla love the Prince of Wales in a motherly way?? What makes any one think like that!!! Shes only like two years older than him!

I think what you'll find in the two that they got a lot in common and they both share similar interests icluding their love for one another thats lasted for yearssss!
It's interesting to read how you see it as I spontaneously agree with it. Talk about Mileage.... :)
  #472  
Old 05-22-2006, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte
Please don't desecrate the phrase "lest we forget" in such a way.
"Lest we forget how fragile we are".... Sting - Fragile
  #473  
Old 05-23-2006, 08:07 AM
Gentry
 
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I have just had 3 wonderful nites of watching the royals on TV.
Diana: Her Legacey ; Margaret: The Royal Rebel; and another on the Queen Mother.
After watching all 3, and of course , especially Diana, my feelings regarding the duchess have not changed but have only been reinforced.
I agree that charles and camilla are a much better "fit", and he is much happier, with her. However, I really do not care if he is happy or not, as a person. AND I will draw my own conclusions about their characters from what has been published and documented in film documentaries, and books.
Please remember I do not "hate" these two,simply see them differently from the majory of views on here. I am amazed that they are to be the future monarchs of the UK and the commonwealth countries, after all is said and done.
  #474  
Old 05-23-2006, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate Julie
However, I really do not care if he is happy or not, as a person.
Fair enough, but do you care about the success of the monarchy? If not, then it doesn't really matter whether Charles is happy or not. If you do, its interesting to think that a monarchy with a dissatisfied king will be strong enough to withstand the onslaughts that monarchies face these days. Or even, the son of a dissatisfied king who never saw either of his parents in a good marriage.
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  #475  
Old 05-23-2006, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate Julie
However, I really do not care if he is happy or not,
I watched the programmes concerning the living royal family but, to each his or her own!
I care whether anyone is happy or not, that is called human decency, IMO.
  #476  
Old 05-23-2006, 09:34 AM
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This makes me think that no matter what kind of situation we are in, we must strive to survive, to live. Otherwise, onces you are dead, those you care(including your partners) will eventually move on, if not right away! The world will forget about you as time passes by and those who trully cared about you, might no longer have voices to defend you. Sure past is past and we all move on but if it is really true, then we have no reason to learn the history or classic. We have no reason to read books either, since the news is the only thing treated as important aspect of life.
If that were true, we should just push the reset botton like the computer-but then , we are not machines but human being with compassion and heart-and we will always remember the beautiful, nice, yet tragic late princess Diana.
  #477  
Old 05-23-2006, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julial
Otherwise, once you are dead, those you care (including your partners) will eventually move on, if not right away! The world will forget about you as time passes by and those who trully cared about you, might no longer have voices to defend you.
That is what is supposed to happen. After someone dies (even a partner) they are not forgotten but, remembered by their family. Even when it was the most loving relationship, after a time you move on. It is called life!
  #478  
Old 05-23-2006, 10:40 AM
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Frankly speaking i think charles and camilla are happy and may they also remain so.
  #479  
Old 05-23-2006, 10:59 AM
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Even ordinary people deserve their own happiness, how about Prince Charles? We should be not so cruel to Prince Charles and Camilla. After all they are no longer young people. I am sure, Diana would have found her own happiness if she were still alive. She would offer her best wishes to Charles and Camilla, why can't others follow suit? Love is the most hardest thing to understand in the world. At least finally Charles found a woman who is able to share his burden of his duty and his life. I really cannot stand his sadness and his solitude on his face and in his soul. I want a happy Prince Charles and I want a happy king .
  #480  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Fair enough, but do you care about the success of the monarchy? If not, then it doesn't really matter whether Charles is happy or not. If you do, its interesting to think that a monarchy with a dissatisfied king will be strong enough to withstand the onslaughts that monarchies face these days. Or even, the son of a dissatisfied king who never saw either of his parents in a good marriage.
I DO want to see the monarchy survive - of course charles has to be happy, to enable him to do his job correctly and properly. If it is camilla that helps him to be happy , sobeit...Doesn't mean one has to approve of the person.I am not talking about the position.
Merely of the person.:)
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