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  #441  
Old 05-19-2006, 01:53 PM
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I have no idea Elspeth. That's what she said. I mean, she's in her 80s now I think so she's allowed to get things wrong. But then again, is it really that outrageous a suggestion? Diana was 19 when they made things official so maybe 3 years before isn't that much of a jump. Who knows?
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  #442  
Old 05-19-2006, 02:19 PM
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Interesting Elspeth. I thought it was later than that but apparently the Daily Express printed a story about Charles' and Marie-Astrid's impending engagement in 1977, so you're right. I wonder if that's when Lady Mountbatten referred to. I know Diana was at a Swiss finishing school sometime in 1977 and moved to London in 1978 because all her movements were widely reported when the engagement was announced.

I'm not inclined in general to disbelieve Lady Mountbatten but it looks like at least one of the times Charles and Diana met was through her sister, Sarah. He had broken up with Sarah by about this time but they were still friends (as appears to be a habit with Charles) and he invited her to his 30th birthday party in 1978. Apparently Sarah asked if her little sister could come along and Charles said yes. I can't remember though exactly when Sarah and Charles dated.
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  #443  
Old 05-19-2006, 02:26 PM
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I've heard that story true but it's a little too fairy tale for my liking. It could have happened that way, but I think that actually Lady M is right but maybe the Queen Mother and Lady Fermoy really DID match Charles and Diana up after Camilla suggested her to Charles.
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  #444  
Old 05-19-2006, 02:44 PM
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While reading through this site, I think some of you may have missed the fact that it was the BRF who set the standards for acceptibility. How people feel about Camilla is really irrelevant to that standard. Their standard said she was "unsuitable, used goods, so to speak". If he had married her then, other than the "High and Mighty Precepts" of the BRF, who would have cared? Instead, one life was really ruined, the Princess's, Charles and Camilla spent 30 years cheating and in the end they are together. Now, it is okay. It is hypocrisy at its worst. She is a good wife to him and he loves her. Maybe, if Charles had shown Diana the same kind of love, things would be different. You can argue this forever. It won't change anything. Today is today and yesterday is gone. Also, deleting posts because you disagree with them is also hypocrisy. Everyone is entitled to an opinion nice or not. Don't pose a question if you do not want to hear alternate answers.
  #445  
Old 05-19-2006, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nad25
Lol i dont know if i misunderstood you or you have misunderstood me:) ..i never said that i like Camilla neither dislike her, i was only pointing out that really non of us really know her personally and that people shouldnt take opinions and views of others to their hearts, thats all my point of view was, but i still think that she's a person whos clearly making the Prince of Wales very happy man and also his own kids love her to bits and have put whatever happend before she came into their lives in the past and moved on with life.
No, I think it was me that put it badly. :) You said: -
I completly understand some comments on Camilla and how some people really dislike her for what happend in the past.
I don't understand how anyone can make absolute judgements without the facts or at least both sides of the story.
I don't disagree with you on any other points and I am sorry if anyone thought I did! :)
  #446  
Old 05-19-2006, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I've heard that story true but it's a little too fairy tale for my liking. It could have happened that way, but I think that actually Lady M is right but maybe the Queen Mother and Lady Fermoy really DID match Charles and Diana up after Camilla suggested her to Charles.
You may have a point about the fairytale part, BeatrixFan .

With Charles' tendency to depend on his friends, it makes total sense that Charles asked one of his friends to help him find someone and that he asked Camilla's opinion of Diana. What doesn't make sense is that he asked Camilla to find someone for him and she ended up finding Diana when he had so many other opportunities to meet Diana outside Camilla.

The birthday party I mentioned wasn't the only place Charles and Diana were said to have met through Sarah. In one of the videotapes Diana made for the Andrew Morton book, she did mention being around Charles and Sarah when they dated. Diana also mentioned in another tape about coming up to Charles after Lord Mountbatten's funeral in 1979. I think a lot of the things said in the videotapes were exaggerated but whatever agenda Diana may have had when she made the tapes, I don't see how making up a story that she was with Charles and Sarah when she wasn't would help any agenda she had.
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  #447  
Old 05-19-2006, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox6
Instead, one life was really ruined, the Princess's, Also, deleting posts because you disagree with them is also hypocrisy. Everyone is entitled to an opinion nice or not. Don't pose a question if you do not want to hear alternate answers.
I think deleting totally off topic posts is great and I lose as many as others. I get fed up with the same old, same old of how only one life was affected by Charles and Camillas affair, the convenient amnesia regarding the other guilty party and her affairs and what effect that had on the other wives and children involved.
As someone who is pro Camilla and regularly gets posts deleted, I have to say on the whole our moderators try to be fair and evenhanded!
  #448  
Old 05-19-2006, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox6
While reading through this site, I think some of you may have missed the fact that it was the BRF who set the standards for acceptibility. How people feel about Camilla is really irrelevant to that standard. Their standard said she was "unsuitable, used goods, so to speak". If he had married her then, other than the "High and Mighty Precepts" of the BRF, who would have cared? Instead, one life was really ruined, the Princess's, Charles and Camilla spent 30 years cheating and in the end they are together. Now, it is okay. It is hypocrisy at its worst. She is a good wife to him and he loves her. Maybe, if Charles had shown Diana the same kind of love, things would be different. You can argue this forever. It won't change anything. Today is today and yesterday is gone. Also, deleting posts because you disagree with them is also hypocrisy. Everyone is entitled to an opinion nice or not. Don't pose a question if you do not want to hear alternate answers.
redfox I definitely agree with you that the BRF set the standards for acceptibility but if you want to question a moderator's decision on deleting posts, we ask you as we have asked the rest of the members to send us a private message rather than post it on the boards. This is standard on all the forums on The Royal Forums.
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  #449  
Old 05-19-2006, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
You may have a point about the fairytale part, BeatrixFan .

With Charles' tendency to depend on his friends, it makes total sense that Charles asked one of his friends to help him find someone and that he asked Camilla's opinion of Diana. What doesn't make sense is that he asked Camilla to find someone for him and she ended up finding Diana when he had so many other opportunities to meet Diana outside Camilla.
That is true, didn't Charles go out with Diana's sister once?
  #450  
Old 05-19-2006, 03:41 PM
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Charles and Diana's marriage was sad, but how about the life of Edward VIII? At least the history didn't repeat itself and Charles married Diana and had two boys as his heirs. I think it was Diana's destiny to be the mother of the heirs of Prince Charles but it was Camilla's destiny to support and encourage Prince Charles to be a great Prince of Wales and a great king.

I only regarded Camilla as one of the key influencers in Charles's decision to marry Diana. Other key influencers were Queen Mother, Lady Fermoy, the press and the people. The press pushed the idea of "Shy Di is the ideal bride for Prince of Wales" and this forced Charles to think he should marry Diana to please his people and his family. Marriage is a part of his duty and we should accept that. Even it was cruel, but Charles's marriage would be never a love match. At least Charles used his tragedy to allow William to marry for love in the future.
  #451  
Old 05-19-2006, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
No, I think it was me that put it badly. :) You said: -
I completly understand some comments on Camilla and how some people really dislike her for what happend in the past.
I don't understand how anyone can make absolute judgements without the facts or at least both sides of the story.
I don't disagree with you on any other points and I am sorry if anyone thought I did! :)
Its alright to agree or disagree with each other because we all different personalities and have different views as well, theres no need to apologize it was an honest misunderstanding really:)
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  #452  
Old 05-19-2006, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by love_cc
The press pushed the idea of "Shy Di is the ideal bride for Prince of Wales" and this forced Charles to think he should marry Diana to please his people and his family. Marriage is a part of his duty and we should accept that. Even it was cruel, but Charles's marriage would be never a love match. At least Charles used his tragedy to allow William to marry for love in the future.
Oftentimes people point a finger at the press as being a culprit for celebrity breakups but it seems more likely that when you are the heir to a throne you really could care less about what they report and are more interested in what politicians want.
  #453  
Old 05-19-2006, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I've heard that story true but it's a little too fairy tale for my liking. It could have happened that way, but I think that actually Lady M is right but maybe the Queen Mother and Lady Fermoy really DID match Charles and Diana up after Camilla suggested her to Charles.
It's interesting that once the marriage went sour, Lady Fermoy was reported as having warned Diana that she didn't think it would be a good idea, yet before the wedding she was credited as one of the matchmakers along with her chum the Queen Mother. Methinks some Spencer spin may have been involved there or maybe the Queen Mother didn't want to be seen as complicit in such an abject failure. The press didn't make the connection about Camilla advising Charles until some time later, if I'm remembering the timing right. I don't know if that was because Diana talked about it to someone or if someone else let it slip. I'm pretty sure that Camilla's (and Dale Tryon's) vetting of Charles's girlfriends was known early on, if not even at the time of the engagement, but the notion that Camilla had basically arranged Charles's marriage is a bit more recent.
  #454  
Old 05-19-2006, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
redfox I definitely agree with you that the BRF set the standards for acceptibility but if you want to question a moderator's decision on deleting posts, we ask you as we have asked the rest of the members to send us a private message rather than post it on the boards. This is standard on all the forums on The Royal Forums.
I appologize for not knowing that rule about post removal. It was not my post. I just wanted everyone to be treated fairly.

As to Charles, he is a spoiled, self-centered person. He loves Camilla because she fawns all over him. Camilla is smart, because she knows what side her "bread is buttered on" and has held on for 30 years and that has paid off. He accused his parents of being distant and cold, in the Dimbleby book. His mother thinks he is too extravagant, from the Brandeth book, Philip and Elizabeth. Diana and he both needed love and nurturing, neither could give it to the other. Diana cheated after he lead the way and wanted to have a back at you. Too bad for all.
  #455  
Old 05-19-2006, 04:53 PM
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It's all a big game of what ifs in the end. For every action there is a reaction. Either positive or negative. If Prince Charles and Camilla hadn't been carrying on (according to all the biographies I've read) maybe Diana wouldn't have had cause to do the things she did. It doesn't make her right. But again, I don't think people overlook what she did or her wrongs, I think people see her as a victim who made bad choices because she was for lack of a better word, a victim. Again that whole underdog theory comes into play.

But here's the thing to get this back on topic: Times are a changing, and the point is that what the BRF before and during HM's reign held as the standards for their family is changing. The Queen has approved of Camilla enough to allow the marriage to happen. And as much as I love HM she is not without fault. She could have put her foot down a long time ago and allowed Camilla and Charles to wed, then Diana would never have been in the equation. And Prince Charles it seems couldn't or wouldn't stand up to him Mummy to tell that he was in love and was choosing love. He did his duty. Now Camilla is princess and Charles is happy because he has his love. I think that played a major role in the Queen and church allowing the marriage. This man is going to be king one day, and when he is wouldn't it be better to have a king who is happy than to have one who isn't? Camilla makes him happy.

You know what Camilla and Charles represent to me? They represent the British way of life. On the one hand you guys can be very traditional about things, but at the same time you have that rebellion thing going on too. A need to be modern. That's what this couple is. Charles is very traditional but he's got a lot of modern ideas. And the fact that he and Camilla are married reflects that.
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  #456  
Old 05-19-2006, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
If Prince Charles and Camilla hadn't been carrying on (according to the biographies) maybe Diana wouldn't have had cause to do the things she did.
As the agony aunt, Anna Raeburn often says, "We dont behave badly because someone else does, we behave badly because we want to and that's that". I for one totally agree with her.

Quote:
As to Charles, he is a spoiled, self-centered person. He loves Camilla because she fawns all over him. Camilla is smart, because she knows what side her "bread is buttered on" and has held on for 30 years and that has paid off.
I'm sorry but that is just wrong. If Charles was self-centered, would he bother with his charity work? No, he'd say, "Bugger the lot" and live a life of pleasure which he hasn't done. He works hard and I think it's very very unfair to say he's self-centered. He was never spoilt. The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh made sure he wasn't spoilt. He certainly wasn't spoilt at Gordonstoun nor in the Navy.

Camilla may fawn over him, but what else is love? I know that in my relationships, I've fawned over people I've been with because it's just the natural thing to do. When the love in the relationship goes, you don't. The love in their relationship has never gone so it's natural she should tell him he does good things, that he's good looking etc.

Camilla had a fair amount of money before she met Charles. She certainly didn't and doesn't need to be with Charles for financial security and we know it isn't for publicity so I find that completely ridiculous.

Quote:
Diana cheated after he lead the way and wanted to have a back at you.
She wanted to get her own back but can we honestly say that that's acceptable because Charles was having an affair? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Quote:
You know what Camilla and Charles represent to me? They represent the British ways of life. On the one hand you guys can very traditional about things, but at the same time you have that rebellion thing going on too. A need to be modern. That's what this couple is. Charles is very traditional but he's got a lot of modern ideas. And the fact that he and Camilla are married reflects that.
I agree. As I said before, we like tradition and we set our expectations. For example, in the early 20th century we didn't want our Royal Family marrying commoners. They married foreign Princes and Princesses and now people criticise the RF for having foreign blood. We can be hypocrites but it's just acceptable. We don't think twice about it.
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  #457  
Old 05-19-2006, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
As to Charles, he is a spoiled, self-centered person. He loves Camilla because she fawns all over him. Camilla is smart, because she knows what side her "bread is buttered on" and has held on for 30 years and that has paid off. He accused his parents of being distant and cold, in the Dimbleby book. His mother thinks he is too extravagant, from the Brandeth book, Philip and Elizabeth. Diana and he both needed love and nurturing, neither could give it to the other. Diana cheated after he lead the way and wanted to have a back at you. Too bad for all.

It is not strange for me to know that Camilla loves in Charles in a mothering way. It's Camilla's mothering features that will heal the past pains in Charles's heart since his childhood. I find it wonderful and touching. Camilla loves Charles in a much deeper way than we thought. She provides him sufficient attention, love, support, encouragment ,praise, warmth, understanding, steadiness, ressuarance,comfort to ensure Charles felt he is loved and wanted. I just felt pity for Charles's life because he failed to gain those things from his parents and his first wife. For me, Camilla is a precious gift happened to Charles's wife which can heal his unpleasant past and create his future.
  #458  
Old 05-20-2006, 06:31 AM
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What??? Camilla love the Prince of Wales in a motherly way?? What makes any one think like that!!! Shes only like two years older than him!

I think what you'll find in the two that they got a lot in common and they both share similar interests icluding their love for one another thats lasted for yearssss!
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  #459  
Old 05-20-2006, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
The papers went public with the Marie Astrid story in 1976 or 1977, when Diana was only something like 15 or 16. Is Countess Mountbatten suggesting that Camilla had her eye on Diana as a possible consort when she was still a schoolgirl, or am I misunderstanding the timing she's referring to?
I doubt whether Charles was seriously looking at a Luxemburg princess as a possible wife as Marie Astrid is catholic and if they had married he would have lost his place in the line of succession, therefore she was not an appropriate future bride. The newspapers in the mid 70's when Marie Astrid was studying English in the UK went overboard on the speculation that she was to be a possible bride, so much so that the media exposure drove Marie Astrid to leave the UK. The newspapers also tried to link Charles with Princess Caroline of Monaco ( another catholic).

I think Countess Mountbatten's recount is somewhat hazy as to events and what was said. The more likely scenario, rather than Camilla choosing Diana for Charles would have been him saying "What do you think of Diana?" As already stated she was already part of his orbit, she wasn't a complete stranger in his world.
  #460  
Old 05-20-2006, 09:45 AM
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At the time the press here were saying that Princess Marie Astrid was "the Queen's choice". The religion question was glossed over; maybe the assumption was that she would gladly become an Anglican to achieve her destiny. :)

I still have (somewhere) an old story about [Crown] Princess Margarita of Romania when she was being touted as a possible consort for Charles, along with Princess Xenia of Prussia, and if I recall correctly, Princess Marita of Schleswig-Holstein. No doubt there were many other names bandied around, with the same level of credibility as the "Caroline of Monaco for Charles" speculation.
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