Camilla & Charles: How has your opinion changed since the wedding?

[Empress]

Hello everyone -

Please remember that any personal exchanges need to be carried out via PM. The temperature in this thread seems to be rising, and the next outbreak of personal comments will close the thread for clean up.

I am sure you are all mature enough to have some restraint and not take exception at every possible turn.

Empress

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

The only friend who has spoken, was Jilly and that was with tacit approval and an agreement that she would be very careful in what she said, I understand.

Who is 'Jilly'?

It's an interesting discussion some of you have been having about loyalty.
I think the loyalty of Camilla's friends shows that she gives them strong reasons to be loyal. She is loyal to them, and so they return the favor. Like attracts like. Good friends have good friends.

I do not want to engage in yet more Diana/Camilla comparison, but comparisons are so useful for illustration. With Diana, she fluctuated in her alliances so much that her "friends" never knew what they would have any given day. Will it be 'sweet' Diana or 'sulky' Diana or whatever? So maybe Diana attracted the same to her, the fluctuating, the unstable, the non-loyal.
She was such a person, with such "friends". Maybe....

[Russophile]

CT, you can't get away from the comparisons, there will ALWAYS be comparisons. There is no doubt in my mind that Diana did a LOT of good in her short life. She brought a lot of attention to good causes and broke a lot of barriers. She most likely would have done that to the end of her days, were they not cut short. But I do have to tell you, I am enjoying Camilla and the way she's stepping into the spotlight. I like the way she's handling her duties and the way she's supporting Charles. She's coming into her own and I see a very confident, strong woman here that's a definite asset to the RF.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio

Who is 'Jilly'?

It's an interesting discussion some of you have been having about loyalty.
I think the loyalty of Camilla's friends shows that she gives them strong reasons to be loyal. She is loyal to them, and so they return the favor. Like attracts like. Good friends have good friends.

Jilly is a friend of Camilla's and a writer of some steamy novels!
Jilly Cooper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Russophile

CT, you can't get away from the comparisons, there will ALWAYS be comparisons. There is no doubt in my mind that Diana did a LOT of good in her short life. She brought a lot of attention to good causes and broke a lot of barriers. She most likely would have done that to the end of her days, were they not cut short. But I do have to tell you, I am enjoying Camilla and the way she's stepping into the spotlight. I like the way she's handling her duties and the way she's supporting Charles. She's coming into her own and I see a very confident, strong woman here that's a definite asset to the RF.

I like that - breaking up that endless Diana-Camilla-circle.

[Jo of Palatine]

Sometimes I think that I found the reason why part of the media and some people are so emotionally opposed towards Charles and Camilla: because Charles is such a picture-perfect prince. He really is a gentleman as well as a nobleman, he keeps his faults (according to Dimbleby: he likes to complain and has a streal of self-pity) under wraps and he goes out of his way to make people comfortable, showing a caring side that people really enjoy. He gives a lot of thought and work to better the life of others, while his personal indulgences seem small compared to what he achieves for people not so lucky as him. He is a deep thinker but not arrogant about it, he never appeared a genius but he is an example of what even kids from a non-academic family could achieve if they got proper help ().

He is Mr. Nice Guy personified and after close to 60 years of public scrutiny, I guess we would know if he had a dark side to him (other than his marriage to Di, but I come to that ).

Enter Camilla: well, she is the idea of a British lady personified and if it wasn't for a certain princess and the media, nobody would have ever discussed her private life in public, much less seen her as the center of a scandal. And the really bad thing for the media is: she is obviously as genuine an article as her prince.

So - where is the reason for the obvious dislike of the prince and his second wife? I guess it has to do with shame that the media and a lot of people fell for Diana's spell. If this prince was so picture-perfect and if his princess was the fairytale come true: why did their marriage not work out? So in order to whiten the coat of the princess, they had to blacken the prince and find the witch who was responsible.

The media caters for the public - they try to anticipate the public's reaction and attune their stories according to it. So I have hope: once the Diana-inquest is finished, there will be silence, only occassionally disturbed by some reminiscences but never threatened by some real news about her.
She will fianlly rest in peace while Britain may be allowed to enjoy their perfect prince and his darling wife. Or so I hope.

[rmay286]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Sometimes I think that I found the reason why part of the media and some people are so emotionally opposed towards Charles and Camilla: because Charles is such a picture-perfect prince. He really is a gentleman as well as a nobleman, he keeps his faults (according to Dimbleby: he likes to complain and has a streal of self-pity) under wraps and he goes out of his way to make people comfortable, showing a caring side that people really enjoy. He gives a lot of thought and work to better the life of others, while his personal indulgences seem small compared to what he achieves for people not so lucky as him. He is a deep thinker but not arrogant about it, he never appeared a genius but he is an example of what even kids from a non-academic family could achieve if they got proper help ().

He is Mr. Nice Guy personified and after close to 60 years of public scrutiny, I guess we would know if he had a dark side to him (other than his marriage to Di, but I come to that ).

Enter Camilla: well, she is the idea of a British lady personified and if it wasn't for a certain princess and the media, nobody would have ever discussed her private life in public, much less seen her as the center of a scandal. And the really bad thing for the media is: she is obviously as genuine an article as her prince.

So - where is the reason for the obvious dislike of the prince and his second wife? I guess it has to do with shame that the media and a lot of people fell for Diana's spell. If this prince was so picture-perfect and if his princess was the fairytale come true: why did their marriage not work out? So in order to whiten the coat of the princess, they had to blacken the prince and find the witch who was responsible.

The media caters for the public - they try to anticipate the public's reaction and attune their stories according to it. So I have hope: once the Diana-inquest is finished, there will be silence, only occassionally disturbed by some reminiscences but never threatened by some real news about her.
She will fianlly rest in peace while Britain may be allowed to enjoy their perfect prince and his darling wife. Or so I hope.

Wow, I don't know that I would call Charles a perfect prince. A bad guy with a dark side? No, but I think there are reasons people don't see Charles as a perfect prince and Camilla as a perfect princess beyond simply Diana. There are definitely some irrational Diana fans out there who hate everything Charles and Camilla do. But you don't have to have listened to a word Diana said or care anything about her to have reasons for thinking Charles and Camilla aren't the epitome of perfect royalty. I think here Charles and Camilla seem to be getting points for not talking about their private lives, being discreet and doing their social duty, etc. Maybe other people don't care as much about that, still think about the affair. I had to listen to another rant from my professor today about the dreadfulness of the whole royal family, no exceptions included. Partly because he thinks they're a waste of space anyway, partly because he thinks their personal lives all left something to be desired.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by rmay286

I had to listen to another rant from my professor today about the dreadfulness of the whole royal family, no exceptions included. Partly because he thinks they're a waste of space anyway, partly because he thinks their personal lives all left something to be desired.

Partly because secretly he'd like to BE a member of the RF???

[rmay286]

Originally Posted by Russophile

Partly because secretly he'd like to BE a member of the RF???

Who knows? I can't figure out actually why someone would have such a strong opinion against the royal family, but then I don't live in Britain. He said they should all get a "real job", he couldn't stand them.

Actually it's quite interesting having a professor from Britain. It's the first time I've ever encountered the subject of the royal family at university. He asked, "So do you guys think you should get rid of the Queen?" Everyone: "What's wrong with the queen? Getting rid of our ties to Britain would be too much work! Changing the constitution and all..." I think you can that tell the general Canadian population doesn't have strong feelings about the monarchy either way.

Even so, ideas trickle down. Someone did mention seeing a recent documentary asking whether the royal family still had a purpose--were they really good examples, what with Charles marrying his mistress "Carmilla" (sic)?

I guess the point I'm making from that is that not everyone has strong feelings about Diana, but are still picking up the message that Charles might be unfit as king/head of the Church of England because he had an affair and married his mistress. And that's a fact that has nothing to do with spin by Diana or Diana fans.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by rmay286

Actually it's quite interesting having a professor from Britain. It's the first time I've ever encountered the subject of the royal family at university. He asked, "So do you guys think you should get rid of the Queen?" Everyone: "What's wrong with the queen? Getting rid of our ties to Britain would be too much work! Changing the constitution and all..." I think you can that tell the general Canadian population doesn't have strong feelings about the monarchy either way.

Just because the chap is a professor, does not mean he is not a republican. According to this huge () poll of 1032 people, the majority of Canadians want to drop the monarchy.
Majority of Canadians want to drop monarchy: poll | International | Reuters

[milla Ca]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Sometimes I think that I found the reason why part of the media and some people are so emotionally opposed towards Charles and Camilla: because Charles is such a picture-perfect prince. He really is a gentleman as well as a nobleman, he keeps his faults (according to Dimbleby: he likes to complain and has a streal of self-pity) under wraps and he goes out of his way to make people comfortable, showing a caring side that people really enjoy. He gives a lot of thought and work to better the life of others, while his personal indulgences seem small compared to what he achieves for people not so lucky as him. He is a deep thinker but not arrogant about it, he never appeared a genius but he is an example of what even kids from a non-academic family could achieve if they got proper help ().

He is Mr. Nice Guy personified and after close to 60 years of public scrutiny, I guess we would know if he had a dark side to him (other than his marriage to Di, but I come to that ).

Enter Camilla: well, she is the idea of a British lady personified and if it wasn't for a certain princess and the media, nobody would have ever discussed her private life in public, much less seen her as the center of a scandal. And the really bad thing for the media is: she is obviously as genuine an article as her prince.

So - where is the reason for the obvious dislike of the prince and his second wife? I guess it has to do with shame that the media and a lot of people fell for Diana's spell. If this prince was so picture-perfect and if his princess was the fairytale come true: why did their marriage not work out? So in order to whiten the coat of the princess, they had to blacken the prince and find the witch who was responsible.

The media caters for the public - they try to anticipate the public's reaction and attune their stories according to it. So I have hope: once the Diana-inquest is finished, there will be silence, only occassionally disturbed by some reminiscences but never threatened by some real news about her.
She will fianlly rest in peace while Britain may be allowed to enjoy their perfect prince and his darling wife. Or so I hope.

Great post, Jo, thank you!

I wish i could share your optimsm that the press will no longer damage Charles and Camilla after the Diana inquest is finished.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Sometimes I think that I found the reason why part of the media and some people are so emotionally opposed towards Charles and Camilla: because Charles is such a picture-perfect prince. He really is a gentleman as well as a nobleman, he keeps his faults (according to Dimbleby: he likes to complain and has a streal of self-pity) under wraps and he goes out of his way to make people comfortable, showing a caring side that people really enjoy. He gives a lot of thought and work to better the life of others, while his personal indulgences seem small compared to what he achieves for people not so lucky as him. He is a deep thinker but not arrogant about it, he never appeared a genius but he is an example of what even kids from a non-academic family could achieve if they got proper help ().

He is Mr. Nice Guy personified and after close to 60 years of public scrutiny, I guess we would know if he had a dark side to him (other than his marriage to Di, but I come to that ).

Enter Camilla: well, she is the idea of a British lady personified and if it wasn't for a certain princess and the media, nobody would have ever discussed her private life in public, much less seen her as the center of a scandal. And the really bad thing for the media is: she is obviously as genuine an article as her prince.

So - where is the reason for the obvious dislike of the prince and his second wife? I guess it has to do with shame that the media and a lot of people fell for Diana's spell. If this prince was so picture-perfect and if his princess was the fairytale come true: why did their marriage not work out? So in order to whiten the coat of the princess, they had to blacken the prince and find the witch who was responsible.

The media caters for the public - they try to anticipate the public's reaction and attune their stories according to it. So I have hope: once the Diana-inquest is finished, there will be silence, only occassionally disturbed by some reminiscences but never threatened by some real news about her.
She will fianlly rest in peace while Britain may be allowed to enjoy their perfect prince and his darling wife. Or so I hope.

Good post Jo but I'd like to disagree. I don't think that Charles is seen as a picture perfect prince or Mr Nice Guy. I see his image more as Mr Forever-In-Waiting who has become a bid odd during this period (painting watercolours and talking to his plants) because after having given countless audiences or attended countless events and sparked interest in countless good causes (especially re environment or Prince's trust) he has clearly reached the point where he can't do more to raise his profile as heir; it's the top job that's missing to get any further. I don't see the Diana issue still being a major (negative) influence on his public image and I acutally think that getting married to Camilla was a step in the right direction. People (including me) were actually happy that he did what he should have done 30 years ago, finally!!! I think that Camilla is good for him and that they make a happy couple - he has finally made peace with himself. Having said that and I have said it before, I don't think that there is positive impact on the institution monarchy itself. I see Charles and Camilla more or less as an elderly couple, nice but a bit odd, same as HM & Prince Philip, but the difference is that those two are from a different generation and HM - due to her young age when taking over - has gained the respect of the public for the impact she has made as monarch. This is exactly what Charles and Camilla are missing - not their fault though - and the reason why people won't support a King Charles wholeheartly. There is nothing new about him, we've seen it all before, and all he will be is a King unable to leave the shadow of his mother. I see Camilla as neither loved or respected but nor hated; she might have a good impact on her husband in private life but won't have an impact for the better on the monarchy itself. It will be down to William to capture the young generation, re-raise interest in the institution and get the public to support him as King, both by working hard and getting married to a suitable wife who brings along some emotional intelligence, a "people's princess" (sadly the comparison to his mother will be inevitable). Good luck!

[milla Ca]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Good post Jo but I'd like to disagree. I don't think that Charles is seen as a picture perfect prince or Mr Nice Guy. I see his image more as Mr Forever-In-Waiting who has become a bid odd during this period (painting watercolours and talking to his plants) because after having given countless audiences or attended countless events and sparked interest in countless good causes (especially re environment or Prince's trust) he has clearly reached the point where he can't do more to raise his profile as heir; it's the top job that's missing to get any further. I don't see the Diana issue still being a major (negative) influence on his public image and I acutally think that getting married to Camilla was a step in the right direction. People (including me) were actually happy that he did what he should have done 30 years ago, finally!!! I think that Camilla is good for him and that they make a happy couple - he has finally made peace with himself. Having said that and I have said it before, I don't think that there is positive impact on the institution monarchy itself. I see Charles and Camilla more or less as an elderly couple, nice but a bit odd, same as HM & Prince Philip, but the difference is that those two are from a different generation and HM - due to her young age when taking over - has gained the respect of the public for the impact she has made as monarch. This is exactly what Charles and Camilla are missing - not their fault though - and the reason why people won't support a King Charles wholeheartly. There is nothing new about him, we've seen it all before, and all he will be is a King unable to leave the shadow of his mother. I see Camilla as neither loved or respected but nor hated; she might have a good impact on her husband in private life but won't have an impact for the better on the monarchy itself. It will be down to William to capture the young generation, re-raise interest in the institution and get the public to support him as King, both by working hard and getting married to a suitable wife who brings along some emotional intelligence, a "people's princess" (sadly the comparison to his mother will be inevitable). Good luck!

Duke of Marmalade, i disagree with most of your statements.

Your describtion of Charles as a heir who only paints watercolours and talks to plants is only fit for an article in a tabloid but nothing more.
The Prince is a hard working man ( maybe you should have a look in his diary), who travels around the country to support different projects, to help people, to represent the crown. He is president of many many charities and the Prince´s Trust helps and supports young people in a very successful way. Other things are his organic farm and his engagement for the environment which is respected also abroad.

Together with his wife, who is president of many charities herself and who always supports her husband in a great way, the Prince and the Duchess are not an odd couple but the future of the monarchy. There was never a Princ e of Wales who was so well prepared to do the job as a King before.

I hope in many many years ( after the reign of his father) we can say the same about William and his wife. At the moment he his only a young man learning a job but not someone who could be a good King yet or in the near future.