Camilla & Charles: How has your opinion changed since the wedding?

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

Since when you need to be a good person to gather loyal friends ? Many examples in History would prove the contrary.

I disagree, if you are not well thought of by your friends, they have no loyalty towards you.

What is your explanation for her friends silence, for all these years? There has to be something about her that attracts such loyalty and I believe it to be her loyalty and general treatment of the people lucky enough to be counted by her as friends. That to me is the mark of a good woman.

[TheTruth]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

I disagree, if you are not well thought of by your friends, they have no loyalty towards you.

What is your explanation for her friends silence, for all these years? There has to be something about her that attracts such loyalty and I believe it to be her loyalty and general treatment of the people lucky enough to be counted by her as friends. That to me is the mark of a good woman.

What I actually meant is that you don't need to be a good woman/man to have loyal friends. Here's a random example (no comparison AT ALL with Camilla but I don't know how I could explain it otherwise). Hitler had very loyal friends and many never betrayed him ; does this make him a good man ?

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

What I actually meant is that you don't need to be a good woman/man to have loyal friends. Here's a random example (no comparison AT ALL with Camilla but I don't know how I could explain it otherwise). Hitler had very loyal friends and many never betrayed him ; does this make him a good man ?

Kelly, please - no Hitler comparisons - this normally ends any discussion. And there were (thank the Lord!) lots who talked - they were not listened to, that was the sad thing!"

[COUNTESS]

I, too, was going to use the Hitler analogy, thank you. He still has loyal followers. As for protection, John Kennedy, said it best. It they want to kill you there is always a way. And, sadly, they did. Camilla is probably one of the least likely targets, but heck, it is not up to us. And, as Al Bina has stated, we're not paying for it. And, yes, there can always be some nut out there at any time, you can never prevent that.

[TheTruth]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Kelly, please - no Hitler comparisons - this normally ends any discussion. And there were (thank the Lord!) lots who talked - they were not listened to, that was the sad thing!"

Yep, you're right, sorry about that. But to me, no matter how loyal are your friends, it doesn't represent the person you are.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

But to me, no matter how loyal are your friends, it doesn't represent the person you are.

I dunno. I look at the Paris Hilton's and the Nicole Richies who run around talking about how loyal they are then turn around and stab each other in the back.
I think it's a tribute to The Duchess that she has a tight group of people zipping it, so to speak. Too many "Loyal" people were only too willing to give up Diana and Fergie. . . .

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

What I actually meant is that you don't need to be a good woman/man to have loyal friends. Here's a random example (no comparison AT ALL with Camilla but I don't know how I could explain it otherwise). Hitler had very loyal friends and many never betrayed him ; does this make him a good man ?

I think that was more a case of loyalty through fear of Hitler and then loyalty for fear of what the allies would do. Many of his so called friends supported him because they too were evil. Many of his acquaintances spoke out, some to defend, some to condemn. So I think your comparison, however vague, falls at the first hurdle.

The only friend who has spoken, was Jilly and that was with tacit approval and an agreement that she would be very careful in what she said, I understand.

I was originally going to put 'a good egg', but reasoned that the other poster was having enough trouble understanding my posts, without confusing her further, however I still think Camilla to be a good person, good mother and someone who always puts her husband and children first - both husbands!

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

Yep, you're right, sorry about that. But to me, no matter how loyal are your friends, it doesn't represent the person you are.

I on the other hand believe it does. Respect and loyalty are earned not just given.

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Call me nasty, if you like but I guess your former subordinates would prefer Camilla as a boss. Because she learned the hard way how to deal with human weaknesses.

Quite the contrary, my sub's respected hard workers and honorable behavior, it is/was our corporate culture, in fact I guess our country tends to lean toward this benchmark too. Queens Elizabeth, Beatrix, Sofia etc. seem to fit this description and they are all older.

As for calling you nasty, no..the comment amuses me.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Gaia

Quite the contrary, my sub's respected hard workers and honorable behavior, it is/was our corporate culture,

Really, from what we see of many businesses, honour does not come into it.

Even the various religions have problems with the concept of honour. It all depends on a personal view, after all, many women are killed each year in 'honour killings' and the people involved believe they acted to protect their code of honour. So as we can see, what is one persons idea of honour is not everyones idea of honour.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Gaia

Quite the contrary, my sub's respected hard workers and honorable behavior, it is/was our corporate culture,

Hm, IMHO an important part of honorable behaviour is the decency to check facts before passing judgment.

In this case we have so far no official statement confirming that Camilla dropped out of any of her scheduled events due to whatever reason. All we have are two papers claiming that she hasn't as many scheduled events as her husband, one even explaining that fact with the information that she needs more time for preparation than her husband.

Taking this information to pass judgment of Camilla's work ethic and to condem her seems indecent to me. Maybe you sub's respected your hard work, but I doubt they would have respected to be judged by you without your trying to seriously checking the circumstances before that judgment.

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Really, from what we see of many businesses, honour does not come into it.

Even the various religions have problems with the concept of honour. It all depends on a personal view, after all, many women are killed each year in 'honour killings' and the people involved believe they acted to protect their code of honour. So as we can see, what is one persons idea of honour is not everyones idea of honour.

I happened to have a wonderful experience during my career so I speak from my experience. If you are seeing the opposite in your experience.. how sad. As for honor, calling out religions that don't hold a woman to an equal standard is an odd extreme in trying to make your point, but I agree the DoC would have not been around today if she was in one these cultures.

My circle of friends, which at least one was born and raised in England, do not find DoC to be an exemplary model of hardworking nor sweet. She makes the US Wallis Simpson look like an amateur. This is my opinion, I understand that some of you don't agree and that is your right...I won't belittle you because I don't agree.

Taking this information to pass judgment of Camilla's work ethic and to condem her seems indecent to me. Maybe you sub's respected your hard work, but I doubt they would have respected to be judged by you without your trying to seriously checking the circumstances before that judgment.

Why are you making this personal, I don't agree with you about DoC. We don't agree about her character...the word condemn is so dramatic. As for my subs you are projecting....I had and still have consulting work based on my skills...I would love to put a plan together for the DoC:)

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Gaia

I happened to have a wonderful experience during my career so I speak from my experience. If you are seeing the opposite in your experience.. how sad. As for honor, calling out religions that don't hold a woman to an equal standard is an odd extreme in trying to make your point, but I agree the DoC would have not been around today if she was in one these cultures.

I am not part of the daily grind, so please, save your sarcasm. I would think the entire Western world has read about the lack of honour in any number of businesses, I was merely pointing out that your idea of honour might be different from others. I don't find it very honourable to judge someone on mis reading a couple of articles. Recently a Bishop has been forced to resign because he fell in love with another woman, some of his parishoners, acting in a to them, honourable way, forced this resignation. They believe they did an honourable thing even though I find it was neither an honourable nor christian thing. I don't understand your 'calling out' remark, so I won't judge you on that.

I did not mention religions regarding honour killings, I said many religions have a problem with honour and many women are killed each year because they were believed to dishonour their family. Two completely different examples of 'honour'.

My circle of friends, which at least one was born and raised in England, do not find DoC to be an exemplary model of hardworking nor sweet. She makes the US Wallis Simpson look like an amateur

Based on what, the same misread article? Does your one English friend know HRH personally to make this judgment, have you and she based your comparison on misread articles concerning Simpson as well as HRH or are you saying you are able to compare one with the other from personal knowledge?

I would love to put a plan together for the DoC:)

Lucky for us, she has professionals to advise her.

[MARG]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

far from the press not being interested in Camilla's side of the story, they would have paid many millions for it, goodness they have, I understand, offered thousands to any friend who will speak, without any success to date. That is the mark of a good woman who can gather such loyal friends.

You have a really good point there. Not only has she gathered loyal friends, but am I right in thinking that neither "the Butler" nor anyone else employed by her, has felt the need to feather their nest?

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Gaia

My circle of friends, which at least one was born and raised in England, do not find DoC to be an exemplary model of hardworking nor sweet. She makes the US Wallis Simpson look like an amateur.

Good Lord I should hope not! Wallis loved David but she was never lN LOVE with David, not like Camilla is with Charles.
I have a couple English clients here in Oregon as well and they have said what a conniving person Camilla is. I just don't see it. All I see is a prejudice that just because Camilla wasn't Hollywood beautiful like Diana, people don't like her. Since they label her a "rottweiler" they think her motives suspect and evil.
I like her character. I think she's a strong woman worthy of respect.