Charles and Camilla - The Early Years (1970s)

[Skydragon]

Men and women can be good friends even best friends without a sexual relationship. But I do agree that confiding your marriage problems to close friends of the opposite sex can lead to temptation. Emotional intimacy can lead to physical intimacy.

Mr S had better watch out then, I could earn an absolute fortune by revealing the confidences of HIS friends to me. Sometimes men and women need someone of the opposite sex to confide in. It's far easier to admit your wife finds you below muster in the bed department to a close female friend, than to admit that to your male friends. It is also easier to accept a friendship hug from an opposite sex friend, rather than a same sex friend for many people, even now. 30-40 odd years ago it was positively frowned upon.

I agree with you and I totally saw that Charles was not going to drop his circle of friends for any love interest, even a wife. But even though I don't think he saw his friends as a test for his new wife, in reality, I think his friends were a daunting test to any new wife of his. Unbeknownst to himself, Charles was setting up any serious love interest of his to get their acceptance and they were a tough crowd.

How many of us really thought, when introducing our shiny new partner to 'our' in crowd, whether or not they would fit in, we presume that our friends will see all the wonderful things we can see about him/her and that he/she will see what wonderful, loyal friends they have been.

 

[Duchess]

it's interesting that people say camilla was interested in the man and not the prince. i'm not saying that people who feel this way are wrong but even at the best of times charles and his handlers can't separate the two so how could camilla. he was born into this life so separating the two would be impossible. his sense of entitlement IS his personality because it's all he knows, people have given in to this his entire life. i don't think camilla separated the two in so much as she knew how to handle charles in a way that he was comfortable with.

 

[Skydragon]

it's interesting that people say camilla was interested in the man and not the prince. i'm not saying that people who feel this way are wrong but even at the best of times charles and his handlers can't separate the two so how could camilla. he was born into this life so separating the two would be impossible. his sense of entitlement IS his personality because it's all he knows, people have given in to this his entire life. i don't think camilla separated the two in so much as she knew how to handle charles in a way that he was comfortable with.

I think it is perfectly feasible. There are people in real life that you meet, you get on well with and then you invite them to your home. Some can't handle it and become obsequious, others take a breath and realise that they befriended you, the person. The former it is best to distance yourself from, the latter are rare and to be treasured.

That is why, as one of the people who has said Camilla loved the man, not the Prince, I stand by my remark.

 

[sthreats]

That is why, as one of the people who has said Camilla loved the man, not the Prince, I stand by my remark.

I agree that she loved the man but what doesn't make sense is this: Why would you get engaged in March to an ex with a known roving eye when you just said your goodbyes to your boyfriend at the beginning of Feb?Doesn't add up. My references are Dimbleby and Brandeth

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

I think it is perfectly feasible. There are people in real life that you meet, you get on well with and then you invite them to your home. Some can't handle it and become obsequious, others take a breath and realise that they befriended you, the person. The former it is best to distance yourself from, the latter are rare and to be treasured.

That is why, as one of the people who has said Camilla loved the man, not the Prince, I stand by my remark.

I agree more with Duchess. The man and the role go together. The role is part of his identity. It all overlaps too much to be distinguished. And Camilla probably loves all of Charles, not just a segment, so saying she loves Charles and not Prince Charles doesn't make much sense, imo.

 

[Skydragon]

I agree that she loved the man but what doesn't make sense is this: Why would you get engaged in March to an ex with a known roving eye when you just said your goodbyes to your boyfriend at the beginning of Feb?Doesn't add up. My references are Dimbleby and Brandeth

Yes, that is a puzzle, a rebound perhaps? It all seemed a tad hasty.

The man and the role go together. The role is part of his identity. It all overlaps too much to be distinguished. And Camilla probably loves all of Charles, not just a segment, so saying she loves Charles and not Prince Charles doesn't make much sense, imo

I think you may have misunderstood. Camilla loves all of Charles, that is probably true but what I was saying is the she didn't 'love' the title and all that came with that. Many people perhaps can't separate the two, that is what made Camilla and many of Charles' friends unique.

Put it like this, If someone happens to be a mortician, to some they couldn't entertain a friendship or relationship with them, but to others it wouldn't make any difference, because they 'see' the man/woman, not the job.

 

[Monika_]

While I don't dispute that Camilla loved/loves Charles--not at all--let's not suggest that she had to look past all the extras to 'see' the man. He's hardly a mortician. Lol!!

 

[Monika_]

sthreats....

I agree that she loved the man but what doesn't make sense is this: Why would you get engaged in March to an ex with a known roving eye when you just said your goodbyes to your boyfriend at the beginning of Feb?Doesn't add up. My references are Dimbleby and Brandeth

Camilla could not have married Charles back then. She did not pass the future Queen test. She had a 'past', etc. She ended up doing what many others have done...she went after the next best match available to her. Yes, it was quick, but it was also an acknowledgment on her part of the reality of the situation.

 

[Monika_]

Duchess...

it's interesting that people say camilla was interested in the man and not the prince. i'm not saying that people who feel this way are wrong but even at the best of times charles and his handlers can't separate the two so how could camilla. he was born into this life so separating the two would be impossible. his sense of entitlement IS his personality because it's all he knows, people have given in to this his entire life. i don't think camilla separated the two in so much as she knew how to handle charles in a way that he was comfortable with.

In a word...YES!

 

[Skydragon]

He's hardly a mortician. Lol!!

I was trying to explain in a 'simplified way', unfortunately, even now, it is possible you have misunderstood.

 

[MARG]

Thanks for the feedback on the marriage blessings.

The reason I raised that question is because when I watched the live coverage on television, several of the journalists who were covering the ceremony said that Charles and Camilla were basically 'forced' to do this in an attempt to appease all the people for whom this was not seen as a welcome match.

I suppose we can debate that for a long time to come, but the fact is that the words could not have been more appropriate. Just my opinion, of course.

I'm confused. What could we debate for a long time to come?

 

[Elspeth]

Probably the real reason for the inclusion of the prayer in the marriage service. Not that that's relevant to the thread topic, or anything...

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Yes, that is a puzzle, a rebound perhaps? It all seemed a tad hasty. I think you may have misunderstood. Camilla loves all of Charles, that is probably true but what I was saying is the she didn't 'love' the title and all that came with that. Many people perhaps can't separate the two, that is what made Camilla and many of Charles' friends unique.

Put it like this, If someone happens to be a mortician, to some they couldn't entertain a friendship or relationship with them, but to others it wouldn't make any difference, because they 'see' the man/woman, not the job.

I see what you mean, or I think I do. But on the other hand, a mortician has a job that he/she goes to, and then leaves at a certain part of the day, whereas Prince Charles is always Prince of Wales, always an HRH, always Heir to the Throne, 24/7, everyday of the week, even during holidays. He does not just "clock out" of this position, does he?

 

[Skydragon]

I see what you mean, or I think I do. But on the other hand, a mortician has a job that he/she goes to, and then leaves at a certain part of the day, whereas Prince Charles is always Prince of Wales, always an HRH, always Heir to the Throne, 24/7, everyday of the week, even during holidays. He does not just "clock out" of this position, does he?

True, but I couldn't think of another comparison at that moment! How about a peace activist and an army officer or a vegetarian and a beef farmer! None of whom clock out, so to speak.

 

[sthreats]

Camilla could not have married Charles back then. She did not pass the future Queen test. She had a 'past', etc. She ended up doing what many others have done...she went after the next best match available to her. Yes, it was quick, but it was also an acknowledgment on her part of the reality of the situation.

SORRY. I don't buy the she had a past story. The other women were more public and outed in the tabloids. No one in the public realm knew of Camilla and her boyfriend(s) didn't talk. From my reading and IMO, its seems that Camilla was not good enough for the POW. Her father was a war hero but had no title. Her grandmother may be illegitimate child. She did fit the ideal of a fairy princess.Maybe things were "a tad hasty" because she was told to get lost.

 

[Monika_]

SORRY. I don't buy the she had a past story....

Well, I wasn’t trying to sell it. It’s hardly a secret that she wasn’t considered a suitable candidate. And in all the years that this relationship has been written about, there has never been the slightest hint at ANYONE in the royal family being supportive of such a match.

I suspect even Camilla knew it or she wouldn’t have approached the man with the infamously classy reference to her great-grandmother being his great-great-grandfather's mistress “so how about it?"

 

[MARG]

. . . . I suspect even Camilla knew it or she wouldn’t have approached the man with the infamously classy reference to her great-grandmother being his great-great-grandfather's mistress “so how about it?"

Is there proof positive that she did it fact say that, or, is it just another urban legend?

 

[Duchess]

I agree more with Duchess. The man and the role go together. The role is part of his identity. It all overlaps too much to be distinguished. And Camilla probably loves all of Charles, not just a segment, so saying she loves Charles and not Prince Charles doesn't make much sense, imo.

well said CT.

 

[Skydragon]

Is there proof positive that she did it fact say that, or, is it just another urban legend?

It is probably just something made up, as Charles and Camilla were the only two involved in the conversation and we know they don't speak to the media!

 

[MARG]

I guessed as much. Honestly, there are nasty little "truths" about their first meeting, those that look for hidden (sinister) meanings in the Liturgy of Charles and Camilla's Wedding Blessing service, and then there are those that think that Charles the Prince is Charles the man. Go figure.

 

[Amelia]

Unlike all of you I know very little of the Charles/Camilla story but was she considered unsuitable simply because of the era that it was, that it was out of the question for the heir to marry someone that wasn't even from a titled family or was there actually one specific 'thing' that she had done that made her totally unacceptable?

 

[TheTruth]

Well she had a "past", sexually speaking (didn't find a more gracious way to say it, sorry) and she already had had various boyfriends. One of the criteria was that the Bride should be a virgin. It's probably no longer the case but I remember Diana was partly chosen because of that.

 

[ysbel]

I don't think Charles was looking for a bride in the early 70s when he met Camilla. He made a rather famous statement that he didn't want to get married before he was 30.

From the papers at that time, it seems he was expected to marry a woman from a titled family. His longest serious relationship before his marriage was with Lady Jane Wellesley who was the daughter of the Duke of Wellington. As far as titled peers go, you can't get much more prestigious than the Wellingtons who were descended from Napoleon's conqueror. From the reports at the time, Lady Jane turned Charles down although she loved Charles but because she didn't want to be saddled with the restrictions of marrying into the Royal Family. The women his age knew quite a bit about what they would be giving up to become Princess of Wales and I think that regardless of their affection for Charles, they didn't want the job. So I think they tried to get someone young enough who didn't know all that she was getting into so she wouldn't be scared off. I think their hope was that if they got someone from a sheltered past, she wouldn't mind the restrictions as much as a woman who had previously been independent and being young, she would be more easily trainable into the ways of the Royal Family.

But that I believe is the reasoning behind some of the members here saying that Camilla loved Charles the man and not the Prince. I think his title was a huge barrier for women who would have been otherwise eligible for the job. They simply didn't want all the baggage that came with marrying Charles and taking the title. I think Camilla is one of those women who don't particularly care for the title because of what it entails.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

True, but I couldn't think of another comparison at that moment! How about a peace activist and an army officer or a vegetarian and a beef farmer! None of whom clock out, so to speak.

Yes, military personnel are good example, also elected officials, ambassadors, especially heads of government or heads of state. In such a case, as with Charles, you marry the role as much as the person.

I happen to be re-reading Dimbleby at the moment and am having some new insights about this love story. I believe it was perfectly natural for Camilla to have her head turned by her old flame during the Prince's naval absence. She was a young woman, and Charles was not there, so she could not feel his influence as strongly as she might have done if he were there. And she could have no way of knowing what he might be like or how he might feel when he returned! So here was Andrew, so charming and so willing to have her and love her, etc. And he seemed to want all the same things: nice peaceful life in the country with kids and sheep and dogs, cows, horses, whatever! And Camilla probably had almost to no confidence in her prospects with Charles, I mean, she might have thought to herself, "Oh please, me, the Princess of Wales, that will be the day!"

 

[Skydragon]

Yes, military personnel are good example, also elected officials, ambassadors, especially heads of government or heads of state. In such a case, as with Charles, you marry the role as much as the person.

Hmmm, No, I married the men not the role. I did give it great consideration each time.

I believe it was perfectly natural for Camilla to have her head turned by her old flame during the Prince's naval absence. She was a young woman, and Charles was not there, so she could not feel his influence as strongly as she might have done if he were there. And she could have no way of knowing what he might be like or how he might feel when he returned! So here was Andrew, so charming and so willing to have her and love her, etc. And he seemed to want all the same things: nice peaceful life in the country with kids and sheep and dogs, cows, horses, whatever! And Camilla probably had almost to no confidence in her prospects with Charles, I mean, she might have thought to herself, "Oh please, me, the Princess of Wales, that will be the day!"

All possible and the latter, probably entirely true!

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

I don't think Charles was looking for a bride in the early 70s when he met Camilla.

Yeah, plus he probably lacked the confidence (in his relations with the 'fairer' sex) to think of marrying during the navy years. Besides, Mountbatten was happy to look for him, so Charles could focus on polo.
I do think if Mountbatten had lived, he might have prevailed in his wish to unite Amanda & Charles, because Charles was so eager to please everyone he loved, especially the Big M, and Amanda might have been won over in the end. She did like Charles a lot and that is a good place to start to work on other feelings.

 

[Elspeth]

Don't underestimate the Queen Mother. I don't think she'd have stood by quietly while Mountbatten inserted himself further into the royal family and really displaced her as the person Charles took advice from.

I wonder if she'd have supported Camilla as a possible bride if that was the only way to put Mountbatten's nose out of joint.

 

[scooter]

Dont know, Elspeth. But I do feel sure that if QEQM had been even the slightest bit welcoming of the Camilla match it would have had some traction.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I married my husband in spite of his role.

Hmmm, No, I married the men not the role. I did give it great consideration each time.All possible and the latter, probably entirely true!

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Don't underestimate the Queen Mother. I don't think she'd have stood by quietly while Mountbatten inserted himself further into the royal family and really displaced her as the person Charles took advice from.

I wonder if she'd have supported Camilla as a possible bride if that was the only way to put Mountbatten's nose out of joint.

Yeah, that's true. I know both QEQM and the Big M had tremendous influence over Charles. Still, I imagine the Big M was very accustomed to success, and if he had lived.... I think his persistent, determined nature might have been rewarded. But obviously, it's all conjecture. And I also think the Big M was likely to convince Charles, but ......... Amanda is another question. Even though she is said to have had a mild crush on him at age 15, she is also said to have rejected his proposal. So maybe she was less persuasive on the matter.