The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #141  
Old 06-22-2008, 12:58 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruth View Post
Yes, I also have some examples in my life. Although, the damaged caused to children can be terrible whether or not the parents are famous, I believe it's even more difficult to spare your kids when you're in the limelight.
Well Charles was able to do it and so were Joachim and Alexandra as far as I know. I don't think they are too exceptional.
__________________

__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 06-22-2008, 01:07 PM
TheTruth's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between the first and second floor of the Eiffel Tower, France
Posts: 2,682
Yes, I completely agree on that. But they have to face the tabloids and medias. I'm not defending anyone here at all. For example, when William got hurt at school and both parents went to the hospital, Charles was painted as the bad father who went on with his PoW obligations and didn't stay by his side. That's what I'm talking about.
__________________

__________________

Please, help find a cure for ALS

Because it matters...
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 06-22-2008, 01:19 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
I meant to actually post about C&C's early relationship, here.

Actually I am beginning to believe the marriage breakdown of APB and Camilla was very influential in what happened later. Tina Brown mentioned it and so did some others. The key was that APB was an incredible ladies man and its hard to APB as Camilla's consolation prize if she couldn't get Charles.

The most logical sequence to me is this:
  1. Charles and Camilla date, they may or may not fall in love but they remain friends nonetheless.
  2. Charles has to go to the Navy.
  3. Camilla who is still very good looking at this stage and known for liking a bit of fun starts dating the dashing and handsome APB.
  4. Camilla and APB finally marry.
  5. APB knows how to charm women off his feet and he does but his problem is that he charms too many even when he is married.
  6. Camilla, distraught, turns to her friends. One of her friends, fresh back from the Navy, is Charles.
  7. Charles has his own problems, one of which was that his favorite uncle, Louis Mountbatten was killed by an IRA bomb.
  8. Camilla because of her own problems stays friendly but is not emotionally available to Charles. Besides, Charles' pain is a different type of pain than hers.
  9. However, young Lady Diana, is emotionally available to him and she worships him.
  10. Charles, pushed and prodded by his family, marries Diana.
  11. Charles and Diana start having trouble. Charles turns to his friends for support. Camilla is one of his friends.
  12. This time Charles and Camilla share the same pain of a bad marriage. And they are able to comfort each other.
  13. At some point they realize they get better comfort and support from each other than they get from the people they married.
  14. Diana, distraught that Charles has turned away from her, starts looking for someone to comfort and support her. She finds temporary comfort and support from James Hewitt but that goes away. The only loyal companions she has are her friends from the press. At that point she decides to end it all for everybody.
  15. The War of the Wales begins.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 06-22-2008, 01:24 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruth View Post
Yes, I completely agree on that. But they have to face the tabloids and medias. I'm not defending anyone here at all. For example, when William got hurt at school and both parents went to the hospital, Charles was painted as the bad father who went on with his PoW obligations and didn't stay by his side. That's what I'm talking about.
OK, now I think understand you. Thanks for explaining. Yes, famous people don't have direct control over what the press say about them.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 06-22-2008, 01:26 PM
TheTruth's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between the first and second floor of the Eiffel Tower, France
Posts: 2,682
Pretty good summary. Looks quite simple when it's written but it sounded far less for them at that time.
__________________

Please, help find a cure for ALS

Because it matters...
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 06-22-2008, 05:13 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
SHORTENED POST - The most logical sequence to me is this:
  1. Charles and Camilla date, they may or may not fall in love but they remain friends nonetheless.
  2. Charles has to go to the Navy.
  3. Camilla who is still very good looking at this stage and known for liking a bit of fun starts dating the dashing and handsome APB.
  4. Camilla and APB finally marry.
  5. APB knows how to charm women off his feet and he does but his problem is that he charms too many even when he is married.
  6. Camilla, distraught, turns to her friends. One of her friends, fresh back from the Navy, is Charles.
  7. Charles has his own problems, one of which was that his favorite uncle, Louis Mountbatten was killed by an IRA bomb.
  8. Camilla because of her own problems stays friendly but is not emotionally available to Charles. Besides, Charles' pain is a different type of pain than hers.
  9. However, young Lady Diana, is emotionally available to him and she worships him.
  10. Charles, pushed and prodded by his family, marries Diana.
  11. Charles and Diana start having trouble. Charles turns to his friends for support. Camilla is one of his friends.
  12. This time Charles and Camilla share the same pain of a bad marriage. And they are able to comfort each other.
  13. At some point they realize they get better comfort and support from each other than they get from the people they married.
  14. Diana, distraught that Charles has turned away from her, starts looking for someone to comfort and support her. She finds temporary comfort and support from James Hewitt but that goes away. The only loyal companions she has are her friends from the press. At that point she decides to end it all for everybody.
  15. The War of the Wales begins.
Beautifully put!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 07-05-2008, 08:04 AM
Monika_'s Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 190
Agatha...

Your grandmother is correct. She was never considered wife material because of her 'past.' Of course, the version we read about today is that Charles 'missed the boat' and she married APB.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 07-05-2008, 08:10 AM
Monika_'s Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 190
Well, I think there's something missing between numbers 10 and 11. That being Camilla's presence in the marriage from day one. How would any of us feel if a picture of a husband's 'former' girlfriend came along on our honeymoon? Hmmm...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 07-05-2008, 08:11 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
She was never considered wife material because of her 'past.' .
That is the whole point, by whom?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
Well, I think there's something missing between numbers 10 and 11. That being Camilla's presence in the marriage from day one. How would any of us feel if a picture of a husband's 'former' girlfriend came along on our honeymoon? Hmmm...
Camilla's presence from day one is only according to Diana. Even the story of the cufflinks was distorted, the C&C did not stand for Charles & Camilla.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 07-05-2008, 08:41 AM
Monika_'s Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 190
From what I've read, Lord Mountbatten encouraged Charles to have fun, but pick a good one for keeps. Camilla fell into the fun category. Also, just think about it from a common sense point of view... Do you recall when Charles and Diana got engaged, and all the fuss made over her 'eligibility,' etc? THAT was in 1981...now imagine how Camilla would have done in the early 70's. Sorry, don't think so.

As for the bracelet, personally, I don't care what the initials stand for or what they are, the point is most women would not take kindly to our husband to be giving a 'former' GF a gift of jewelry. Jewelry is a very personal gift, especially under these circumstances (if it had initials, etc). That says something...

Oops, and one more point. If Camilla didn't intend to maintain a presence in Charles' life, why was she so keen to befriend Diana, ask her whether she planned to hunt, etc. Hmmm... Sorry, she knew what she was doing all along.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #151  
Old 07-05-2008, 09:44 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
From what I've read, Lord Mountbatten encouraged Charles to have fun, but pick a good one for keeps. Camilla fell into the fun category. Also, just think about it from a common sense point of view... Do you recall when Charles and Diana got engaged, and all the fuss made over her 'eligibility,' etc? THAT was in 1981...now imagine how Camilla would have done in the early 70's. Sorry, don't think so.
I remember the press making a fuss about Diana apparently being a virgin and Mountbatten didn't suggest Charles pick 'a good one for keeps', at least that is unlike any of the quotes I have read. Even if he had, he slipped up with Diana! The point was, it was 'other's with their own agenda, whom did not feel Camilla was suitable and time showed them to be complete idiots.
Quote:
As for the bracelet, personally, I don't care what the initials stand for or what they are, the point is most women would not take kindly to our husband to be giving a 'former' GF a gift of jewelry. Jewelry is a very personal gift, especially under these circumstances (if it had initials, etc). That says something...
If jewellery is a 'very personal gift', then there are many men and women in trouble, especially my husband and I. One exchange of gifts from and to a former male friend reads - To my Darling ------ with all my love. XXX. (on the presentation card). The watch I gave is engraved with 'To my Darling ----, I am always here to ........
Jewellery, is not considered to be personal, IMO, it is the sort of thing you give for however many years service, an 18th birthday, someone leaving, all normally engraved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
Oops, and one more point. If Camilla didn't intend to maintain a presence in Charles' life, why was she so keen to befriend Diana, ask her whether she planned to hunt, etc. Hmmm... Sorry, she knew what she was doing all along.
Probably because Charles asked all his old friends to befriend Diana and welcome her into the fold. Of course she was asked by many of his friends if she intended to hunt with them, she had afterall given Charles the impression that she was into the country scene.

However, I think we are both straying far from the remit of this thread, which is of course Charles and Camilla's Love Story, the Early Days, which means long before Diana came onto the scene.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 07-05-2008, 11:21 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I Probably because Charles asked all his old friends to befriend Diana and welcome her into the fold. Of course she was asked by many of his friends if she intended to hunt with them, she had afterall given Charles the impression that she was into the country scene.
Yes, I can believe that. Charles was known in the 70s for having former girlfriends as friends after a breakup . He's still friends with former girlfriends today.

As I mentioned earlier, that tendancy of Charles was going to be problematic because when things go wrong, one usually confides in friends and if they are former girlfriends, then there is always a risk of the friend turning into something more. In the case of C&C, both of their marriages went sour so the temptation was high on both ends.

I personally take with a hefty grain of salt anything written about it after 1989. I think too many authors (and Charles, Camilla, and Diana) had a hefty motive of creative re-writing of history. I found one later statement by Diana about the engagement to be wrong and I imagine that with the motive of trying to explain what happened, there are many more creative re-writings, not only by Diana. Another creative re-writing, I believe, was that Camilla was always the love of Charles' life.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 07-05-2008, 11:39 AM
Monika_'s Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 190
Skydragon...I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

Lord Mountbatten's advice on the subject has been well documented and I never implied that my words were a direct quote.

As for jewelry, the meaning depends on the context of the exchange, so it can be very personal indeed.

As for the fold, well Camilla had no business being in it after Charles got engaged. If Charles didn't make that clear, Camilla should have had the class and discretion to back off.

Sorry, but that's how I feel and, as I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 07-05-2008, 11:47 AM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,897
The actual quote from Mountbatten is documented in this post:

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...tml#post778495
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 07-05-2008, 11:56 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Another creative re-writing, I believe, was that Camilla was always the love of Charles' life.
I agree with almost all of your post. It is not only Charles who did/does maintain friendships with old girlfriends and I see nothing wrong with it. But then I would say that as most of our set dated each other at one time or another! I think Charles experienced a particularly intense type of puppy love and knowing that permission and acceptance from his elders was required, tried to satisy everyone but himself.

I am an old romantic, I believe that everyone was measured against the fun loving, capable, intriguing, self confident Camilla and everyone failed to live up tothe standard that had been set. I think they maintained a friendship that was misunderstood by someone who never formed lasting friendships herself. Unless someone has had experience of long lasting deep friendships, it is hard to appreciate the bond that will always exist between such friends.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 07-05-2008, 12:00 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
SAs for the fold, well Camilla had no business being in it after Charles got engaged. If Charles didn't make that clear, Camilla should have had the class and discretion to back off.
I don't think it would be a good start to any marriage for one or other of the partners to ban the others friends. Camilla wasn't the only 'friend' Diana objected to.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 07-05-2008, 12:11 PM
Monika_'s Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 190
Sorry, but it's too convenient to categorize Camilla as his 'friend.' She had a strong hold on him and she knew it. As for other friends Diana may have objected to, Camilla has been reported to do the same thing. BOth have been reported to object to hangers-on. Recently it's been reported that a close female aide of Charles is leaving because of tension between her and Camilla.

When two people marry, there's a natural settling process where friends are concerned...some stay in the fold and some go. A true friend knows their place and a female friend does not offer another woman's husband a shoulder to cry on. Camilla had her own husband and children to worry about.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 07-05-2008, 12:26 PM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,281
A reminder that this thread is about Charles and Camilla "the early days". It is not about Diana and Camilla. We have a whole Diana subforum where Diana's history can be discussed.

thanks.

Warren
British Forums moderator
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 07-05-2008, 12:33 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
Sorry, but it's too convenient to categorize Camilla as his 'friend.' She had a strong hold on him and she knew it. As for other friends Diana may have objected to, Camilla has been reported to do the same thing. BOth have been reported to object to hangers-on. Recently it's been reported that a close female aide of Charles is leaving because of tension between her and Camilla.
If you read the articles about the departure of Elizabeth in any paper but the Mail, you will be able to find out the actual reason that she has decided to leave, which has more to do with looking after her elderly mother than 'tensions'. You say both have been reported to object to hangers on, but I seem to have missed all of these stories. Charles still has a multitude of female friends and employees, non of which he has been told to stay away from, IMO. Just as well Camilla remained as one of his friends, considering how things turned out. The very thought of a wife deciding who her husband can be friends with is disgraceful, IMO, and the marriage would be doomed to failure.
Quote:
When two people marry, there's a natural settling process where friends are concerned...some stay in the fold and some go. A true friend knows their place and a female friend does not offer another woman's husband a shoulder to cry on. Camilla had her own husband and children to worry about.
Yes, a true friend befriends the new wife, asks her if she is going to participate in events they all enjoy. I don't know about 'knows her place', that would be a strange unequal friendship. My married friends, male and female can cry on my shoulder any time because that is part and parcel of being a friend!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 07-05-2008, 12:34 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
A reminder that this thread is about Charles and Camilla "the early days". It is not about Diana and Camilla. We have a whole Diana subforum where Diana's history can be discussed.

thanks.

Warren
British Forums moderator
Sorry Warren, please delete me if you need. It took ages for my post to load, which I started writing before your warning.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
camilla, duchess of cornwall, prince charles, prince of wales, relationships


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
love story crownprincessrhey Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko 5 10-16-2009 10:42 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta cristina infanta elena infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg ottoman pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince laurent prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess eleonore princess elisabeth princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia spain state visit visit wedding william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:29 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]