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  #361  
Old 04-26-2012, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
Then how do you explain his string of involvements with non-titled woman vetted as possible Queens - like Davina Sheffield? Who I think I focus on because it was the first moment I really thought he was going to marry - that she was it. Imagine if she had been the one? She seemed a modest sort - not flashy. Too bad it didn't work out.
They still came from the aristocracy and not the lower levels. Look at their father's as you have listed them
The Duke of Wellington (and Jane is still unmarried)
Santa Cruz was never a serious contender - wrong religion
Davina Sheffield's father was LORD McGowan - so a titled family
The others weren't serious contenders really.

In all seriousness the only ones who really were serious contenders were the Spencer girls, Lady Jane Wellesley and maybe at a stretch Davina Sheffield. The rest were flirtations - like Camilla at the time - good enough to have some fun with but the serious wifely one had to come from the right level of society. Camilla, I think realised that and never seriously considered herself a potential wife for Charles in the early 70s - sadly as it turns out but as a result William has been able to marry Kate, from an even lower class (and I hate that word but it is the only one that applied) than Camilla was in the 1970s.

Charles was a flirt in the 70s and had a string of girlfriends but the only ones seriously considered suitable to be his bride came from the limited upper echelons of society.
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  #362  
Old 04-26-2012, 03:33 AM
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All the might-have-beens and if only's: if only the IRA bombing had not succeeded probably is the first one, then surely we would have seen a Princess Jane, not so, or Princess Amanda? Or had Charles not felt so disoriented by the press' frenzy and had waited - would the times have allowed him to continue being unwed? The press at that time was so crazy.

Still, the more I look at it the less it seems like he was holding a torch for Camilla during all that wining and dining and being out-and-about - he was, after all, doing Royal Duties then, a full schedule, right? Good friends - sure - a couple whose house he could relax at - but anything else just doesn't make sense given all the options he was playing with. Love of the kind that makes for marriage (with Camilla) didn't become evident until a whole lot later, in my estimation.
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  #363  
Old 04-26-2012, 07:52 AM
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I think that what happened was that he was in love with Camilla but they both believed that the class difference made it impossible so she went for APB, with whom she knew she could be happy while Charles spent the 70s looking for 'the one' within the right class.

As Camilla's marriage was a bit more open she was able to be friends with Charles.

Charles was 'settling' for second best when he did marry as his true love was elsewhere both believing that she wasn't high enough born to be his wife.
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  #364  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Charles was 'settling' for second best when he did marry as his true love was elsewhere both believing that she wasn't high enough born to be his wife.
During the 70s, I really don't think Charles really had any idea of what he was looking for. We have to remember too that dating for a royal prince at that time was quite different than perhaps how couples dated in my circle of friends at that time. First, being in the active military and then taking on royal duties, his schedule was pretty much planned out for him and he couldn't just pop on over to see his girlfriend. Andrew and Camilla Parker-Bowles were part of his intimate circle of friends and most likely attended the same things and house parties and hunt events and this kept Charles and Camilla as close friends.

I've read it several places that Charles really trusted and valued Camilla as a confidant and I've always wondered if perhaps he started to turn to Camilla more and more about his affairs of the heart after the assassination of Louis Mountbatten in '79. Perhaps Charles really did think that Amanda Knatchbull was the perfect match for him and I'd not be surprised that if the assassination plot had never been, they might have married. Amanda though did refuse his proposal and without his Uncle Dickie, once again Charles was feeling lost. If he had turned to Camilla at this time as an advisor, it would make sense of the reports of how Camilla also tried to befriend the young Diana.

Was Camilla his true love from the start? We'll never really know but personally I think their love is something that has grown and changed over decades rooted in deep friendship and compatibility.
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  #365  
Old 05-15-2016, 04:53 AM
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After reading through this thread and all the theories about the depth of C&C's love in the early 70's, I'm left with the question of "what if?" much like when I read about Margaret & Townsend. Margaret's choice not to marry Townsend really only affected herself. Though I suppose you could argue her divorce from AAJ, improved HM's opinion of divorced people. HM was more inclusive to Earl Harewood and others, afterward.

But if Charles had declared his love to Camilla at the end of '72 and asked her to wait for him, and they got engaged and married when he returned from Australia, I think there would have been a much greater impact on the BRF. With a single APB, who was finally free from his on-off love saga with Camilla, would Anne have really married Mark? She didn't get serious with him until after APB announced his engagement. Might she have married APB? He certainly seems to be her first love and to date they are still good friends. I don't think his Catholicism would have bothered Anne too much. In the 70's she was much more interested in 3-day Eventing than in royal duties, and she had 3 brothers before her in-line. Also QEQM was a big fan of the Parker-Bowles family. I doubt his wandering eye would have been a deal breaker as MP was just as notorious as APB. Or maybe she would have gotten back with APB, dated him for a while and then she would have moved on to a unknown new man and married him.

Similarly, without Diana in the picture to act as cupid for Andrew and Sarah, who would he have married? Would he have found his way to Sarah irregardless? Or would he likely met and married someone else? If he had a successful marriage with less controversy surrounding him, he might be a lot more popular today.

It's just crazy to think about what a domino effect young Charles and Camilla had on the BRF. The BRF might not have become celebritfied. Camilla has an earthy charm to her, but I doubt the tabloids would/could have whipped the public into such a frenzy. Charles wouldn't have nutters saying he should surrender the Crown because he was one-half of a bad marriage. And maybe none of HM's kids would have been divorced. Young Charles and Camilla were quite a catalyst in a lot of ways.
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  #366  
Old 05-15-2016, 07:43 AM
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Sorry ,miss whirley, but you are trying to blame three divorces on Camilla but it is not going to work.

1. In 1974 Charles said he was too young to get married.
In 1973 he would not have married Camilla because he was too young.
Charles also said he did not planned to get married until after the age of 30.
(This might have been a separate interview.)
2. Camilla is older than Charles and Camilla would not have waited around until 1978/1979 to get married. Most women of her generation married before the age of 25.
3. Princess Anne never dated Andrew Parker Bowles.
APB accompanied her to events but Princess Anne was actually dating and in love with Mark Philips since 1968. The media were aware of their relationship but Anne kept denying it. IIRC Anne & Mark's relationship and dating history was featured in one of the articles leading up to the wedding, IIRC the article was in the London Times.
4. The Spencers wanted Sarah to marry Charles and Diana to marry Andrew.
There is a reason why John Spencer moved into Park House and became a tenant of the Queen.
There is a reason why the Roches moved out and the Spencers moved in.
Diana told her classmates she was going to marry Andrew.
When she was about 13 she switched her attention from Andrew to Charles.
Diana turned 13 in 1974 the same year Charles said he was too young to marry.
Diana would have married Andrew, if Charles did not become available.
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  #367  
Old 05-15-2016, 08:15 AM
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I'm hardly blaming Camilla for three divorces. That would be like me blaming Townsend for all Margaret and Armstrong-Jones' love woes. Nonsense. I'm just saying there was a domino effect that included a broad reach.

1. Charles said he was too young to marry after he lost Camilla. Not surprising he was in no hurry at that point.

2. I don't think she would have had to wait that long. After losing Townsend, Margaret waited until she was almost 30 to marry. That doesn't mean if she stayed with Townsend she would have said, "Sorry, Darling, I can't marry you until 1960, when I'm in my 30th year."

3. You are one of the few to hold that opinion. I go with the widely accepted timeline.

4. Who cares what the Spencers wanted. I'm sure plenty of other well bred/connected families wanted the same. Dickie wanted Amanda, and that didn't happen, and he had a lot more influence over the BRF than Diana's family. I don't think Andrew would have married Diana. I vaguely remember some quote attributed to him, I'm paraphrasing, but it said he liked Diana as a person but he preferred women who were more laid back and could laugh at themselves.
Andrew can be a bit oafish and likes to crack jokes, I think someone insecure like Diana, who also has a bit of a temper, might take his jokes too seriously and lash out if she thinks he's mocking her. It would have been a bad match. Besides Andrew seems to have a preference for redheads and brunettes.
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  #368  
Old 05-15-2016, 08:30 AM
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I agree. I don't think Diana and Andrew would have married. Andrew was far too boisterous in temperament for Diana and she was too sensitive for him. I don't think either thought of each other in a romantic way.

I believe that while Camilla was fond of Charles in the 1970's Andrew PB was the love of Camilla's life at that time. He was exciting and a challenge to her, I think.
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  #369  
Old 05-15-2016, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
It's just crazy to think about what a domino effect young Charles and Camilla had on the BRF. The BRF might not have become celebritfied. Camilla has an earthy charm to her, but I doubt the tabloids would/could have whipped the public into such a frenzy. Charles wouldn't have nutters saying he should surrender the Crown because he was one-half of a bad marriage. And maybe none of HM's kids would have been divorced. Young Charles and Camilla were quite a catalyst in a lot of ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
I'm hardly blaming Camilla for three divorces. That would be like me blaming Townsend for all Margaret and Armstrong-Jones' love woes. Nonsense. I'm just saying there was a domino effect that included a broad reach.
So what exactly does your highlighted comments mean.
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  #370  
Old 05-15-2016, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
So what exactly does your highlighted comments mean.
It means exactly what I said. A domino effect is like a ripple effect.

Do you think Camilla would have set-up Sarah with Andrew? She either would have set him up with someone else, or she would have left him to his own devices. Thus an early marriage between C&C would have had a ripple effect on Andrew's love life. I'm not sure why you think that's me being critical. Andrew might have fallen madly in love with some other woman and still be married in this Alternative Universe. Or he might have divorced any woman he married. We don't know because the domino effect never happened. That's why I said maybe none of HM's kids would have divorced in this scenario.
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  #371  
Old 05-15-2016, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
It means exactly what I said. A domino effect is like a ripple effect.

Do you think Camilla would have set-up Sarah with Andrew? She either would have set him up with someone else, or she would have left him to his own devices. Thus an early marriage between C&C would have had a ripple effect on Andrew's love life. I'm not sure why you think that's me being critical. Andrew might have fallen madly in love with some other woman and still be married in this Alternative Universe. Or he might have divorced any woman he married. We don't know because the domino effect never happened. That's why I said maybe none of HM's kids would have divorced in this scenario.
You are trying to blame C&C.

Diana and her family chased Charles.
Diana set up Sarah.

The domino effect came with Diana.

So this should be moved to Diana's thread as it has nothing to do with C&C early year but a thinly veiled disguise to blame C&C for three marriages.

Diana was responsible for Sarah but your post tries to blame C&C.
Diana was responsible for marrying Charles and she is responsible for her own action.

Anne and Mark are responsible for their action not APB and not Camilla.

This has nothing to do with C&C early years, just a poor attempt at creating another thread to trash C&C.
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  #372  
Old 05-15-2016, 09:33 AM
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Good Grief. I'm not blaming anyone.

I'm surprised your not accusing me of loathing William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Peter, Zara, Tom, Laura, and their children. Because none of them would have been born in this Alternative Universe.

Also, if Charles married Camilla after Australia, Diana would have never been introduced to the picture, so why would we talk about this in Diana's thread? Now if I wanted to discuss who Diana might have married in a world without Charles, then I would take it to a Diana thread. But I'm not interested in a non-BRF Lady Diana Spencer.
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  #373  
Old 05-15-2016, 10:54 AM
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We are now going way off topic and into the realms of speculative theorising (and sniping with one another) as to who was responsible for this or that and making statements based on our own preferences as if they are fact. Can we please try to discuss the correct topic in the correct thread. Thank you
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  #374  
Old 05-15-2016, 06:03 PM
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In looking back to the 70s when Charles and Camilla first met, most seem to focus on a romantic, grand passionate love affair, man/woman sexual type relationship. To me, much more happened at another level which actually, IMO, is much more important and played a major role in both C&C's lives to this day.

It was the 70s and Charles and Camilla quickly formed a friendship that would last and survive over the decades. Perhaps they had a romantic love affair but through it all, one thing remained. A very deep, intimate bond between two people we call best friends. She understood him and he understood her. There was a deep level of trust and support for each other and they knew they could always count on the other to be there for them no matter what. Its the kind of friendship that survives one marrying someone else and still remaining best friends even to the point of asking Charles to be godfather to their first born son and the kids growing up knowing "Sir" was coming to visit and using the "Sir" as an affectionate term like "Uncle" or any other nickname.

Perhaps it is this kind friendship that has stood the test of time through the good, the bad and the ugly that cements their marriage now and makes it work so well.
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  #375  
Old 05-18-2016, 12:54 AM
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I think that Charles was more in love with Cam back in the 70s than she was with him. I think she enjoyed her freedom too much ot want to marry into the RF and she loved "Bad Boy" Andrew. I think that after her marriage, perhaps quite soon, she got disillusioned with Andrew's womanising and got fed up with his STILL sleeping around and being away a lot, most likely... so she turned to Charles and yes I think they always WERE Good friends and she loved him as a friend and was happy to spend time iwht him.. and when her children were born they had another affair.
I think that she IS a loyal friend and now that she and And are divorced, they are still good friends..
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  #376  
Old 05-18-2016, 04:11 AM
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Posts discussing the sexual pasts of members of the Royal Family have either been edited or deleted.
A reminder that one of our rules states that members will refrain from posting "any content deemed by us to be obscene, sexually explicit, vulgar, threatening, harassing, or abusive"
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