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  #341  
Old 08-11-2011, 01:39 PM
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  #342  
Old 04-16-2012, 12:57 AM
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Davina Sheffield was a stunning beauty! See here: http://tinyurl.com/79csf6d

I recall her name being spoken and the feeling of imminence regarding her being wife to Charles - but I have to agree with others - I have no memory of Camilla ever being talked about in the 1970's in any way, certainly not as 'unsuitable'. Friends and 'playmates' though Charles and Camilla may have been when young and single, it seems obvious that Camilla was focused elsewhere, 'in love' elsewhere - with Andrew Parker-Bowles - and Charles for sure had subsequent 'loves' to Camilla.
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  #343  
Old 04-16-2012, 04:42 AM
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I guess we will only - if ever - find out the truth about the relationship of the Early Years when Charles and Camilla authorize a biography of their life and allow the author to write about these years.
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  #344  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:55 AM
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Well! I will be first in line to read such a biography! IF That ever happens, one can only hope.......
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  #345  
Old 04-16-2012, 06:38 AM
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Two chances while either of them are alive I suspect - none and Buckleys
(an Australian expression to mean 'no chance' at all.)
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  #346  
Old 04-16-2012, 02:58 PM
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While it would be very interesting to read about their relationship in its' early stages, I too doubt that we'll ever get a biography with such details. Camila and Charles strike me as very private people, and won't want to share something so personal with the general public.
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  #347  
Old 04-16-2012, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
Davina Sheffield was a stunning beauty! See here: http://tinyurl.com/79csf6d

I recall her name being spoken and the feeling of imminence regarding her being wife to Charles - but I have to agree with others - I have no memory of Camilla ever being talked about in the 1970's in any way, certainly not as 'unsuitable'. Friends and 'playmates' though Charles and Camilla may have been when young and single, it seems obvious that Camilla was focused elsewhere, 'in love' elsewhere - with Andrew Parker-Bowles - and Charles for sure had subsequent 'loves' to Camilla.
If Camilla was 'in love' with APB all along it would seem to have been rather cruel of her to lead on Prince Charles for a full 6 months (between June 1972 and December 1972) and then not even bother to right to him to tell him that she had got engaged to APB in spring 1973. None of which seems like the behaviour of the Camilla we know now.
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  #348  
Old 04-16-2012, 06:42 PM
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If Camilla was 'in love' with APB all along it would seem to have been rather cruel of her to lead on Prince Charles for a full 6 months (between June 1972 and December 1972) and then not even bother to right to him to tell him that she had got engaged to APB in spring 1973. None of which seems like the behaviour of the Camilla we know now.
In the summer of 1972, when Charles and Camilla, started seeing each other. Andrew Parker Bowles had broken up with Camilla, he was very popular with the ladies and had many relationships, it seems he didn't want to be tied down. Camilla would have thought it was over between them, Charles then went to sea and by the end of the year, ABP restarted his relationship with Camilla. But he was notoriously unfaithful, going back as early as his engagement period.
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  #349  
Old 04-22-2012, 02:15 PM
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If Camilla was 'in love' with APB all along it would seem to have been rather cruel of her to lead on Prince Charles for a full 6 months (between June 1972 and December 1972) and then not even bother to write to him to tell him that she had got engaged to APB in spring 1973. None of which seems like the behaviour of the Camilla we know now.
But she did write to him the way I understand it - its why Charles wrote his uncle about Camilla's impending marriage.

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In the summer of 1972, when Charles and Camilla, started seeing each other, Andrew Parker Bowles had broken up with Camilla. He was very popular with the ladies and had many relationships and it seems he didn't want to be tied down. Camilla would have thought it was over between them. Charles then went to sea and by the end of the year, ABP restarted his relationship with Camilla. But he was notoriously unfaithful, going back as early as his engagement period.
What was going on was far from 'true love' (between Charles and Camilla) imo just the usual between young people testing out all the possibilities. I'd suggest it's the same sort of thing going on with Prince Harry and his circle of friends, pairing up and un-pairing.
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  #350  
Old 04-22-2012, 03:13 PM
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But she did write to him the way I understand it - its why Charles wrote his uncle about Camilla's impending marriage.



What was going on was far from 'true love' (between Charles and Camilla) imo just the usual between young people testing out all the possibilities. I'd suggest it's the same sort of thing going on with Prince Harry and his circle of friends, pairing up and un-pairing.
Tyger - can you please state which letter to Mountbatten about Camilla's impending marraige you are talking about? It is not mentioned in Dimbleby's biography. He mentions a letter to a confidential correspondent to whom he states that he feels he has no reason to return to England. As all letters between Charles and Mountbatten are identified in Dimbleby's footnotes this 'confidential correspondent' can't be Mountbatten and to judge by the genera comments in the rest of the letter it was obviously someone who knew Camilla and was probably IMO Lucia de Sta Cruz the mutual friend of Charles and Camilla who introiduced the couple to each other in the summer of 1972. If Charles was only trying out love why was he so distraught when he found out about Camilla's engagement?
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  #351  
Old 04-22-2012, 03:28 PM
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Tyger - can you please state which letter to Mountbatten about Camilla's impending marraige you are talking about? It is not mentioned in Dimbleby's biography. He mentions a letter to a confidential correspondent to whom he states that he feels he has no reason to return to England. As all letters between Charles and Mountbatten are identified in Dimbleby's footnotes this 'confidential correspondent' can't be Mountbatten and to judge by the genera comments in the rest of the letter it was obviously someone who knew Camilla and was probably IMO Lucia de Sta Cruz the mutual friend of Charles and Camilla who introiduced the couple to each other in the summer of 1972. If Charles was only trying out love why was he so distraught when he found out about Camilla's engagement?
I don't think one can 'try out love' - he may have been trying out lust, that I'll agree to, which for a man is more significant the first time (though I don't think we know if Camilla was his first - I doubt she was).

You got me there. You have the better info. I thought the letter was to his uncle. Perhaps not - as you say. Pure conjecture, but if it was to the mutual woman friend it might have been Charles' stealth way of trying to get the word to Camilla that he was still interested. Clearly it didn't work - Camilla married elsewhere.

I don't think he was 'so distraught' - what makes you think he was? With news of her marriage he knew he couldn't just take up with her as though the marriage never was - flying in the face of the claim that he did - so he was confronting the fact that he didn't have a girlfriend to come back to for some R&R. Makes sense - but not significant above all else. At least that's the way I see it.

I just don't accept the premise that it's been a life-long affair - and that it hung over Charles' first marriage - so I don't see the initial years with that overlay. I think they meshed at once. It's possible that Charles was more 'taken' with Camilla than she was with Charles. After all, if she was pining for Andrew Parker-Bowles, it wasn't a level playing field for Charles.
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  #352  
Old 04-22-2012, 07:28 PM
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in a way, it has been a lifelong relationship (obviously, with two breaks). I think Charles loved and NEEDED Camilla more than she needed him. he took everything more seriously than she did
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  #353  
Old 04-22-2012, 08:43 PM
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It has been a "lifelong" affair. He did understand that she wasn't "good enough". She moved on, briefly, because she knew her position. She is very savy. And he did follow his guidelines. He cheated himself and his former wife, because of his love for Camilla. She, only, became non-negotiable, when he was older and knew the cards he held and he had heirs from the "better" choice. On the other hand, they will be together for eternity, now.
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  #354  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:30 PM
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On the other hand, they will be together for eternity, now.
I won't try to debate your opinion - you clearly are convinced on how you see it. How you have this insight into Charles - outside of what Charles' first wife claimed - only you know.

However, on one fact I will disagree - its not for eternity (like the Mormons - in their marriage vows they declare 'for time and all eternity'). For most of us it's 'until death us do part'. The cards are re-shuffled in the afterlife. We are free - to go our way freely - with all our connections from life (or not) in a new way.
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  #355  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:42 PM
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I have often wondered whether it was in fact Camilla who felt that she wasn't good enough for Charles with not having a title etc. She came from that bit lower down the social scale and may have felt that the heir to the throne was out of her reach as a husband, lover - yes, husband - no, so set her own sights lower and went with Andrew.

I suppose I am saying that Charles and Camilla were the generation between having to marry within a certain limited class - the aristocracy or other royalty - if you are the future monarch to being able to marry solely for love.

The Queen was lucky in that she found 'the love of her life' within the right class but Edward VIII wasn't so lucky and couldn't find the 'right one' within that narrow confines and suffered as a result. Earlier monarchs had arranged marriages that as often as not weren't love matches at all although some affection may have developed over time.
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  #356  
Old 04-22-2012, 11:31 PM
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You are correct about eternity, as I lost my first husband many years ago, when I was young and remarried and do have another wonderful life.

Actually, Charles and Edward VIII, had the same problem, Charles just came in at the right time.
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  #357  
Old 04-23-2012, 12:52 AM
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Charles wasn't in the right time period in the 70s and 80s. He was still expected to marry within the aristocracy and a virgin or at least a girl with limited past experience. No one else had the same limitations.

Had he been able to marry solely for love, as William has been able to do, he woud have probably not married Diana at all and married someone far more suitable to be his wife and companion - not necessarily just for her own background but suited to him as a person e.g. Camilla.

I am not wanting, not will I participate in a 'CCD' triangle discussion but rather trying to show how had Charles been a generation further on he wouldn't have been pressured into marrying someone like Diana but would have been allowed to marry Camilla in the first place.

The most lasting legacy of his failed first marriage is that William has been allowed to marry solely for love, regardless of Kate's background. A generation ago William wouldn't have been allowed to marry Kate as she wasn't of the 'right background'.

Edward VIII had to give up the throne to marry a divorced woman (along with the government wanting to rid themselves of an unsatisfactory king) and times have moved on where Charles can be married to a divorcee without it threatening his position as the future King.

In the same way times have moved on and William was allowed to marry for love and for that reason alone.
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  #358  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:13 PM
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Iluvbertie, I fully agree with your analysis of both Charles & William's position. Without Charles & Camilla's example and support during the period in 2007 when William briefly split with Kate, I don't think the marriage between William & Kate would have gone ahead.
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  #359  
Old 04-26-2012, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have often wondered whether it was in fact Camilla who felt that she wasn't good enough for Charles with not having a title etc. She came from that bit lower down the social scale and may have felt that the heir to the throne was out of her reach as a husband, lover - yes, husband - no, so set her own sights lower and went with Andrew.
Then how do you explain his string of involvements with non-titled woman vetted as possible Queens - like Davina Sheffield? Who I think I focus on because it was the first moment I really thought he was going to marry - that she was it. Imagine if she had been the one? She seemed a modest sort - not flashy. Too bad it didn't work out.

Look at this picture - so sweet: Prince Charles and Davina Sheffield in a Carriage at Windsor: http://tinyurl.com/8xg6sjp

This is from a DailyMail article, 2004 - and honestly, I just can't believe the guy was fixated on Camilla early on. Or that Camilla would have seen herself as not up to snuff - look at the women he was dating after her - not everyone had a title, either.

It was with the failure of his first marriage, depressed and disillusioned, that he went seeking for something more.

A former aide says: 'Charles has always been attractive to women. Apart from the power thing, he dresses immaculately, he's in good shape and is charming and flirty.' He also has a strong libido [...]

Charles has always seemed to heed the famous 1974 note from his great-uncle, Earl Mountbatten, that said: 'I believe in a case like yours a man should sow his wild oats and have as many affairs as possible before settling down.'

Starting with Lucia Santa Cruz, the daughter of a former Chilean diplomat he met while a student at Cambridge and who is believed to have taken his virginity at 19 Charles has enjoyed flings with a stream of well-bred girls, including the Duke of Wellington's daughter Lady Jane Wellesley; Lord McGowan's daughter Davina Sheffield; landowner's daughter Anna Wallace and socialites Fiona Watson, Sabrina Guinness and model Jane Ward, who told a friend he was 'an experienced lover, tender and sweet.'
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  #360  
Old 04-26-2012, 01:21 AM
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Then how do you explain his string of involvements with non-titled woman vetted as possible Queens - like Davina Sheffield? Who I think I focus on because it was the first moment I really thought he was going to marry - that she was it. Imagine if she had been the one? She seemed a modest sort - not flashy. Too bad it didn't work out.

Look at this picture - so sweet: Prince Charles and Davina Sheffield in a Carriage at Windsor: Prince Charles with Davina Sheffield - HU009008 - Rights Managed - Stock Photo - Corbis

This is from a DailyMail article, 2004 - and honestly, I just can't believe the guy was fixated on Camilla early on. Or that Camilla would have seen herself as not up to snuff - look at the women he was dating after her - not everyone had a title, either.

It was with the failure of his first marriage, depressed and disillusioned, that he went seeking for something more. If it wasn't Camilla who Charles sought out in 1986 - who was it? (That may be a thread-nap).

A former aide says: 'Charles has always been attractive to women. Apart from the power thing, he dresses immaculately, he's in good shape and is charming and flirty.' He also has a strong libido [...]

Charles has always seemed to heed the famous 1974 note from his great-uncle, Earl Mountbatten, that said: 'I believe in a case like yours a man should sow his wild oats and have as many affairs as possible before settling down.'

Starting with Lucia Santa Cruz, the daughter of a former Chilean diplomat he met while a student at Cambridge and who is believed to have taken his virginity at 19 Charles has enjoyed flings with a stream of well-bred girls, including the Duke of Wellington's daughter Lady Jane Wellesley; Lord McGowan's daughter Davina Sheffield; landowner's daughter Anna Wallace and socialites Fiona Watson, Sabrina Guinness and model Jane Ward, who told a friend he was 'an experienced lover, tender and sweet.'
Wow. This is definitely an eye-opener. I never imagined Charles as someone who was outgoing in his youth, but it's nice to know that he enjoyed his days at university and got a chance to experience life of a student with all the bells and whistles, if you will.
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