C&C love story - the early days

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

Yes, I also have some examples in my life. Although, the damaged caused to children can be terrible whether or not the parents are famous, I believe it's even more difficult to spare your kids when you're in the limelight.

Well Charles was able to do it and so were Joachim and Alexandra as far as I know. I don't think they are too exceptional.

[TheTruth]

Yes, I completely agree on that. But they have to face the tabloids and medias. I'm not defending anyone here at all. For example, when William got hurt at school and both parents went to the hospital, Charles was painted as the bad father who went on with his PoW obligations and didn't stay by his side. That's what I'm talking about.

[ysbel]

I meant to actually post about C&C's early relationship, here.

Actually I am beginning to believe the marriage breakdown of APB and Camilla was very influential in what happened later. Tina Brown mentioned it and so did some others. The key was that APB was an incredible ladies man and its hard to APB as Camilla's consolation prize if she couldn't get Charles.

The most logical sequence to me is this:

1. Charles and Camilla date, they may or may not fall in love but they remain friends nonetheless.
2. Charles has to go to the Navy.
3. Camilla who is still very good looking at this stage and known for liking a bit of fun starts dating the dashing and handsome APB.
4. Camilla and APB finally marry.
5. APB knows how to charm women off his feet and he does but his problem is that he charms too many even when he is married.
6. Camilla, distraught, turns to her friends. One of her friends, fresh back from the Navy, is Charles.
7. Charles has his own problems, one of which was that his favorite uncle, Louis Mountbatten was killed by an IRA bomb.
8. Camilla because of her own problems stays friendly but is not emotionally available to Charles. Besides, Charles' pain is a different type of pain than hers.
9. However, young Lady Diana, is emotionally available to him and she worships him.
10. Charles, pushed and prodded by his family, marries Diana.
11. Charles and Diana start having trouble. Charles turns to his friends for support. Camilla is one of his friends.
12. This time Charles and Camilla share the same pain of a bad marriage. And they are able to comfort each other.
13. At some point they realize they get better comfort and support from each other than they get from the people they married.
14. Diana, distraught that Charles has turned away from her, starts looking for someone to comfort and support her. She finds temporary comfort and support from James Hewitt but that goes away. The only loyal companions she has are her friends from the press. At that point she decides to end it all for everybody.
15. The War of the Wales begins.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by TheTruth

Yes, I completely agree on that. But they have to face the tabloids and medias. I'm not defending anyone here at all. For example, when William got hurt at school and both parents went to the hospital, Charles was painted as the bad father who went on with his PoW obligations and didn't stay by his side. That's what I'm talking about.

OK, now I think understand you. Thanks for explaining. Yes, famous people don't have direct control over what the press say about them.

[TheTruth]

Pretty good summary. Looks quite simple when it's written but it sounded far less for them at that time.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by ysbel

SHORTENED POST - The most logical sequence to me is this:

1. Charles and Camilla date, they may or may not fall in love but they remain friends nonetheless.
2. Charles has to go to the Navy.
3. Camilla who is still very good looking at this stage and known for liking a bit of fun starts dating the dashing and handsome APB.
4. Camilla and APB finally marry.
5. APB knows how to charm women off his feet and he does but his problem is that he charms too many even when he is married.
6. Camilla, distraught, turns to her friends. One of her friends, fresh back from the Navy, is Charles.
7. Charles has his own problems, one of which was that his favorite uncle, Louis Mountbatten was killed by an IRA bomb.
8. Camilla because of her own problems stays friendly but is not emotionally available to Charles. Besides, Charles' pain is a different type of pain than hers.
9. However, young Lady Diana, is emotionally available to him and she worships him.
10. Charles, pushed and prodded by his family, marries Diana.
11. Charles and Diana start having trouble. Charles turns to his friends for support. Camilla is one of his friends.
12. This time Charles and Camilla share the same pain of a bad marriage. And they are able to comfort each other.
13. At some point they realize they get better comfort and support from each other than they get from the people they married.
14. Diana, distraught that Charles has turned away from her, starts looking for someone to comfort and support her. She finds temporary comfort and support from James Hewitt but that goes away. The only loyal companions she has are her friends from the press. At that point she decides to end it all for everybody.
15. The War of the Wales begins.

Beautifully put!

[Monika_]

Your grandmother is correct. She was never considered wife material because of her 'past.' Of course, the version we read about today is that Charles 'missed the boat' and she married APB.

[Monika_]

Well, I think there's something missing between numbers 10 and 11. That being Camilla's presence in the marriage from day one. How would any of us feel if a picture of a husband's 'former' girlfriend came along on our honeymoon? Hmmm...

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Monika_

She was never considered wife material because of her 'past.' .

That is the whole point, by whom?

Originally Posted by Monika_

Well, I think there's something missing between numbers 10 and 11. That being Camilla's presence in the marriage from day one. How would any of us feel if a picture of a husband's 'former' girlfriend came along on our honeymoon? Hmmm...

Camilla's presence from day one is only according to Diana. Even the story of the cufflinks was distorted, the C&C did not stand for Charles & Camilla.

[Monika_]

From what I've read, Lord Mountbatten encouraged Charles to have fun, but pick a good one for keeps. Camilla fell into the fun category. Also, just think about it from a common sense point of view... Do you recall when Charles and Diana got engaged, and all the fuss made over her 'eligibility,' etc? THAT was in 1981...now imagine how Camilla would have done in the early 70's. Sorry, don't think so.

As for the bracelet, personally, I don't care what the initials stand for or what they are, the point is most women would not take kindly to our husband to be giving a 'former' GF a gift of jewelry. Jewelry is a very personal gift, especially under these circumstances (if it had initials, etc). That says something...

Oops, and one more point. If Camilla didn't intend to maintain a presence in Charles' life, why was she so keen to befriend Diana, ask her whether she planned to hunt, etc. Hmmm... Sorry, she knew what she was doing all along.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Monika_

From what I've read, Lord Mountbatten encouraged Charles to have fun, but pick a good one for keeps. Camilla fell into the fun category. Also, just think about it from a common sense point of view... Do you recall when Charles and Diana got engaged, and all the fuss made over her 'eligibility,' etc? THAT was in 1981...now imagine how Camilla would have done in the early 70's. Sorry, don't think so.

I remember the press making a fuss about Diana apparently being a virgin and Mountbatten didn't suggest Charles pick 'a good one for keeps', at least that is unlike any of the quotes I have read. Even if he had, he slipped up with Diana! The point was, it was 'other's with their own agenda, whom did not feel Camilla was suitable and time showed them to be complete idiots.

As for the bracelet, personally, I don't care what the initials stand for or what they are, the point is most women would not take kindly to our husband to be giving a 'former' GF a gift of jewelry. Jewelry is a very personal gift, especially under these circumstances (if it had initials, etc). That says something...

If jewellery is a 'very personal gift', then there are many men and women in trouble, especially my husband and I. One exchange of gifts from and to a former male friend reads - To my Darling ------ with all my love. XXX. (on the presentation card). The watch I gave is engraved with 'To my Darling ----, I am always here to ........
Jewellery, is not considered to be personal, IMO, it is the sort of thing you give for however many years service, an 18th birthday, someone leaving, all normally engraved.

Originally Posted by Monika_

Oops, and one more point. If Camilla didn't intend to maintain a presence in Charles' life, why was she so keen to befriend Diana, ask her whether she planned to hunt, etc. Hmmm... Sorry, she knew what she was doing all along.

Probably because Charles asked all his old friends to befriend Diana and welcome her into the fold. Of course she was asked by many of his friends if she intended to hunt with them, she had afterall given Charles the impression that she was into the country scene.

However, I think we are both straying far from the remit of this thread, which is of course Charles and Camilla's Love Story, the Early Days, which means long before Diana came onto the scene.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

I Probably because Charles asked all his old friends to befriend Diana and welcome her into the fold. Of course she was asked by many of his friends if she intended to hunt with them, she had afterall given Charles the impression that she was into the country scene.

Yes, I can believe that. Charles was known in the 70s for having former girlfriends as friends after a breakup . He's still friends with former girlfriends today.

As I mentioned earlier, that tendancy of Charles was going to be problematic because when things go wrong, one usually confides in friends and if they are former girlfriends, then there is always a risk of the friend turning into something more. In the case of C&C, both of their marriages went sour so the temptation was high on both ends.

I personally take with a hefty grain of salt anything written about it after 1989. I think too many authors (and Charles, Camilla, and Diana) had a hefty motive of creative re-writing of history. I found one later statement by Diana about the engagement to be wrong and I imagine that with the motive of trying to explain what happened, there are many more creative re-writings, not only by Diana. Another creative re-writing, I believe, was that Camilla was always the love of Charles' life.

[Monika_]

Skydragon...I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

Lord Mountbatten's advice on the subject has been well documented and I never implied that my words were a direct quote.

As for jewelry, the meaning depends on the context of the exchange, so it can be very personal indeed.

As for the fold, well Camilla had no business being in it after Charles got engaged. If Charles didn't make that clear, Camilla should have had the class and discretion to back off.

Sorry, but that's how I feel and, as I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Elspeth]

The actual quote from Mountbatten is documented in this post:

C&C love story - the early days

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Another creative re-writing, I believe, was that Camilla was always the love of Charles' life.

I agree with almost all of your post. It is not only Charles who did/does maintain friendships with old girlfriends and I see nothing wrong with it. But then I would say that as most of our set dated each other at one time or another! I think Charles experienced a particularly intense type of puppy love and knowing that permission and acceptance from his elders was required, tried to satisy everyone but himself.

I am an old romantic, I believe that everyone was measured against the fun loving, capable, intriguing, self confident Camilla and everyone failed to live up tothe standard that had been set. I think they maintained a friendship that was misunderstood by someone who never formed lasting friendships herself. Unless someone has had experience of long lasting deep friendships, it is hard to appreciate the bond that will always exist between such friends.