When did your opinion of Diana change and why?

[ghost_night554]

Outside of the Diana discussions, I have never seen so many people who were so sympathetic and understanding of revenge. And these people say they would do the same vengeful things too.

I can understand people relating to Diana's compassionate nature, her need to help but when people relate sympathetically to her need for revenge and say that they would do the same, that always gives me pause.

If someone has the capacity for revenge that Diana had, I would stay far away from them. Its not worth it.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I am a revengeful person, moreover I certainly didn't mean to make it seem like I owe it all to Diana when I become somewhat revengeful. What I really believe is that yes although she may have felt a lot of hatred towards her ex, as would any other woman, it doesn't mean we go out and find someone new just to spite the other. Though of course being on a rebound or in a relationship so soon after the next makes you wonder how your ex is feeling. Do I think she was in a new relationship just out of revenge? No, I don't. And if you really get to know me I'm not a manipulative person at all either, yet a woman can be entitled to her own choices and at the time, yes I did feel like I wanted to get back at someone, but this was only realized after the action was done. In reality, I'm just saying what any other individual would never dare to admit

 

[zhontella]

The birthday thunder that existed in the storms in Diana's mind. She thought it was important, and that's all that mattered.

Diana's revenge: Dodi affair was calculated to snatch attention from Camilla | the Daily Mail

This story from Diana's "close friend": Lucia Flecha de Lima's testimony during the inquest was disrespectful towards Diana in every way. My guess is that after Diana died, friends such as these did not want to be on the wrong side of the British Royal Family.

 

[anbrida]

No one has mentioned that Diana called the paparazzi beforehand so they would capture the kiss between Dodi and her. That doesn't sound like a passive woman to me. She created the frenzy around herself and Dodi by all the romance talks and the engagement rumor. In a way, she killed herself by her own hands.

I agree with ysbel about Diana's vindicative nature. That's one of many unattractive traits of Diana's.

As for her craving for attention and adoration, I read that she's considering to move to New York before her death because she sensed that UK press and the public had become cooler toward her but the New York media and upper crust elite still adored her.

There are a lot of information I've never heard about. Diana called the paparazzi to catch the kiss picture? Could you do me a favor and send some related articles? If possible, a entire article would be better than just extracts? Thanks.

And the allegation that she's considering to move to New York because the public had become cooler toward her sounds fabulous. I did hope the pubic become cooler. No matter her fans or her non-fan, few become cooler.

 

[Incas]

This story from Diana's "close friend": Lucia Flecha de Lima's testimony during the inquest was disrespectful towards Diana in every way. My guess is that after Diana died, friends such as these did not want to be on the wrong side of the British Royal Family.

I don't understand why would the de Limas be concerned with being on the wrong side of the BRITISH royal family when they are Brazilians.

 

[ysbel]

I didn't mean to make it sound like I am a revengeful person,

I apologize if I appeared to single you out ghost night. Actually you're not the only person that has dared to admit it; a lot of people in this thread have, your post was just the one that reminded me of all the others which gave me pause.

Diana was a bit too vengeful in too many things and a little bit too much out of control for me to like her or to want to be her friend if I had ever been given the opportunity. I'm sure at some point in my life I've been vengeful too but in general when I see a lesser form of vengefulness in public people I admire, this vengeful nature is not what I relate to. But the truth is that the public people I admire if they have been vengeful in the past don't generally show it to the public which I think is more natural and healthier. That is not to say that they have never been vengeful but they don't give the appearance of encouraging their own vengefulness which I get from Diana herself and the public fascination with her.

 

[ysbel]

I've moved the discussion of Tiggy out from the Inquest thread to its own thread so members can talk about the Inquest in its own thread now.

ysbel
British forum moderator

 

[anbrida]

there is something I don't understand. The Camilla's 50th birthday was held in July 17th 1997. And the kiss photo was published 4 days before the crashed, that is August 27th 1997.

From the timing, I do believe the kiss picture came out for some meaning now. But definitely was not to steal Camilla's birthday thunder. The two episodes were more than one month away. Since August 28th 1997 was the one year aninversary of her divorce, maybe she wanted to use the picture as a proclaimation to the world that she was totally free from her last marriage now?

 

[love_cc]

"Stealing Camilla's birthday party thunder" is not about the kiss picutres, the photos are Diana who wore leopard spot swimsuit on French Beach just days before Camilla's birthday. In my observation, Diana had this capacity to overshadow Camilla in this act and this was her usual way of catching people's attention. '

I had to say, I wished Diana can keep quiet about her life and she probably won't die suddenly.

 

[sirhon11234]

How would have Diana kept her life quiet if the media was always intruding in it?

 

[Elspeth]

This story from Diana's "close friend": Lucia Flecha de Lima's testimony during the inquest was disrespectful towards Diana in every way. My guess is that after Diana died, friends such as these did not want to be on the wrong side of the British Royal Family.

Lucia Flecha de Lima is one friend of Diana's who hasn't sold her story to the press, and who has been discreet and sympathetic about Diana since her death. If you're saying that she isn't a genuine close friend, then Diana must have been pretty much devoid of close friends. And that isn't an inevitable state of affairs for a celebrity.

Why would a Brazilian care about being on the wrong side of the royal family? She was clearly on Diana's side while her husband was working in Britain, when it might have mattered - it doesn't matter now whether she's on the wrong side of the royal family or not.

 

[anbrida]

Sorry I made a mistake, the kiss picture was taken on Aug 4th, and published on Aug 10th in Mirror(from Operation Paget Inquiry).

There was a BBC article about Diana tipped-off information to photographer Jason Fraser.

"I was given information that she was seeing Dodi and that they were in the Med. I didn't know exactly where, but I was told the name of the boat. So I discussed it with [Italian photographer] Mario Brenner who found it and got the photographs."

"After that I took over and photographed her in Porto Fino, Sardinia and the South of France...right up until Paris. I didn't go to Paris. But otherwise I was always there, wherever she went. I was the person who revealed her relationship, I don't know whether that feels good or not, but I will be remembered for it."

He didn't revealed the source name. But "sources close to Fraser say that in the final frenzied weeks of her life, he spoke to Diana nearly every day."

BBC News | UK | The Snapper King

Ok, in this version, it was some unknown sources who made us know Diana called the photographer to take the picture.

There are another version. In a larry king interview, simmons said something:

SIMMONS: Well, I do actually believe that the version that Kate Snell tells, which she's the only one that's had access to Hasnat Khan, the heart surgeon, where she said that from the boat, Diana phoned the photographer, Jason Fraser, gave the position of where she was and then complained after the photos had been taken that they were too grainy.
She organized the whole photo shoot.
At the same time, she was phoning Hasnat Khan and his family every day from that yacht.

CNN.com - Transcripts

From this it seemed that Kate Snell was informed from Dr Khan and his family that Diana phoned the photgrapher Jason Fraser. I don't want to talk too much about this version, but it was too ridiculous. Actually I think there are only two persons who know the truth, Diana and Jason Fraser. Diana was dead, and Jason Fraser refused to disclose the source. And no one ever bother him to explain in more details.

There is an other interesting article about Mr Fraser, talking about how he was able to chase Camilla Parker Bowles in a beach in Mauritius in 2001. The sensitives of Jason Fraser to celebility was amazing. He was able to book a first-class seat just behind Camilla, though she was under a false name.

"Fraser will not reveal his source, of course, but vehemently denies that it came from someone in BA, though it is strange how well informed he is about the movements of celebrities around the world."

And there was something in the article I didn't know before:

"More pertinently, executives at the Mirror point to a St James's Palace spin -doctoring initiative which, they maintain, is aimed at presenting Camilla in a positive light. They claim that they, along with one or two other papers, often receive calls informing them that if a photographer were to be in a certain place at a certain time, they might be able to take a picture of Camilla attending, say, an opera or a private party linked to a charity. "

Roy Greenslade on Jason Fraser | Media | MediaGuardian

And in 2006, Jason Fraser was sued by Mohamed al-Fayed in Frances of breaching Diana and Dodi's privacy. The case dropped without revealing the reason, and a relieved Mr Fraser said "Only Mr Fayed will know why he decided to spend such a great deal of time and money on throwing so much dirt at me."

My opinion is Jason Fraser knew wherever Diana and Dodi would go, and followed them everywhere EXCEPT TO PARIS. Good sense huhuh. He was quite different to other paparazzo. He seemed have a lot of sources giving him information, though no one ever questioned who they were. What surprised me is, such mysterious figure as Jason Fraser was, has never been mentioned in "The Operation Paget inquiry report". And he was not asked to testify in the recent inquiry either. Actually, if the source was Diana, then it is very easy to speak out, because it would not make any news, since everyone have already assumed it was Diana.

 

[anbrida]

"Stealing Camilla's birthday party thunder" is not about the kiss picutres, the photos are Diana who wore leopard spot swimsuit on French Beach just days before Camilla's birthday. In my observation, Diana had this capacity to overshadow Camilla in this act and this was her usual way of catching people's attention. '

I had to say, I wished Diana can keep quiet about her life and she probably won't die suddenly.

She wore a leopard spot swimsuit on French Beach just days before Camilla's birthday, so people accused her of stealing Camilla's thunder?

 

[Skydragon]

"More pertinently, executives at the Mirror point to a St James's Palace spin -doctoring initiative which, they maintain, is aimed at presenting Camilla in a positive light. They claim that they, along with one or two other papers, often receive calls informing them that if a photographer were to be in a certain place at a certain time, they might be able to take a picture of Camilla attending, say, an opera or a private party linked to a charity. "

One of the executives at the time was the disgraced Piers Morgan. He was dismissed, I believe for publishing pictures that were proven to be false. Whilst Diana may have notified them, Camilla has always preferred her privacy, IMO.

To your point about the Fraser, he wasn't called because he couldn't know Diana, her state of mind regarding the alleged marriage and of course he wasn't in Paris at the time of the crash.

 

[Skydragon]

She wore a leopard spot swimsuit on French Beach just days before Camilla's birthday, so people accused her of stealing Camilla's thunder?

She posed for the pictures, which is slightly different to just wearing a swimsuit.

 

[georgiea]

She posed for the pictures, which is slightly different to just wearing a swimsuit.

I think since Princess Diana's divorce anything that she did with another man in public got a lot of press attention. TheTruth in another post mentioned Diana was the press' cash cow.

The photos that I remember of Diana in her swimsuit show me someone sitting and looking out to the water. It showed her wonderful, toned body and long legs. I wonder why that is a blow to Camilla. She was the one getting attention from her lover and friends at a wonderful 50th birthday bash.

 

[anbrida]

She posed for the pictures, which is slightly different to just wearing a swimsuit.

How to tell she was posing for the pictures? I remembered she always looked so great and natural in swimsuit, especially with her children in the sea where was her beloved place. You can accused her the same thing whenever she was on the beach, where I never saw a bad picture about her. But no one accused her such thing except for the 1997 summer. Why? because Camilla's 50 birthday happened to take place at the same time.

 

[jcbcode99]

Oh dear--what happens when you don't check a thread for a few days? Pages of wonderfull written posts, that is what you miss!

In Anbrida's Post # 591 on page 30 there is a link to a Wikipedia article about Dodi Dodi Al-Fayed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia with some photos which can be enlarged that are memorials to Diana and Dodi--the creepy wine glass, the bronze sculpture--honestly, does anyone think that Diana would have wanted to immortalized in such a way? These tributes are, in my opinion, disturbing. My question is, has anyone else seen these "monuments" and are they as hideous as I think they are???

-----
Diana loved attention--she may have said she couldn't stand it, but the truth is she courted it and used it to her advantage. I'm not saying she wanted her every move chronicled--it must have been difficult living under the lens like that--but then again, in so many ways she encouraged the press. She had a love/hate relationship with them that she used to her advantage and while using the press she would manipulate people by acting like a damsel in distress whenever her privacy was invaded. Really, it is a bit contrived to feel too sorry for her. I hate to sound so callous, but look at what she did to get some attention back on her after Camilla's birthday party--and look where all that got her. She helped to whip that press into such a frenzy that she ended up losing her life (not just the press' fault--no seatbelt, car going too fast, a millionaire playboy who was little too cocky). I completely agree with a previous sentiment--why didn't she stay at the Ritz? I highly doubt that the management or other people at the Ritz were going to let the press into the building to set up camp around her bedroom door. What was the rationale? Check into the Ritz, and then leave to go elsewhere to get away from the press? Just stay at the hotel. Diana knew she had created a frenzy for photos of her and Dodi, she knew she was losing credibility/appeal in the UK, so she created a sensation; little did she know........

 

[Incas]

I think people are forgetting Diana was taken to the press boat by the Fayed staff, where she made cryptic statements to the affect that there was going to be a big surprise. If I remember correctly, it was either on the day of Camilla's birthday or the day before. Of course, the headline the next day were her statements, accompanied by the swimsuit photos. Therefore, the accusation that she was trying overshadow Charles' party for Camilla.

 

[anbrida]

I think people are forgetting Diana was taken to the press boat by the Fayed staff, where she made cryptic statements to the affect that there was going to be a big surprise. If I remember correctly, it was either on the day of Camilla's birthday or the day before. Of course, the headline the next day were her statements, accompanied by the swimsuit photos. Therefore, the accusation that she was trying overshadow Charles' party for Camilla.

that happened at july 14th, and camilla's birthday party was july 17th.
I think things happened on july 14th, would be on the headline on july 15th, or 16th, and camilla's birthday party headline should be on july 18th or 19th.

 

[georgiea]

In Anbrida's Post # 591 on page 30 there is a link to a Wikipedia article about Dodi Dodi Al-Fayed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia with some photos which can be enlarged that are memorials to Diana and Dodi--the creepy wine glass, the bronze sculpture--honestly, does anyone think that Diana would have wanted to immortalized in such a way? These tributes are, in my opinion, disturbing. My question is, has anyone else seen these "monuments" and are they as hideous as I think they are???

The first photo with photos of Diana, Princess of Wales and Dodi, is the ring in that thing between the two photos? I think it is very tacky to have a memorial in a department store.
-----

 

[georgiea]

that happened at july 14th, and camilla's birthday party was july 17th.
I think things happened on july 14th, would be on the headline on july 15th, or 16th, and camilla's birthday party headline should be on july 18th or 19th.

I still do not see why we have to compare Camilla's 50th birthday party to photos of Diana, Princess of Wales in a bathing suit or kissing. Camilla got her man to give her a big bash, Di got the playboy. Both in my opinion, had the partners they wanted to be with.

 

[Skydragon]

My question is, has anyone else seen these "monuments" and are they as hideous as I think they are???
......

Hideous doesn't quite cover it but I can't think what words would. Almost as bad as his lifesize waxwork of him in a tartan outfit, well Madam Tussaud's wasn't going to do him, so he did his own. I suppose that could be his next step, Diana and Dodi in wax!

 

[TheTruth]

Hideous doesn't quite cover it but I can't think what words would. Almost as bad as his lifesize waxwork of him in a tartan outfit, well Madam Tussaud's wasn't going to do him, so he did his own. I suppose that could be his next step, Diana and Dodi in wax!

Ewww ... Please Mr Al-Fayed, not another illustration of bad taste

 

[jcbcode99]

Hideous doesn't quite cover it but I can't think what words would. Almost as bad as his lifesize waxwork of him in a tartan outfit, well Madam Tussaud's wasn't going to do him, so he did his own. I suppose that could be his next step, Diana and Dodi in wax!

Oh YUCK! But, I cannot help myself--Skydragon--have you a picture of this??

 

[tinkerbell1948]

Those "monuments" are just so tacky beyond belief.

Where is the waxwork of him?

 

[anbrida]

I still do not see why we have to compare Camilla's 50th birthday party to photos of Diana, Princess of Wales in a bathing suit or kissing. Camilla got her man to give her a big bash, Di got the playboy. Both in my opinion, had the partners they wanted to be with.

Me either, to me all so-called evidences are very plausible. I don't know why only these evidences can make people have such strong conclusion.

Actually the most frequent used arguement was Diana manipulated the press. And there is a funny circulation here. Once you suspect Diana manipulated the press, you would find the stealing thunder thing possible. And once you find the stealing thunder thing possible, you would find the manipulation more possible, then the stealing thunder thing even more possible, then ... This two are just like egg and hen. You don't know whether hen produces egg first or egg produces hen first, but they produce each other.

Be honest, several day before, I didn't objected this allegation too much. Actually since ten years ago, I've read infinite many articles "asserting" Diana's stole Camilla limelight, though without further explanation. It seems any statement if being repeated 1000 times will become a truth. After 1000 times, it fosters a thinking habit.

 

[Roslyn]

Oh YUCK! But, I cannot help myself--Skydragon--have you a picture of this??

I don't know about Skydragon, but I found one . You'll notice it is hosted on his website, which might be an interesting place to snoop around. Or not.

http://www.alfayed.com/upload/business interests/balnagown/maf waxwork/size_c/size c_maf_waxwork.jpg

 

[jcbcode99]

That's just sad--and creepy. Really, really creepy. And the outfit it doesn't really make sense--a Scottish Muslim? Its not what one would expect, but then again, it's a wax figure....
Thanks Roslyn!
And yes, interesting place to snoop about----that wine glass is still the creepiest thing, though.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

And the outfit it doesn't really make sense--a Scottish Muslim?

Here's a picture of a right Scottish muslim : born a Scot of a noble and ancient family, Sir Abdullah Archibald Hamilton converted to islam in 1924....

http://www.radwan.cwc.net/feb1935.jpg

Difference to Al-Fayed is that Sir Abdullah was a member of the clan whose tartan he wore. Knowing how important the tartan is to the Scots, I believe Al-Fayed is really, really rude to present himself that way. Or did he get an invitation of a clan chieftain to wear the colours of that clan (in case a chieftain can grant the right to wear the tartan to non-clan members?)

 

[Roslyn]

Knowing how important the tartan is to the Scots, I believe Al-Fayed is really, really rude to present himself that way. Or did he get an invitation of a clan chieftain to wear the colours of that clan (in case a chieftain can grant the right to wear the tartan to non-clan members?)

Seems he bought the right to wear that tartan. This is the story that goes with the pic: Alfayed.com - The website of Mohamed Al Fayed but perhaps it should come with a warning that there's a rather disturbing mental image towards the end.