The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals > Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997)

Join The Royal Forums Today
View Poll Results: When did your opinion of Diana start to change and why?
Morton book (1990) 25 9.80%
War of the Waleses (starting 1990) 20 7.84%
Squidgygate (1992) 12 4.71%
Hewitt affair (1993) 17 6.67%
Charles' interview (1994) 5 1.96%
Panorama interview (1995) 43 16.86%
Phone calls to Oliver Hoare (1994) 14 5.49%
Dodi al-Fayed (1997) 23 9.02%
Other (please explain) 96 37.65%
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #141  
Old 12-30-2007, 11:29 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
yet how on earth could she have underestimated their power?
It would have seemed that both 'parties' underestimated the other. I think all were in for a surprise, myself. Certainly a very unhappy situation.
__________________

__________________

"Dressing is a way of life" - Monsieur Saint Laurent
  #142  
Old 12-30-2007, 11:38 PM
Chimene's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 506
Quote:
It would have seemed that both 'parties' underestimated the other. I think all were in for a surprise, myself. Certainly a very unhappy situation.
Yes, she certainly surprised the "enemy", one she wanted to still be a part of.
__________________

__________________
The need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind. ~ Albert Camus
  #143  
Old 12-31-2007, 12:22 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: , Canada
Posts: 1,692
It's surprising now how many people are viewing the Panoramic episode as a negative. Maybe the last twelve years have filled in a lot of context it took place. However, at the time, when Nicolas Soames described it as a toe-curdling performance, he was pretty much pummeled by the rest of the panel in a round-table analysis group, not to mention virtually all press and public the next day. As a foreshadowing of the reaction to her death two years later, if anyone held a negative opinion of the princess, it was not a good idea to publicly acknowledge it.

Personally, I was curious of the whole BRF for much of the 1980's. I started to be more interested in the Wales family when their marriage drama started. I think it was around Sept. 1987 when C&D were apart for about a month and the press where counting the days. There was a flood in Wales and the couple went to tour the affected area. I remember watching news clip of their visit. I was struck by how Charles appeared to be genuinely concerned by the devastation, and Diana was looking like she couldn't wait to get out of there. She only smiled once when someone presented her flowers. A few months later, during the couple's Australian tour, she purposely upstaged Charles with a piano performance. I think someone else have mentioned the same episode. While the press account of the incident made light of it, and showing how Diana blushed when the music teacher gave her a kiss for the performance, I just thought that was wholly uncalled for. It really made me wonder if she really is the loving devoted wife people seem to believe. Over the years, there were other accounts of how she would use her children in a petty game of one-upmanship. I think it was "The Housekeeper's Diary" by Wendy Berry that described how Diana would keep the children away from Charles even when they were at Highgrove together. Years before her using the press became obvious, there was a trip to Nevis with her mother and sisters in April 1990. There was a photo op on the beach with Diana in a leopard print dress. Several stories at the time described a curious thing, when the photographers were starting to leave after the photo op, Diana dashed inside and came back in a red bikini. There were photos of her lounging next to her mother in the sand from a long distance. It was just lots of little things that doesn't make sense if someone was intent on having privacy.
__________________
  #144  
Old 12-31-2007, 12:43 AM
sthreats's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: midwest, United States
Posts: 332
First a person can have both an Axis I diagnosis-a mood disorder such as depression, bipolar, atypical depression etc. AND an Axis 2 diagnosis of a personality disorder such as borderline, histronic, narcisstic etc.. Since most people's mood disorders are cyclical a person can be an intelligent and functional member of society and Still have serious mental illness.In the book "Diana in Search of self" Bradford does an exhausative review of Diana's maladaptive and manipulative behaviors going back to middle school. She makes a good case for borderline personality disorder.It is clear that Prince Charles realized early in the marriage that she needed help. Many authors have documented that Diana was taken to many psychiatrists and was offered medication that she refused. NO SPOUSE can make one comply with treatment. Saying that Diana had a mental illness does not excuse her manipulative or hurtful behaviors. Rather I think it explains some of it. Ultimately it was her responsiblity to get help and take care of herself.ADD- Axis 1thru 5 diagnosis are found in the DSM-these categories help mental health professionals classify illness.
__________________
  #145  
Old 12-31-2007, 01:14 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: , Canada
Posts: 1,692
I don't understand the need to diagnose someone having any mental disorder. Almost everyone have had moments of pique and pettiness, due to jealousy, anger, frustration or just because. That some people carry those moments to the next level and make a habbit of seeing everyone else as their competitor or enemy don't make them mentally unstable.
__________________
  #146  
Old 12-31-2007, 07:33 AM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incas View Post
I don't understand the need to diagnose someone having any mental disorder. Almost everyone have had moments of pique and pettiness, due to jealousy, anger, frustration or just because. That some people carry those moments to the next level and make a habbit of seeing everyone else as their competitor or enemy don't make them mentally unstable.

The difference is that you can help with a mental illness through medication nowadays - and those who let themselves be helped are normally much happier when taking their "happy pills" than they were before and are in most cases able to have a good family life again. But if it is a question of character (there are petty and nasty people around, you know) then no medication can turn these people into nice human beings. The mentally ill suffer from their disease while the nasty people enjoy their being nasty.

I'm not sure about Diana. Only she would have known.
__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #147  
Old 12-31-2007, 07:35 AM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimene View Post
I was almost persuaded by the mental illness argument, when I decided to re-read the Bashir interview. She was all over the place that day and her answers were so cold and calculating. She even spoke of herself in the third person like some dictator.
There are even some academic papers on the net where the authors, communication analysts doing resear at university, decipher the system of "blaming" others during that interview. For anybody interested in language and rhetorics, well worth the read. Must see if I find the link....
__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #148  
Old 12-31-2007, 08:12 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by sthreats View Post
First a person can have both an Axis I diagnosis-a mood disorder such as depression, bipolar, atypical depression etc.
thanks for the explanation. Only one thing, I believe the author of "Diana In Search of herself" is Sally Bendall Smith not Sarah Bradford. Bradford is more explicitly sympathic expression about Diana, but Sally Bendall Smith is more neutural.
__________________
  #149  
Old 12-31-2007, 08:47 AM
sthreats's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: midwest, United States
Posts: 332
Red face

To love cc. Thanks for the author clarification. So many books.... (smile)
__________________
  #150  
Old 12-31-2007, 11:19 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incas View Post
It's surprising now how many people are viewing the Panoramic episode as a negative. Maybe the last twelve years have filled in a lot of context it took place. However, at the time, when Nicolas Soames described it as a toe-curdling performance, he was pretty much pummeled by the rest of the panel in a round-table analysis group, not to mention virtually all press and public the next day. As a foreshadowing of the reaction to her death two years later, if anyone held a negative opinion of the princess, it was not a good idea to publicly acknowledge it.
Yes that was my memory too. Everybody thought that the interview was the best thing that Diana had done and wasn't the Royal Family such a pile of junk for treating her that way.

But I think the damage to Diana was more behind the scenes. Despite Tony Blair's seemingly chumminess to Diana's memory, I can't imagine that he was elated at the prospect of the wife of the heir of the throne doing a secret interview outside the knowledge of the royal family and all the government officials. Diana was still part of an institution that was part of the government.

So I think the damage to Diana was more to the fact that people inside the government realized that the government was going to be hampered if Diana continued to do stuff like that while she was part of the Royal Family. She did gain the reputation for being a loose cannon and the government hates loose cannons.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
  #151  
Old 12-31-2007, 12:26 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Yes that was my memory too. Everybody thought that the interview was the best thing that Diana had done and wasn't the Royal Family such a pile of junk for treating her that way.
Erm - not everybody...

But I must admit I was a bit surprised and more than a little discouraged that such a parade of spiteful, sneaky grandstanding had been received with such acclaim.
__________________
  #152  
Old 12-31-2007, 12:52 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
There are even some academic papers on the net where the authors, communication analysts doing research at university, decipher the system of "blaming" others during that interview.

I'm not sure why it takes University Research to decipher a blame system . Most of us have it at one time or another in varying degrees. Diana had probably not yet fully realized her own power so was still blaming others more than she needed at that time.
__________________
  #153  
Old 12-31-2007, 12:54 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 1,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
If Diana would have done treatment for her illness early in her marriage, she would still be married to Prince Charles. I just wish Charles would have made her do it.
I don't know that they would still be married. But I seem to remember reading that Charles DID try to get her help early in the marriage. Does anyone remember this?
__________________
  #154  
Old 12-31-2007, 01:05 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by sthreats View Post
Many authors have documented that Diana was taken to many psychiatrists and was offered medication that she refused. NO SPOUSE can make one comply with treatment.

Thank goodness Diana did refuse the medication -- she may have had some behavioral problems, but they were not severe enough to warrant messing with her brain anatomy. There were also reports that Charles had a mental breakdown around the time he broke his arm -- his royal duties stopped for quite a time -- and Diana moved back in and stayed with him until he was better. That's kind of what I remember, with maybe some details off here or there. I think Charles refused any medication for his problem as well -- his expert advisors have correctly warned him about the dangers of mood medications or those little "happy pills" that aren't the safe panacea to all mental quirks that Big Pharma would like everyone to believe.
__________________
  #155  
Old 12-31-2007, 01:13 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incas View Post
I don't understand the need to diagnose someone having any mental disorder. Almost everyone have had moments of pique and pettiness, due to jealousy, anger, frustration or just because. That some people carry those moments to the next level and make a habit of seeing everyone else as their competitor or enemy doesn't make them mentally unstable.
Very true, but there is no profit for big business in your assessment. There is even a pill for "housewife fatigue". It's a disease some wives get when after they get home from work, take care of the children, clean the house, and make dinner while hubby sits on the couch watching football, they are not "in the mood" later that night. There is a little happy, and very expensive, pill for that too! I kid you not!
__________________
  #156  
Old 12-31-2007, 02:34 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: , Canada
Posts: 1,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
The difference is that you can help with a mental illness through medication nowadays - and those who let themselves be helped are normally much happier...I'm not sure about Diana. Only she would have known.
Based on everything I read about her, Diana doesn't struck me as having a mental problem. The fact that labeling her more extreme behavior as illness might it is easier for some to tolerate those behavior, but that doesn't make it true. On the other hand, if she was suffering from mental illness, I seriously doubt she would have known. While I do accept there are people suffering from mental illness, I do find it troubling for the prevelance of "happy pills" for everything.
__________________
  #157  
Old 12-31-2007, 02:36 PM
jcbcode99's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Richmond Area, United States
Posts: 1,980
Pills are certainly never the answer and I am not a fan of medication at all--in Diana's case I think she really just needed a good, firm counselor/psychiatrist. However, being the Princess of Wales, it would be hard to find someone willing to take that role; also, whenever Diana did not get her way she would get rid of the person who, in her mind, was in the way of her happiness. So, even if she had a counselor who took the right approach with her about choices, behavior, etc...--if she got upset she would have said "toodles" and been on her way. I think she would have been very difficult to treat and we will never really know any of those details anyway because of patient/doctor confidentiality laws. Also, any counselor/psychiatrist would have recognized the act she skillfully played and would have called her on it; then she would have had to address it.
Honestly, I don't think she would have allowed herself to benefit from any type of therapy. I'm sure she had therapy, but it was probably more the type that encouraged to feel like a victim, etc...
__________________
Janet

"We make a living by what we do; we make a life by what we give" Winston Churchill
  #158  
Old 12-31-2007, 04:07 PM
Chimene's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 506
Quote:
Diana had probably not yet fully realized her own power so was still blaming others more than she needed at that time.
Her so-called power was based, for the most part, on the superficial. In other words, she was very popular because she was a beautiful virginal bride, and she looked fantastic in clothes while performing her duties.

She was capable of showing great compassion for the less fortunate, but she did not invent the concept of charity. Although, in her effort to take advantage of and solidify her popularity, she along with her accomplices – the tabloid press – made it seem that Diana’s approach was the most worthy.

Selling Diana‘s great legs while performing her work was quite a profitable venture. Meanwhile, Charles and Anne in particularly, have been doing such for years. Alas, they are not very sexy and can’t sell papers.

The Diana effect on charity is her true legacy, if you ask me. Everyone nowadays think that unless you’re pointing a camera in the face of some poor people, you’re not charitable enough. It has become a mean to boost one’s image. An idea I vehemently reject.

I do believe in the power of ONE, but that would have required knowing what she was doing, and she did NOT. Case in point: while making a case to the world [who loved her = "her power"], she showed her true colors.
__________________
The need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind. ~ Albert Camus
  #159  
Old 12-31-2007, 04:19 PM
sthreats's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: midwest, United States
Posts: 332
I am also not an advocate of "a pill for everyone". Every case is unique. Diana also did not follow thru with the counsellors and kept switching. I only brought the medication issue up re Prince Charles being accused of not trying to help her.
__________________
  #160  
Old 12-31-2007, 05:01 PM
TheTruth's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between the first and second floor of the Eiffel Tower, France
Posts: 2,682
Well I read that before summer 1997, she had been on sleeping pills for 5 years. A friend of mine was on "happy pills" for a month and he got serious problems caused by the side effects of the medication (it's even written that if you don't follow the indications, it may give you suicide ideas ... ... "happy pills", right )
__________________

__________________

Please, help find a cure for ALS

Because it matters...
Closed Thread

Tags
andrew morton, diana princess of wales, dodi fayed, james hewitt, jonathan dimbleby, oliver hoare, prince charles, prince of wales, princess diana, squidgygate


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Change of the Act of Succession - 1979 Constitution Change GrandDuchess Royal House of Sweden 276 06-30-2014 12:52 AM
What would you change? Lena Royal Chit Chat 20 06-23-2010 06:31 PM
Change of name of our community to TRF... Andy R Forum Announcements and Admin 2 08-29-2004 04:29 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events duchess of cambridge dutch royal history fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympics ottoman poland pom pregnancy prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion princess of asturias queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:51 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]