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View Poll Results: When did your opinion of Diana start to change and why?
Morton book (1990) 25 9.80%
War of the Waleses (starting 1990) 20 7.84%
Squidgygate (1992) 12 4.71%
Hewitt affair (1993) 17 6.67%
Charles' interview (1994) 5 1.96%
Panorama interview (1995) 43 16.86%
Phone calls to Oliver Hoare (1994) 14 5.49%
Dodi al-Fayed (1997) 23 9.02%
Other (please explain) 96 37.65%
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1061  
Old 05-23-2011, 12:37 PM
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I think opinions on marriage will vary depending on the beliefs of the opinioner and to which generation the person belongs to.
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  #1062  
Old 05-25-2011, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I don't want to veer off topic but ICAM. I think it is a bit simplistic to label those marriages as "sad" because they do not conform to what would work for us.

From what I have learned of both marriages, they involved relationships and circumstances that were incredibly complex. Everyone involved(Jack and Jackie, Hillary and Bill) is or was highly intelligent, ambitious and complicated.

Hillary and Bill have a marriage that works for THEM apparently, and Jacqueline Kennedy is said to have mourned her unfaithful (first)husband to the end of her life, requesting in her will to be buried at his side.

I especially admire the fact that both women refused to discuss or justify their choices to the public.

In the end, nobody really understands what happens in the intimacy of a relationship between husband and wife, except the two people involved.
I agree, Jackie was heartbroken when JFK died and imo the way she reacted shows that there was genuine love there. I don't know enough about Bill*Hilary's marriage but I view it in the same way as Jack and Jackie's, they found a way to have it work for them; whether they changed their views of marriage to business, politics or whatever; if it works for them I don't think anyone should judge. Diana wasn't a Hilary or Jackie, to stay with a man who was having affairs; but also I believe Jackie and Hilary didn't have to deal with a situation where the husband was in love with the women he was cheating with.
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  #1063  
Old 05-26-2011, 03:40 AM
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I often recall the video and TV footage of Diana I've seen and am still fascinated by the way she could light up a room and her audience. I really believed in her willingness to do good things and grieved when she died. But it must have been tough for those close to her to know that that was all, though a genuine part of her, just part of her personality which had so many dark sides as well. When I recall the infamous Squidygate-tapes, I'm still baffled at the coldness of her when she talks about Sarah York ("the redhead"). A lot of information I have now shows to me that she became spoilt by being a princess but not getting all she wanted turned her into a difficult personality which virtually walked over corpses to get what she wanted. Not nice.
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  #1064  
Old 05-26-2011, 03:47 PM
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I think that my impression of Diana was further damaged by the Settelen tapes, because she talked freely and without any apparent remorse about slapping her father after he married Raine. She seemed to be boasting about how she slapped him and told him that it was on behalf of all of them for how much he hurt them (by marrying Raine). I also remember a quote from her father about how "We were all terrified of her", but I can't remember the source--although I believe it was in a book by a respected author--Bradford, maybe? So I think that she always had a dark, bullying side to her personality that came out when she was really angry or hurt. The Settleton tapes dealt a final blow to any illusions I had about Diana's personality. In a way, they were more destructive to my opinion about her than either Morton or Bashir, because she talked about pushing Raine down the stairs after her brother's wedding, again with no remorse, as well as the incident about her father. So I realized that here was a woman who would become physically violent as well as being nasty in the way that women can be--by gossiping or being catty. The public would have dismissed these stories as tabloid gossip, but there she was on video telling these stories about herself. I admire her public work, but I think that she could have been nastier in private--particularly in close family circles--than we'll ever know.


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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
A lot of information I have now shows to me that she became spoilt by being a princess but not getting all she wanted turned her into a difficult personality which virtually walked over corpses to get what she wanted. Not nice.
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  #1065  
Old 05-26-2011, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I think that my impression of Diana was further damaged by the Settleton tapes, because she talked freely and without any apparent remorse about slapping her father after he married Raine. She seemed to be boasting about how she slapped him and told him that it was on behalf of all of them for how much he hurt them (by marrying Raine). I also remember a quote from her father about how "We were all terrified of her", but I can't remember the source--although I believe it was in a book by a respected author--Bradford, maybe? So I think that she always had a dark, bullying side to her personality that came out when she was really angry or hurt. The Settleton tapes dealt a final blow to any illusions I had about Diana's personality. In a way, they were more destructive to my opinion about her than either Morton or Bashir, because she talked about pushing Raine down the stairs after her brother's wedding, again with no remorse, as well as the incident about her father. So I realized that here was a woman who would become physically violent as well as being nasty in the way that women can be--by gossiping or being catty. The public would have dismissed these stories as tabloid gossip, but there she was on video telling these stories about herself. I admire her public work, but I think that she could have been nastier in private--particularly in close family circles--than we'll ever know.
What year were the Settleton tapes made? Were these tapes Diana, Princess of Wales whole life? Did she say she was sorry for her actions?
Why else would they be brought up.
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  #1066  
Old 05-26-2011, 04:27 PM
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The tapes were made in 1992 when Diana was working with her speech coach, Peter Settelen. There are clips available on YouTube. Diana doesn't appear to be depressed on them. She expresses no remorse at all for her violent acts. If anything, she seems rather proud of them. She talks about her sex life with Charles, her relationship with her family, her suspicions that her favourite protection officer was "bumped off", etc. Settleton is interviewing her in order to help her "find her voice." The tapes weren't meant to be made public, but they came out after her death and were broadcast. Here's an article I found: USATODAY.com - Diana tapes suggest lover 'bumped off'

The tapes were part of Diana's estate and were somehow "acquired" by NBC.



Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
What year were the Settleton tapes made? Were these tapes Diana, Princess of Wales whole life? Did she say she was sorry for her actions?
Why else would they be brought up.
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  #1067  
Old 05-26-2011, 04:53 PM
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I almost fell off of my chair when I heard Diana discussing her sex life with Settelin... her speech coach!...she was actually talking about the number of times she and Charles slept together during the week! She wasn't the least bit embarrassed or hesitant!

I remember shaking my head going "Noooooooo Diana...SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP!!"

I was also jolted by how cold and dismissive she was about Sarah...and how she bragged about shoving Raine down a flight of steps...what if she had killed the woman??!

Sigh...may God grant her soul peace.
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  #1068  
Old 05-26-2011, 08:04 PM
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The secret tapes

If what she tell is the truth, I am amazed that no one, got her some help. how can anyone just stand by and look at another human being dissolve like that. And I am not saying this put down Prince Charles. I suspect that he has done what he could to his ability. But the doctor friend who helped her make these tapes, should bloody well have been able to help her. Geezzz..with frirnds like this who needs enemies!

I really hope that she has found peace at last.
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  #1069  
Old 05-26-2011, 08:55 PM
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When it comes to wicked stepmoms, I know a thing or two about it. And unless you do, withold judgement and even then it is relative. Children often see sometimes in the new spouse what the parent does not want to see.
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  #1070  
Old 05-26-2011, 09:22 PM
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I did not take much interest in Diana. I did not see her wedding. I just assumed that Prince Charles had gotten married and ho hum.

In the early 1990's I of course starting reading things. After many years later (and about 20 or so books) I felt that Diana was an emotionally fragile, neurotic woman. I came to this conclusion after I confirmed that she had:

a. Pushed her stepmother down the stairs in 1986 at Althorp during her brothers wedding.
b. Threw herself down the steps after having an argument with her husband.
c. When she was single, threw an egg and flour concoction all over James Gilbey's $100,000 car after he stood her up and other things ad nauseum.

Prince Charles and the Queen did not want the separation or the divorce. I think she was self destructive in some way. I realized when I was watching her son get married that his bride was nothing like Diana in fact quite the opposite. Although he loved his mother, he believed she was a spoiled, difficulty, unhappy, and complicated woman. Prince William has married a simple, uncomplicated woman who came from a stable, happy home life. That is exactly what he needed.
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  #1071  
Old 05-26-2011, 09:29 PM
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There's a difference between having strong feelings of dislike for a step-mother or resenting a father for getting married to her, and taking out one's feelings in a violent manner. I don't judge a person for having harsh feelings--goodness knows I've had enough of my own; but slapping and pushing take things to a whole other level. For one thing, Raine would have been within her rights to call the police over that incident.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vita View Post
When it comes to wicked stepmoms, I know a thing or two about it. And unless you do, withold judgement and even then it is relative. Children often see sometimes in the new spouse what the parent does not want to see.
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  #1072  
Old 05-26-2011, 09:33 PM
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Her doctor friend was involved with the tapes Diana made for Andrew Morton in 1991. Peter Settelen was responsible for the video tapes made in 1992.

I agree. Her doctor friend should have been able to see her emotional problems; but then again, Diana could appear normal and charming. She was almost without fault during her public appearances, particularly when she was working on her own.

I believe that Charles and others tried to get her help, but she wouldn't accept it from them. On the other hand, she claimed to be "crying out for help" but ignored.


Quote:
Originally Posted by olebabs View Post
If what she tell is the truth, I am amazed that no one, got her some help. how can anyone just stand by and look at another human being dissolve like that... But the doctor friend who helped her make these tapes, should bloody well have been able to help her. Geezzz..with frirnds like this who needs enemies!
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  #1073  
Old 05-26-2011, 09:38 PM
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A major part of Diana's tragedy is that she was willing to talk to anyone about her most personal things, particularly if the person she was talking to was a male. Look at the people who were her "vessels": Andrew Morton, Martin Bashir, Peter Settelen--all men to whom she told everything to at the slightest provocation. She was very vulnerable to male attention, and her involvement with Martin and Bashir in particular contributed to her divorce and ultimate death.



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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I almost fell off of my chair when I heard Diana discussing her sex life with Settelin... her speech coach!..
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  #1074  
Old 05-26-2011, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
What year were the Settleton tapes made? Were these tapes Diana, Princess of Wales whole life? Did she say she was sorry for her actions?
Why else would they be brought up.
Well the tapes were made in 1992 when exactly in 92 I do not know but alot of her relationships changed by 1997. Diana and Raine's relationship improved greatly. I read in Tina Brown's book that Diana apologized to Raine and thanked her for taking care of her father. And apparently Diana made up with her father as she was with him in his final weeks except when he persuaded her to vacation with Charles and the boys; while she was on the trip the Earl died.
Those tapes were private showing Diana venting out her anger. It wasn't ment to be public but it was released for the sole purpose of making money.
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  #1075  
Old 05-26-2011, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962
There's a difference between having strong feelings of dislike for a step-mother or resenting a father for getting married to her, and taking out one's feelings in a violent manner. I don't judge a person for having harsh feelings--goodness knows I've had enough of my own; but slapping and pushing take things to a whole other level. For one thing, Raine would have been within her rights to call the police over that incident.
It was only by the grace of God, I did not do the same to mine. But when she uttered nasty things about my mom to me that were untrue (she hated that my father's side hated her and saw her for gold digging you-know-what that she was but they loved my mom till her ending days), I punched her in the face and ripped her a new one. Litetally. And I froze Vati out until he came to his senses and refused to honour any custody arrangements. The most undignified, de classe moment of my life and I don't regret it, still revel in it, and would do it all again and I am more of a make love and not war kind of gal.

But enough about that. I heard Raine was horrible according to an article I read in Vanity Fair. It was about the English estates and Charles Spencer did not have kind words for his stepmummy.

This all could have affected Diana greatly. They did get friendlier in the end so...My comment was more general than anything else.

But think about Diana'a realtive Georgiana Duchess of Devonshire. They seemed to have similar attitudes. Could Diana's issues been hereditary (and not just because of Georgiana)? This detail may change some opinions maybe?
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  #1076  
Old 05-26-2011, 11:27 PM
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Well, if Diana's husband had truly loved her, he would have set her on his lap, put his arms around her and told her they would work things out. And if Diana could have laid Charles' head in her lap and said, 'There there. Everything will be alright, maybe they would still be happily married.

But sadly, that's not the way it was between the two of them. Prince Charles was an emotional cripple himself and needed a mommy (i.e., Camilla). And he simply could not fulfill Diana's emotional needs nor she his (empty pitchers cannot fill each other up). And everyone knows the rest of the story. Hopefully, Diana's children have and will find happiness in life.
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  #1077  
Old 05-26-2011, 11:44 PM
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I believe that there's mental instability in the Fermoy's, and Diana's uncle on that side committed suicide. The Spencers were known to be a really dramatic, passionate family; but I don't know of any mental illness there. Genetics plays such a big part in things. So she might have had a tendency there anyway that came out after her parents' marriage breakdown. And then it would have got worse with all the pressure she was under during her engagement and after her marriage. The wonder is that she achieved so much in spite of everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vita View Post
But think about Diana'a realtive Georgiana Duchess of Devonshire. They seemed to have similar attitudes. Could Diana's issues been hereditary (and not just because of Georgiana)? This detail may change some opinions maybe?
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  #1078  
Old 05-27-2011, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
A major part of Diana's tragedy is that she was willing to talk to anyone about her most personal things, particularly if the person she was talking to was a male. Look at the people who were her "vessels": Andrew Morton, Martin Bashir, Peter Settelen--all men to whom she told everything to at the slightest provocation. She was very vulnerable to male attention, and her involvement with Martin and Bashir in particular contributed to her divorce and ultimate death.

Interesting observation(about Diana being vulnerable to male attention and being willing to tell all to them)...I remember one of her first male confidants was the doomed bodyguard Barry Mannakee, who was sacked by the Palace for his over familiarity with the Princess, and whom Diana later insisted was "bumped off".

She was also much attracted older women who served as maternal figures...Lady Anabel Goldsmith, Lucia Flecha da Lima, Rosa Lawson...heck even Mother Theresa of Calcutta!

I feel to this day that Andrew Morton and Martin Bashir took the most shameful advantage of her...they literally made their names and fortunes off of Diana's illness.

Tragic.

ETA: I also agree with Vita's observation about William's choice of a wife...except for the ability to dress well, Diana and Kate Middleton are as different as night and day. Kate seems to almost revel in being in the background, and for doing nothing except being William's partner and helpmate. The Palace will have NO problem with her wanting to rebel and strike out on her own, I am almost sure of it.

It's notable also that William chose a wife who comes from a warm, loving united family and that he enjoys spending time with them.
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  #1079  
Old 05-27-2011, 08:25 PM
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I don't believe you 'inherit' anything from a relative except possibly mental disorders like schizophrenia, or bipolar disorder, and anxiety disorders like torrettes syndrome and obsessive compulsive disorder (cousin of tourettes) and some types of depression.

Diana sadly needed a happy, stable, loving home life because she was vulnerable. She didn't get alot of attention either. Some children need to be out there in front getting alot of attention or something goes wrong. People wanted to scream at her to be quiet, don't make waves, just go along with the program because they knew that was the only way she was going to survive in that family. She was so needy emotionally and had so much unfulfilled needs. And married into the totally wrong family for her. It was a disaster. And her husband could not begin to understand her and give her what she needed emotionally. And it's all water under the bridge now. Let's just hope that her children and grandchildren can find happiness for themselves.
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:36 PM
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Yes, that's what I was referring to when I mentioned Diana's genetic inheritance from the Fermoys. There was certainly depression in common there. I'm not convinced that Diana crossed the line into psychosis, but who knows for sure?

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I don't believe you 'inherit' anything from a relative except possibly mental disorders like schizophrenia, or bipolar disorder, and anxiety disorders like torrettes syndrome and obsessive compulsive disorder (cousin of tourettes) and some types of depression.
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