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View Poll Results: When did your opinion of Diana start to change and why?
Morton book (1990) 25 9.80%
War of the Waleses (starting 1990) 20 7.84%
Squidgygate (1992) 12 4.71%
Hewitt affair (1993) 17 6.67%
Charles' interview (1994) 5 1.96%
Panorama interview (1995) 43 16.86%
Phone calls to Oliver Hoare (1994) 14 5.49%
Dodi al-Fayed (1997) 23 9.02%
Other (please explain) 96 37.65%
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

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  #961  
Old 05-03-2011, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellydofc;
So that leads me to believe that Diana was more to blame for the failure of their marriage than she wanted the public to think.
It takes two to make a marriage work and it takes two to make a marriage fail. Both Charles and Diana share equal blame for the failure of their marriage. The sad truth is they both gave up.
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"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
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  #962  
Old 05-03-2011, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
"The children should have had more stability, not a mom running around on yachts. I was particularly critinot going to be marrying merely for love, right?

She would have been happier (and still alive) had she developed a capacity for non-public relationships, and for a different kind of intimacy. It makes me terribly sad, still, that she didn't get a chance to do that (perhaps she would have, had she had more time as a divorcée.
I agree that she should not have been "running around".
However, your interesting comment that your ex husband was so interested in Diana, I have never heard of a man who was the LEAST bit interested in her...[/QUOTE]

I've come across a few (myself included) I'd say her beauty caught my interest first then her life story.
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"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
Diana, the Princess of Wales
  #963  
Old 05-03-2011, 01:34 AM
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I was thinking the same thing while watching the wedding and found myself unsettled by the thought. Diana's death was unbearably sad for her sons, but they seem to have wonderful, loving memories of her to comfort them. Unless Diana had found great personal fulfillment in the years post-1997, I think that she would have been a very difficult mother-in-law. As it is, Kate can study the good things about Diana's time as Princess of Wales without having to deal with the reality of what she was like in her private life.


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Originally Posted by SusanRoberts View Post
While certainly not wishing anyone dead, it is my opinion that William will have a more healthy marriage and that Kate will have a MUCH easier go of it by only having the memory of Diana around at every turn, rather than the real deal.
  #964  
Old 05-03-2011, 02:44 AM
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I know several men who were/are interested in Diana, my own first husband is the one who got me into watching royals - he was fascinated by the pressure put on Charles, at that time, to choose off what American media were calling "The List," and the quest for a certified virgin.

I also think that assuming that Diana would have been a poor mother or mother-in-law had she lived, is a bit mean-spirited. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but some opinions say way more about the person opining than the person opined about.

I wonder, then, do people feel that the only reason William turned out to be such an apparently normal, nice, healthy young man is due to his father's input? If Diana would be a mother-in-law-from-hell, then she couldn't very well be a very loving mother. I believe she was a very loving mother (and that Charles, in his way, is a very loving father - and Camilla is a loving step-mother).

Loving parents accept the new family member into the family.
  #965  
Old 05-03-2011, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
I know several men who were/are interested in Diana, my own first husband is the one who got me into watching royals - he was fascinated by the pressure put on Charles, at that time, to choose off what American media were calling "The List," and the quest for a certified virgin.

I also think that assuming that Diana would have been a poor mother or mother-in-law had she lived, is a bit mean-spirited. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but some opinions say way more about the person opining than the person opined about.

I wonder, then, do people feel that the only reason William turned out to be such an apparently normal, nice, healthy young man is due to his father's input? If Diana would be a mother-in-law-from-hell, then she couldn't very well be a very loving mother. I believe she was a very loving mother (and that Charles, in his way, is a very loving father - and Camilla is a loving step-mother).

Loving parents accept the new family member into the family.

I would describe Queen Alexandra as a loving mother but she was the mother-in-law from hell and I see Diana as much the same. To Diana her sons were her life to a large extent and I think she would have had a lot of trouble dealing with the fact that her sons loved someone else and the fact that the media would have another media darling - who would also end up with the position she wasn't going to have - Queen.
  #966  
Old 05-03-2011, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vita View Post
Please do not think that I do not love Diana, or seek to diminish the influence or major role she played in her children's lives. I have no doubt that she was and is still loved by the people of England and worldwide. I love Diana and as an American woman, I did not at all condemn her actions. I felt that she as completely justified. But Diana was not without her flaws which made her even more endearing to many. I was just like you, and you can click on my screen name for the proof of posts I made years ago defending Diana to the very core of my soul. I always felt she was in the right.

Diana did change the course of history but my point is that I no longer believe that all of her motives were pure or wholly based upon selflessness. I do believe that she did not want her children to be bought up in the old way which is why she worked hard to be a good mother and teach them about being human. But I also believe like any human being, she was also out to stick it to Charles and Co. no matter the cost. Katherine of Argon did not act as a glamourpuss. She fought for her rights until the bitter end, but she did so with grace and class and with the clarity that no matter what her scamp of a husband did, she owed it to God and country to maintain dignity for the crown. That is the revelation that I came to in my altered opinion.

I am only referring to her airing of the royal dirty laundry that she purposely would leak to press and the Martin Bashir interview. Whatever hell Diana chose to give Prince Charles and his family in private is her right. She was totally justified, IMO. However to air the business so publicly or help it be brought to light, I am afraid was not a very good example for her children. William and Harry are far more discreet and I am sorry but I give that to the Queen and the Prince.

Also, Diana's changing history was not simply because of her positives but the negatives between her and Charles. The Duke has waited this long to claim his bride in order to help prepare her the way his mother wasn't. To give her time to really decide whether this was the right life for her. He did the right thing. And God bless him for seeing the errors of his parents' ways and choosing to act accordingly.
I agree, Vita. I loved Diana, but like the rest of us, she was not perfect. She was an excellent mother in many ways, but due to the wounds of her own childhood, she made some mistakes--for instance, bringing William into the middle of her marital problems with Prince Charles. If you need to talk to someone about them, you find another adult, not one of your children, especially a young child as he was at the time.

I also agree about airing the dirty laundry in the marriage, and both she and Prince Charles made this mistake. Both of them revealed things about their marriage that I imagine were very hurtful and damaging to Prince William and Prince Harry. I think both of them wanted to get back at each other so badly that they didn't stop to think of what damage these revelations might do to the boys.

Diana was a wonderful woman in many ways, as Prince Charles is a wonderful man in many ways. However, there are good things and bad things about all of us. We should be careful about putting people up on pedestals, because you can miss knowing the person as the really interesting person that they really are.

I think both Prince William and Prince Harry have traits from both parents, and both parents should be proud of the boys that they raised. I think they did a wonderful job.
  #967  
Old 05-03-2011, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Charles is and was a good father. What you don't seem to understand is that he always had a mistress. To some that is not acceptable. Diana was one of those people. She, foolishly, by some standards, hoped to have a real husband. She got a philanderer, from the beginning. It is easy to viilfy a dead person. One of fragile hopes. The RF have standards that exclude them from the real world, where people take reponsibility. Yes, he and Camiila are happy. He should have married her, but he was manipulated by His Family and ruined another's life. Camilla was the other woman. How easily we forget.

So Diana was lying when she said that she and Charles were happy in the early years and that Charles went back to Camilla in 1986. Diana's version of events is 1986 and not earlier.

I always love people who know more than Diana about the state of her marriage.
  #968  
Old 05-03-2011, 06:59 AM
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If Diana had lived, I think she would have been able to accept help and love from her sons (and a bit from Charles as well). I seem all as craving to have a happy family life and that's what Camilla gives them. I believe a more mature and grown-up Diana would have been able to see that love means caring for the others more than for herself and as she was a really caring person, she IMHO would have been happy when she really got to feel that the others wanted her to be a part of the family.

She was striving so hard to be a good person and to overcome her own faults, so I think she would have been able to overcome old resentments and start anew with Charles and her sons. But when you are part of a family, you open up your arms to new members, so I think she would have received Catherine warmly and would have been fast in letting love grow between them.
  #969  
Old 05-03-2011, 09:25 AM
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[QUOTE=PrincessKaimi;1247572]
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but some opinions say way more about the person opining than the person opined about.
QUOTE]

I agree, very insightful Kaimi.
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"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
Diana, the Princess of Wales
  #970  
Old 05-03-2011, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wa3kittiees View Post

sincerely, I wished she had found someone to spend her life with & could have lived happy years out of sight -- as much as possible being the mother of the princes
but part of me also wonders if she would have been happy without the attention of the press
I doubt she would; she loved the attention too much.

Diana craved attention, complete devotion from the people around her. When they failed to provide it (and such failure was inevitable) she dropped them and moved on.
Who were he friends, in the end? Just about every person who'd ever been close to her was said to be estranged at the time of her death: Elton John, Lady Jane, Sarah Ferguson, etc., etc.

I don't believe she would ever have been happy, but the divorce accelerated what became a downward spiral. (I've read that she truly did not want the divorce, but the Queen had had enough of the scandals and insisted they part).

It's sad she died so young, but I think if she'd lived, her life would be as sad and lonely as Princess Margaret's became.
  #971  
Old 05-03-2011, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Who were he friends, in the end?
Luchia De Flecha, Lana Marks, Jemima Kahn, Lady Anabel Goldsmith, Rosa Monckton, Lady Elsa Bowker, and there were some others. At the time of death she and Elton John reconnected over their friend Gianni Versace's murder. And yes at the time she wasn't on the best of terms with her sister Jane and Sarah, Duches of York and her mother.
I believe most of her friends said there were times when Diana was difficult and needy but there were times when she was caring and kind but in there times of need she gave them a shoulder to cry on.
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"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
Diana, the Princess of Wales
  #972  
Old 05-03-2011, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I doubt she would; she loved the attention too much.

Diana craved attention, complete devotion from the people around her. When they failed to provide it (and such failure was inevitable) she dropped them and moved on.
Who were he friends, in the end? Just about every person who'd ever been close to her was said to be estranged at the time of her death: Elton John, Lady Jane, Sarah Ferguson, etc., etc.

I don't believe she would ever have been happy, but the divorce accelerated what became a downward spiral. (I've read that she truly did not want the divorce, but the Queen had had enough of the scandals and insisted they part).
I have read this too but if that was the case then she should have kept her mouth shut and never washed her dirty linen in public. Once the Morton book was out there divorce was inevitable and anyone with half a brain would know that. She wanted divorce but on her terms and she wanted everyone to think that she didn't because then she could play the victim card that she did so well - in my opinion. That comment was just a further example of her manipulation of the people around her and the public in general and further evidence of the nasty side of her character.

Quote:
It's sad she died so young, but I think if she'd lived, her life would be as sad and lonely as Princess Margaret's became.
Very true - by now she would be a very lonely figure and a figure pitied if not despised I think.

Even that summer the press were turning on her in many ways - even the week before there were headlines like 'How many holidays does one person need in a summer?' Some of the papers even had to ditch their planned headlines for the next day because they were again scathing of her - but in death they returned her to goddess like status - to divert attention from themselves and the public's culpability in the her death.
  #973  
Old 05-03-2011, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lexi21 View Post
Live is to short for her, but the story behind her is to long
Sadly life is very short in general.
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"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
Diana, the Princess of Wales
  #974  
Old 05-03-2011, 08:30 PM
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Actually, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt in most situations. I'm not one to make negative comments unless I feel particularly strongly about something. It's not so much that I'm "mean-spirited" as that I saw the way that Diana used the media to continually draw attention to herself to the detriment of other people and their reputations. She had a hard time keeping long-term friendships and was at various times on the outs with different members of her family. I took Diana's side vigorously during "the War of the Waleses," as a matter of fact; it's only since learning more about her private dealings with people--and with William--that I've changed my mind somewhat. I think that she would have found it very hard to step back from William's private life as he matured, and that includes his marriage.


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Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
I also think that assuming that Diana would have been a poor mother or mother-in-law had she lived, is a bit mean-spirited. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but some opinions say way more about the person opining than the person opined about.
  #975  
Old 05-03-2011, 08:36 PM
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Yes, I agree. Queen Alexandra is a good example of my opinion, except that I think that Alexandra was a more forgiving, more "grounded" person.


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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I would describe Queen Alexandra as a loving mother but she was the mother-in-law from hell and I see Diana as much the same.
  #976  
Old 05-03-2011, 08:46 PM
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It's quite possible that no one William dated might have lived up to Princess Diana's standards. Some parents are like that. Unless they influence the relationship or try to play match maker, no one lives up to their standards. I don't know if Princess Diana would be this way (hard to say). If she was a reasonable person, she would get to know Kate and I believe that she would like her.
  #977  
Old 05-03-2011, 09:34 PM
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There were really a lot of parallels between Alexandra and Diana: both were beautiful and adored, both found it hard to accept that their husbands craved the company of another woman.

And both were adoring mothers, yet perhaps too doting for comfort?
The term smotherlove comes to mind.
  #978  
Old 05-03-2011, 09:50 PM
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I agree that Diana would have had a sad life if she had lived. She was too much of a paranoid black and white thinker to stay on good terms with anyone, and this would have been magnified by her constant need to be heard. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that she could have suicided. I shudder at the thought of saying anyone is the type to suicide (this isn't true at all) but she had alot of the warning signs (which I will say now, are not always there); self harm, emotional unpredictability, and a refusal to get help. She also had a need to make people feel ashamed of themselves. This is only a thought, though. We'll never really know.

On the issue of her hypothetical relationship with Catherine, I can't say she would have disliked Kate as a person, but she definately would have "warned" her against marrying into The Royal Family, which would have caused alot of friction. She might also have been willing for her Sons to give up their places in the line of succession, as their Royal roles increased. I know she had no problems with them being Princes, when her marraige was breaking down, or after it ended, but they were only young.

I'm sorry to be morbid, but having found out more about Diana, these hypothetical scenarios are simply what come to mind.
  #979  
Old 05-03-2011, 09:51 PM
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Diana did the 1995 interview as a way to get back at those who she perceived as doing her wrong. Much of what she said was pretty much known (by that time most people knew that Prince Charles had cheated on her). She felt like she was second fiddle (which would not be surprising). There was nothing really in that interview that surprised me at all. At first I wondered if she wasn't going to reveal some bombshell something really shocking, but there was no smoking gun or bombshell.

I really felt sorry for her in a way. She went against the status quo which had been in effect for centuries. She had nothing to lose because what was going to happen to her. If someone in the royal family filed a criminal or civil complaint against her for what she said in that interview, they would look bad or look like they were persecuting her or trying to shut her up. Any legal or civil action that anyone took against her would make that person look bad.

She knew what she was doing and probably had thought about it before doing the interview. It doesn't seem that it was done on impulse although you might think so given that she looked like she had just come out of the gym or came back from taking a walk (the outfit and the lack of makeup on) made me think this when I first saw it.
  #980  
Old 05-03-2011, 10:02 PM
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She rehearsed and then stopped the tape when she wanted to change something. There's a documentary about the making of the interview and all the planning and secrecy that went into it. The interview was done in the evening, I believe, after she gave all her staff the night off. Her eyes were made-up to look very intense, I think; but she looked rather pale otherwise. Interesting that she was wearing the sort of outfit that lawyers encourage their clients to wear during divorce hearings: dark and modest.


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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
She knew what she was doing and probably had thought about it before doing the interview. It doesn't seem that it was done on impulse although you might think so given that she looked like she had just come out of the gym or came back from taking a walk (the outfit and the lack of makeup on) made me think this when I first saw it.
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