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View Poll Results: When did your opinion of Diana start to change and why?
Morton book (1990) 25 9.80%
War of the Waleses (starting 1990) 20 7.84%
Squidgygate (1992) 12 4.71%
Hewitt affair (1993) 17 6.67%
Charles' interview (1994) 5 1.96%
Panorama interview (1995) 43 16.86%
Phone calls to Oliver Hoare (1994) 14 5.49%
Dodi al-Fayed (1997) 23 9.02%
Other (please explain) 96 37.65%
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

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  #881  
Old 09-13-2010, 05:19 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
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After the Panorama Interview the Queen wrote to both of them insisting on a divorce. The Panorama interview was the final straw for the Queen and Diana had to go, finally.
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  #882  
Old 09-13-2010, 07:37 PM
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IMO Charles and Diana would have divorced either way. The marriage was a PR disaster for the BRF and everyone by 1995 knew the marriage had serious problems. There would have been no point for Diana to reconcile with Charles, the marriage was causing too much pain and embarrassment. IMO the divorce was long coming, with the book, Charles and finally Diana's interview it became way too much. I am very happy that marriage ended. Charles and Diana were much happier once it was over.
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  #883  
Old 09-13-2010, 08:00 PM
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Yes, it was at the point where they'd have to divorce. The only other thing possible was if they truly reconciled, did away with outside--ahem--interests, and told their friends to stop talking as well.

Some people think that HM was cruel to tell them to divorce. But the marriage had come to the point that it was causing dissension in the nation; people were picking sides all over the place. Perhaps the Prime Minister advised the Queen to tell them to divorce for that matter.
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  #884  
Old 09-14-2010, 05:54 PM
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I just finished reading William's Princess chapter on Teen Icon. I believe the author Robert Jobson got the true picture of the princes especially Prince William and how they relate to their parent's marriage and divorce.

Jobson says Prince William wanted his mother and father happy, so he would have a peaceful life. The author did not mention the Panorama Interview, but other situations with his parents public fighting. The princes acted differently handling the fighting. Prince William rebelled and Prince Henry closed up.

The book says that Prince William learned about his parent's feud when in school by watching TV in his bodyguards room. The school band the news. Prince William was also Princess Diana's support. The book stated that she told her friends that William was her soul mate and very needy of him, like a husband. The author said that happens a lot with mothers who don't get along with their husbands.

Something interesting to me was the statement by the author saying Prince William would not want a girlfriend too needy of him (Princess Diana was too much), but his nature is to be protective of family and friends. I think Kate fits his preferences perfectly.

What clues me that this author got it right is the princes wanting their parents happy, so they will have a peaceful life. Prince Henry made a public statement concerning the marriage of Prince Charles to Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall. He stated that his father is happy now and both he and his bother are happy for them.
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  #885  
Old 09-28-2010, 10:28 AM
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Iluvbertie

The difference between journalists and schoalrs is that the latter vigorously defend academic rigour and dismiss gossip and simple hatefulness for a more honest picture.
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  #886  
Old 09-28-2010, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hereditary Thane View Post
Iluvbertie

The difference between journalists and schoalrs is that the latter vigorously defend academic rigour and dismiss gossip and simple hatefulness for a more honest picture.

I know the difference, being a History teacher but...any true historian who dismisses gossip isn't getting the 'full picture' anyway as the journalists also do a lot or research into what the feelings are of the public at the time and thus jounalistic writings are valid sources to gain views and opinions to add to the more rigorous academic research. A true historian these days wants to get the full picture as much as possible and that includes the versions of the people AND the opinions of others including those whose opinions are full of hatefulness as that is a valid opinion and has to be investigated to find out why the writer is so full of hatefulness just as someone who is all in favour of someone/something has to be evaluated to find out why they are so positive. In fact any decent researcher who doesn't look at all possible sources and opinions, both for and against, is a poor researcher and not a good one. It is essential for historians to read and use formal and informal sources - e.g. going back in time to researching attitudes to the outbreak of WWI historians look at the enlistment figures, the speeches in Parliament, the letters to the newspapers and the photos taken of the crowds cheering the announcement - some of these would be seen as gossip and jounalistic reporting but a good historian would be using both the formal and informal opinions to get the full picture. Just because the gossip magazines and the journalists are writing today doesn't mean that they are to be dismissed but rather evaluated for reliability in the same way that a more 'learned' treatise is written and if deemed useful, reliable and valuable used and if not ignored - any decent historian would do that of the past and increasingly of the present - it is certainly how we teach the children at NSW High Schools to be historians.
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  #887  
Old 09-28-2010, 07:08 PM
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For me, it was the the Charles interview....I didn't believe the Morton book at first but after Charles open his mouth about Camilia

Diana on the other hand should have stop the war right there she continued to talk and did her on tv interview, after that she lost me somewhat
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  #888  
Old 09-28-2010, 07:26 PM
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By the early 1990's it was evident to the average person that their marriage was not working out very well. When I watched the 1995 interview with Diana, I was imaging in my head what the Queen or Prince Charles must have thought. To say they were not pleased would be an understatement.
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  #889  
Old 09-29-2010, 04:05 AM
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Obviously Diana didn't think taking a lover at about the same time as Charles took up with Camilla (my source for the timing is Diana's Panorama Interview - she says Charles went back to Camilla in 1986 and that is when she started with Hewitt - assuming he was the first one she actually cheated with) was a problem for the marriage.
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  #890  
Old 09-29-2010, 03:26 PM
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True. There was more than enough hypocrisy on both sides in that debacle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Obviously Diana didn't think taking a lover at about the same time as Charles took up with Camilla (my source for the timing is Diana's Panorama Interview - she says Charles went back to Camilla in 1986 and that is when she started with Hewitt - .
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  #891  
Old 10-01-2010, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Obviously Diana didn't think taking a lover at about the same time as Charles took up with Camilla (my source for the timing is Diana's Panorama Interview - she says Charles went back to Camilla in 1986 and that is when she started with Hewitt - assuming he was the first one she actually cheated with) was a problem for the marriage.
I thought Diana, Princess of Wales said in the Panorama Interview that by her woman's intuition she felt that Prince Charles was cheating. Remember, Prince Charles moved to High Grove permanently before 1986. I think if there is three in a marriage, then someone is left out. If my husband moved out I would think I was a separated but maybe not officially. I blame them both for their marriage failure. But I blame Prince Charles mostly because he could not give up the Duchess of Cornwall. He said it was non negotiable.
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  #892  
Old 10-01-2010, 06:09 PM
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She did say that in the Panorama interview and the next question or the one that lead to it was about the timing of that change - 1986 was her answer. She also went on to admit that it was 1986 that she started her affair with Hewitt -but who was first isn't clear. What is clear is that they both started cheating at about the same time - 1986.

The other thing is was after 1986 that Charles started to stay more at Highgrove and Diana at Kensington (that though was also because he was/is more a country person and Diana was more a city person). This is also agreed upon by both of them - when they really established separate homes.

The non-negotiable comment was made after the divorce not during the marriage.

The timeline is important - not everything was said and done at the same time.

Both started cheating on the other in 1986 according to Diana and Charles only statement on date was after the marriage had 'irretrievably broken down, both of us having tried'. It always amazes me that people overlook Diana's own dating of when Charles started cheating and also assume that Charles' is lying when he makes the comments he made.

The important thing to me is that Charles is the happy Prince of Wales is was in my youth rather than the morose PoW he was through most of the 80s and 90s.
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  #893  
Old 10-01-2010, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
I blame them both for their marriage failure.
I agree its interesting when some people souly blame either Charles or Diana for the failure of the marriage. With the divorce we saw two people finally happy and able to repair their relationshp and becoming friends again. It was great to see the Princess have such happiness in her final year.
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"I think the biggest disease the world suffers from in this day and age is the disease of people feeling unloved."
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  #894  
Old 10-02-2010, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The important thing to me is that Charles is the happy Prince of Wales is was in my youth rather than the morose PoW he was through most of the 80s and 90s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhon View Post
It was great to see the Princess have such happiness in her final year.
Yes, to both of the above quotes. They both were much happier after the divorce.
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  #895  
Old 10-03-2010, 02:42 AM
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I've come to appreaciate and respect both individuals over the years. So in the end, while we did want that fairy tale story to end with a happily ever after , it really was better for them to go their own separate ways, after all I think the only thing any of us here really wanted was to see both of them equally happy.
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  #896  
Old 10-09-2010, 08:19 AM
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I put other because I am still learning of Diana's life, and I feel that she was a flawed yet misunderstood person.

For one why should someone automatically that someone is being needy for wanting their husband, it was her husband obviously he wasn't showing her any attention!

Also is there any actual proof of affairs, I'm not saying she's a saint, but other then maybe Barry Mannakee (spelling) again i'm still new but is there proof she really did cheat? As for that, granted it wasn't right for her to cheat either but, what do you expect her husband was obviously cheating on her since day one!

I think that going around and doing things for people doesn't always mean your doing it for publicity. Maybe it truly made her happy and gave her something to do.

Again i'm still new but I feel like there is way to much negativity directed towards her when if anything they should maybe be both blamed.
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  #897  
Old 10-09-2010, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDiana View Post
I put other because I am still learning of Diana's life, and I feel that she was a flawed yet misunderstood person.

For one why should someone automatically that someone is being needy for wanting their husband, it was her husband obviously he wasn't showing her any attention!

Also is there any actual proof of affairs, I'm not saying she's a saint, but other then maybe Barry Mannakee (spelling) again i'm still new but is there proof she really did cheat? As for that, granted it wasn't right for her to cheat either but, what do you expect her husband was obviously cheating on her since day one!

I think that going around and doing things for people doesn't always mean your doing it for publicity. Maybe it truly made her happy and gave her something to do.

Again i'm still new but I feel like there is way to much negativity directed towards her when if anything they should maybe be both blamed.
I think as we watch William and Harry grow in their lives, we're going to be seeing the best of both parents. Its the same with the York girls and Anne's kids.

I've flip flopped a lot on my opinion on Diana and I've really not registered a vote yet. I've posted yes.. but I've not really voted yet. There is a lot about Diana that I wish I was like and a lot about Diana I'm glad I'm not. In the long run I've never ever met Diana and know what only I've learned from the years and books and what folks say here. Her life was so scrutinized and followed that I think she had the bigger fishbowl than the entire BRF for the past century. '

What she did have was I think have a genuine interest in the human condition. Perhaps her childhood had a lot to do with that. When you need certain things, you find you're empathic to sensing those needs in other people.
Whether it be AIDS, bulimia, smallpox or just hungry on the streets, I do think she sensed the need. This is why I think Centrepoint is so important to William as is his work as a SAR. It reminds me of a song that's hauntingly appropiate here and to me it reflects both Diana and her sons.

Streets of London

Have you seen the old man
In the closed-down market
Kicking up the paper,
with his worn out shoes?
In his eyes you see no pride
Hand held loosely at his side
Yesterday's paper telling yesterday's news

Chorus: So how can you tell me you're lonely,
And say for you that the sun don't shine?
Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of London
I'll show you something to make you change your mind

Have you seen the old girl
Who walks the streets of London
Dirt in her hair and her clothes in rags?
She's no time for talking,
She just keeps right on walking
Carrying her home in two carrier bags.

Chorus

In the all night cafe
At a quarter past eleven
Same old man is sitting there on his own
Looking at the world
Over the rim of his tea-cup,
Each tea lasts an hour
Then he wanders home alone

Chorus

Have you seen the old man
Outside the Seaman's Mission
Memory fading with the medal ribbons that he wears
In our winter city,
The rain cries a little pity
For one more forgotten hero
And a world that doesn't care

Chorus

Now... on the other side.. and yes we need to remember there are two sides.

The marriage between Charles and Diana didn't work period. But one thing they both excelled at was being parents.

As far as the cheating goes we can't say with proof that Charles was cheating from day one. Charles remained close friends with both Camilla and Andrew after their marriage and is even godfather to their eldest son Tom.
Camilla and Charles I think have always had the natural intimacy of being close friends. IMO its that intimacy of being close friends that really set Diana on edge as its the intimacy she wished she had with Charles. The cheating part on both sides I do believe happened after there just wasn't any way they'd achieve intimacy.

What I did find touching is that Charles cared enough to travel to Paris to escort Diana home. He didn't have to. Charles is not the monster I think in that fiasco of a marriage. The marriage failed because of two people but the good thing is the sons carry the best of both.
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  #898  
Old 10-09-2010, 09:27 AM
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I agree that it was nice of him to accompany her body back to England. It proves he must have cared for regardless of everything that occured while and after they were married.

Has he ever visted her grave? And what was his opinion of her after her death does he speak of her?
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  #899  
Old 10-09-2010, 09:47 AM
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I think Charles cared for Diana when they married and fell in love with her afterwards. It was kind of like he fell in love with the Diana image. Remember what Rita Hayworth said back in the day....Men fall in love with Gilda (a character she played in a great movie) and wake up with me (which waking up with Rita Hayworth wasn't a bad thing but you get the idea).

I think that Charles and Camilla had a love that evolved into a great friendship and Diana was threatened by that. She wasnt the first and wont be the last not to understand a woman/man relationship that isn't sexual. Camilla and Charles had a great history and affection that withstood both of their marriages. Now if Camilla wasn't having some issues or felt that something was missing in her marriage...well maybe she wouldn't have turned to Charles and vice versa.

I think Diana sought out love from other men because she wasn't getting it (or believed she wasn getting it) from her husband. For me personally the timelines on who cheated first dont matter. Although one can certainly argue the merits and differences of a sexual affair with someone outside of your marriage versus a love affair with someone outside of your marriage. There is a difference but at this point its moot. Two wrongs don't make a right.

By the time of her death, both Charles and Diana had reached a turning point in their relationship where they could be friends. Diana was also accepting of Camilla's role in Charles's life.

Charles too me look devastated when he brought her back from France. It could be because of his sons, because he and Diana were friends, or whatever. Just devastated IMO.

Nonetheless I still have a fondess for Diana. I just accept her with her faults. She wasn't a perfect person.
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  #900  
Old 10-09-2010, 12:06 PM
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Nonetheless I still have a fondess for Diana. I just accept her with her faults. She wasn't a perfect person.
I too. Does a perfect person even exist in this day in age?
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Diana, the Princess of Wales
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