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View Poll Results: When did your opinion of Diana start to change and why?
Morton book (1990) 25 9.80%
War of the Waleses (starting 1990) 20 7.84%
Squidgygate (1992) 12 4.71%
Hewitt affair (1993) 17 6.67%
Charles' interview (1994) 5 1.96%
Panorama interview (1995) 43 16.86%
Phone calls to Oliver Hoare (1994) 14 5.49%
Dodi al-Fayed (1997) 23 9.02%
Other (please explain) 96 37.65%
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

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  #701  
Old 11-02-2008, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhon11234 View Post
Because she was human and made bad choices like the rest of us.

But that is what I don't get - they adore her for making mistakes but condemn Charles for being human and making mistakes - sounds like hypocrisy to me.

Making mistakes and being human are NOT qualities that make me adore someone - as everyone makes mistakes and is human.

What did she do that was so extraordinary - she got married - big deal, most people do, she had children, again most people do, she worked, so what most people do, she wore expensive clothes, wouldn't we all if we could afford it - I just don't get what she did that made people adore her - she lied, cheated, manipulated the press but still people adored her, she trashed her husband every chance she got, she tried to destroy an entire family, into which she had married, and still people adore her - really I can't see anything that she did that was worth any form of admiration or adoration at all - rather I remember the lies, the damage she did to her husband and herself, the damage she must have inflicted on her children (and must still be doing due the constant rehashing of her life that they have to put up with), the complete nastiness and selfishness that came into the royal family and the world as people looked up to her.
Give me the 70s and a hard-working, respected royal family anyday to the one she left behind with its spin doctors trying to overcome her damage to this day.
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  #702  
Old 11-02-2008, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
But that is what I don't get - they adore her for making mistakes but condemn Charles for being human and making mistakes - sounds like hypocrisy to me.
Not every fan of Diana's thinks that way. I think Charles is very good man and father. He made bad and good choices in his life. But I don't souly judge him and base his character on his faults.
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  #703  
Old 11-02-2008, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
But that is what I don't get - they adore her for making mistakes but condemn Charles for being human and making mistakes - sounds like hypocrisy to me.

Making mistakes and being human are NOT qualities that make me adore someone - as everyone makes mistakes and is human.

What did she do that was so extraordinary - she got married - big deal, most people do, she had children, again most people do, she worked, so what most people do, she wore expensive clothes, wouldn't we all if we could afford it - I just don't get what she did that made people adore her - she lied, cheated, manipulated the press but still people adored her, she trashed her husband every chance she got, she tried to destroy an entire family, into which she had married, and still people adore her - really I can't see anything that she did that was worth any form of admiration or adoration at all - rather I remember the lies, the damage she did to her husband and herself, the damage she must have inflicted on her children (and must still be doing due the constant rehashing of her life that they have to put up with), the complete nastiness and selfishness that came into the royal family and the world as people looked up to her.
Give me the 70s and a hard-working, respected royal family anyday to the one she left behind with its spin doctors trying to overcome her damage to this day.
I would love to put what a wonderful post, to you and jcbcode99, but as you probably know, I have said I will not post on these threads because it upsets too many people, so my lips are sealed, hands tied, silenced!
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  #704  
Old 11-02-2008, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I would love to put what a wonderful post, to you and jcbcode99, but as you probably know, I have said I will not post on these threads because it upsets too many people, so my lips are sealed, hands tied, silenced!
me too i cant poste any thing in this thread like you skydragon , and for the same reason! what i can say is that my opinion was the same after and before the divorce and the scandale,im sorry , but i dont like her caractere!
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  #705  
Old 11-02-2008, 09:30 AM
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My opinion swung from Charles to Diana, and I came to the conclusion that they were both wrong and right, and most important of all, were both human beings. I do think that Charles is probably more distant with his affections, and Diana had a slight boarderline personality disorder which no doubt resulted in her unstable background and caused her the need to be always everybody's favourite. On the other hand they both have/had gr8 sides to their personality.
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  #706  
Old 11-02-2008, 04:11 PM
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This is actually one of my favourite stories from the legend of the "Royal Romance."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunpoppy View Post
Someone in the press told the story of how Diana hid behind a tree to avoid the press but was watching them with a compact mirror.
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  #707  
Old 11-02-2008, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
.....(and must still be doing due the constant rehashing of her life that they have to put up with

I think it is a bit of a stretch to blame her for what is being rehashed in her name ten years after her death. She doesn't really have a say in the matter anymore.
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  #708  
Old 11-02-2008, 05:27 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
I realize I sound harsh--but she deserves harsh words.
Not to comment on your specific post, jcbcode99, but so many people (on both sides of the Diana-debate) seem to continue to think of Diana in the present tense and to insist that her reputation either needs to be defended or dragged down. I suppose her lasting legacy, on both sides of the spectrum, is that people won't let her rest in peace. I could say I have equally little respect and/or interest in Charles, Diana, AND Camilla at the present time, but I doubt that position would be accepted. However, it's true.
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  #709  
Old 11-02-2008, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I would love to put what a wonderful post, to you and jcbcode99, but as you probably know, I have said I will not post on these threads because it upsets too many people, so my lips are sealed, hands tied, silenced!
Who said that?
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  #710  
Old 11-02-2008, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
Not to comment on your specific post, jcbcode99, but so many people (on both sides of the Diana-debate) seem to continue to think of Diana in the present tense and to insist that her reputation either needs to be defended or dragged down. I suppose her lasting legacy, on both sides of the spectrum, is that people won't let her rest in peace. I could say I have equally little respect and/or interest in Charles, Diana, AND Camilla at the present time, but I doubt that position would be accepted. However, it's true.
[my bolding]
I fully share your views. I fail to understand need to bash or defend the memory of the late Diana, Princess of Wales. She made some human mistakes and displayed wrong judgments about certain situations. So did Prince Charles. Each key participant in this never-ending saga deserves little or no respect, when it comes to dealing with deeply personal matters.
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  #711  
Old 11-02-2008, 07:49 PM
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Al Bina you are quite correct. There is this never ending critique of a dead woman. Yes, like all humans she made mistakes. The living adversaries of this saga made mistakes, too. Some bigger. But today is today and not yesterday. The dead should rest in peace, but not for those with an agenda to try and push the non-existent perfection of other evil doers.
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  #712  
Old 11-02-2008, 08:25 PM
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Since Death is getting terribly noisy, it's time for a warning. We are not here to discuss whether or not we should blame or praise dead people for what they did. Nor are we here to judge people's mistakes in life, no matter if they are dead or alive. It's a little too late to say we can't discuss about someone because she is no longer here to 'defend herself'; we have a whole subforum dedicated to that person and let alone, this 36 page thread.

So can we please stop and go back to the discussion.

TheTruth,
British Forums Moderator.
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  #713  
Old 11-02-2008, 09:17 PM
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I suppose my opinion of her never did change just got lower but I am an optimist and I hope that had she lived to maturity ( it takes longer for some) she would have been an excellant human being.
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  #714  
Old 11-02-2008, 09:37 PM
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Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the topic of this particular thread was "When did your opinion of Diana change and why?"--so, allow me to take a moment and dissect that statement for better overall understanding:
"When did your opinon of Diana change?" simple enough, name a time, event, or series of events which changed an opinion regarding the late Princess of Wales.
"And why?" A little more complicated but it asked for an explanation of why your opinion changed.
And yet, when a poster does exactly that, they are lambasted for offering their opinion, which was requested in the first place. The whole topic is somewhat hypocritcal then, is it not?

The fact that this is a thread dedicated to the topic which asks a question is simple enough to understand. If there are members who do not want to "engage" in the discussion then there is no need to visit the thread. Members, not only myself, who do post on the topic, looking for a lively discussion, need not be subjected to constant criticism for offering an opinion on the topic--which is about when opinions changed about Diana. It is not "bashing her memory" because I believe most preface their comments by saying that she did some good work and was a good mom. All I, and other posters, have done was state specific reasons opinions of Diana changed from positive to negative-- per the request of the thread topic. I believe I ended my post by stating that she was begining to mature and redeem herself towards the end of her life. We cannot judge or discuss her based on what she might have done--we can only discuss what we know she actually did.
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  #715  
Old 11-02-2008, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the topic of this particular thread was "When did your opinion of Diana change and why?"--so, allow me to take a moment and dissect that statement for better overall understanding:
"When did your opinon of Diana change?" simple enough, name a time, event, or series of events which changed an opinion regarding the late Princess of Wales.
"And why?" A little more complicated but it asked for an explanation of why your opinion changed.
And yet, when a poster does exactly that, they are lambasted for offering their opinion, which was requested in the first place. The whole topic is somewhat hypocritcal then, is it not?
Not unless the person doing the lambasting was the one originally asking the question. Which, so far, it hasn't been. I know there are people who'd prefer that we didn't have this sort of topic under discussion, but as long as the participants are following the forum rules, the moderators don't have a problem with it, as TheTruth has already pointed out.
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  #716  
Old 11-03-2008, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Who said that?
I did after I was informed by a moderator, that I was the reason people did not post on any of the threads, backed up a few posts later by none other than yourself!
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  #717  
Old 11-03-2008, 07:12 AM
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Some people in the forum are so young, they only became aware of Diana when she died so they have to base their opinion on a dead woman. Also invariably after someone dies, some information comes forth that for whatever reason didn't appear when they were alive and that can change opinions too.

Even with no new information, people are more comfortable speaking critically of the dead because the dead person can no longer be hurt by what is said of them. If we overall like a person, its harder to criticize them when they're alive because its like telling your friend she's fat. But if your friend dies from complications of being overweight, its quite natural to say, gee, I wish she would have taken care of herself and lost weight.

Already we saw some more criticism of the Queen Mother after she died, so no matter how discreet someone is, there are chances that after death, something is going to come out that will surprise some people.

I personally think its more objective to judge a person after they've died because we can see their whole life. I really don't think its fair to judge the younger royals like William and Harry, and especially Beatrice and Eugenie because they have their whole lives ahead of them and its anybody's guess what they will make of it. But that's just my own personal opinion.

However, I think I posted my answer to this question some pages back, my opinion started to change when Diana was still alive and it was when I was in Germany in the mid-Eighties and I started reading some accounts of how she upstaged Charles in certain events. The press then was overly positive about her and about the marriage so I wasn't influenced by what they were saying. It was interesting that my friend read the same articles and came to a totally different conclusion, more in line with the editorial view of the papers.

So people can read the same things and come to totally different conclusions.
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  #718  
Old 11-03-2008, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimebear View Post
I think it is a bit of a stretch to blame her for what is being rehashed in her name ten years after her death. She doesn't really have a say in the matter anymore.

However, had she not done the actions she did that cause people to rehash her life they wouldn't actually have to put up with the rehashing - her actions and behaviour led to the continuing discussions and the contining questioning of their father - so yes she is responsible. Had she not done the things she did then there wouldn't be any rehashing to do so they wouldn't have to hear it from people who never knew her but who have an opinion.

e.g. how many kids would like to know that a forum like this is taking place about their mother? Wouldn't they like to see it go away but they know it won't because of what their mother did? Wouldn't they like to just remember her as they knew her without constantly hearing people say things like those being said here? But why are we discussing it? Because of her actions and words during her lifetime so therefore she is responsible for the things still being said about her and therefore the impact on her sons is still there.
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  #719  
Old 11-03-2008, 03:48 PM
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I don't think it's just that, though. There's certainly some of that going on, but there are too many people who can't resist the temptation to make money from celebrities, particularly dead ones, and who aren't above making stuff up if it helps them push whatever they're selling.

I agree that Diana's actions in using the press were part of what made her so accessible and gave people an excuse to invade her private life both before and after her death, but I think some of what's going on now, where people are coming out of the woodwork to write yet more lurid stuff about her and justify it with "well she asked for it" are behaving in a pretty reprehensible way. Not that it's being helped by all the people queuing up to buy the stuff they write, but that's always the way these things seem to work.
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  #720  
Old 11-03-2008, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
However, had she not done the actions she did that cause people to rehash her life they wouldn't actually have to put up with the rehashing - her actions and behaviour led to the continuing discussions and the contining questioning of their father - so yes she is responsible. Had she not done the things she did then there wouldn't be any rehashing to do so they wouldn't have to hear it from people who never knew her but who have an opinion.
I disagree. I don't think you can make her responsible for her apparition in the headlines today. If we keep rehashing, as you say, it's not because she's Diana, it's because she's famous. And mind you, most of the news coming up today are mostly gossips and stories to sell papers. For example, the sex claim with Paul Burrell; it'd be wrong to blame her for that when nobody knows if it's true. All you see today when her name appears is because a few are still using her as their cash cow. It will always be the same thing for famous dead people.
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