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View Poll Results: When did your opinion of Diana start to change and why?
Morton book (1990) 25 9.80%
War of the Waleses (starting 1990) 20 7.84%
Squidgygate (1992) 12 4.71%
Hewitt affair (1993) 17 6.67%
Charles' interview (1994) 5 1.96%
Panorama interview (1995) 43 16.86%
Phone calls to Oliver Hoare (1994) 14 5.49%
Dodi al-Fayed (1997) 23 9.02%
Other (please explain) 96 37.65%
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

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  #681  
Old 01-27-2008, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
My initial reaction is to say that this highlights the fact that Anne has been unfairly treated in the comparison with Diana because she was the real achiever, the one who had been working hard behind the scenes doing a real job to help the disadvantaged children, whereas Diana just swanned in, smiled, scooped up a child and had a photo taken, had a few words with the people running the establishment, smiled a lot for the cameras, and swanned out again moving onto her next project without doing anything of any real benefit. Well, I said it anyway because that is how I feel.

However I think I am being a bit unfair to Diana, because I do think she really cared but lacked the ability to do more than what she did. I've read that when she was young - I think it was in around her very early teens - she would visit nursing homes and help the residents, genuinely doing nice things for them and demonstrating real compassion. That's rare for young people, and it made me think Diana really had a good heart and cared. However I think she was limited by her intelligence and education to doing what she did. She wasn't a deep thinker and didn't take an intellectual approach to solving problems, and we know she didn't ask for advice. She thought hugging was important, and that if people were sad or sick you gave them a hug and that made them feel better. I am not a hugger, and when I'm sick I don't want to talk to nosy strangers about my predicament much less have them paw me. If I'm sick I want someone take steps to arrange for me to have the medicine I need to recover, but I think Diana really thought the hugging was a good idea and would help.
Roslyn, really good post. I do agree with you about how Anne has worked diligently and hard getting to the problem and working on a solution. She is famously 'capable", and I find it to one of her best qualities. She is a fabulous combination of her mother and her father; dare I say it, she could have been an excellent Queen.
I also agree with your assessment of Diana basically getting her photo took--especially when her marriage was headed downhill and she needed something to help to portray that "Saint Diana" image amid the dirtyness of the War of the Waleses.
But, I do think that at the beginning of her marriage she was looking for her niche and I do think that she felt passionately about visiting the sick. I read somewhere where when she couldn't sleep she'd go to the hospitals and find a patient who couldn't sleep and keep them company. And, she really reached out to AIDS victims--so even if she couldn't quite figure out what to do from an administrative standpoint, she did try to comfort people in her own way. I always thought it was very touching and selfless---UNTIL I saw an interview with Bashir or someone and she was talking about how her "touch brought a little girl out of a coma"--and it "scared her to think she had those abiltiies" or something like that. I didn't like it so much after that --- words like that are a little too convenient sometimes, in my own humble opinion.
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  #682  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
I also agree with your assessment of Diana basically getting her photo took--especially when her marriage was headed downhill and she needed something to help to portray that "Saint Diana" image amid the dirtyness of the War of the Waleses.
But, I do think that at the beginning of her marriage she was looking for her niche and I do think that she felt passionately about visiting the sick. I read somewhere where when she couldn't sleep she'd go to the hospitals and find a patient who couldn't sleep and keep them company. And, she really reached out to AIDS victims--so even if she couldn't quite figure out what to do from an administrative standpoint, she did try to comfort people in her own way. I always thought it was very touching and selfless---UNTIL I saw an interview with Bashir or someone and she was talking about how her "touch brought a little girl out of a coma"--and it "scared her to think she had those abiltiies" or something like that. I didn't like it so much after that --- words like that are a little too convenient sometimes, in my own humble opinion.
It's interesting to reread the Bashir-interview again, when it comes to that topic:

BASHIR: At this early stage in your marriage, what role did you see for yourself as Princess of Wales? Did you have an idea of the role that you might like to fulfil?
DIANA: No, I was very confused by which area I should go into. Then I found myself being more and more involved with people who were rejected by society - with, I'd say, drug addicts, alcoholism, battered this, battered that - and I found an affinity there.
And I respected very much the honesty I found on that level with people I met, because in hospices, for instance, when people are dying they're much more open and more vulnerable, and much more real than other people. And I appreciated that.
BASHIR: Had the Palace given any thought to the role that you might have as Princess of Wales?
DIANA: No, no one sat me down with a piece of paper and said: `This is what is expected of you.' But there again, I'm lucky enough in the fact that I have found my role, and I'm very conscious of it, and I love being with people.
BASHIR: So you very much created the role that you would pursue for yourself really? That was what you did?
DIANA: I think so. I remember when I used to sit on hospital beds and hold people's hands, people used to be sort of shocked because they said they'd never seen this before, and to me it was quite a normal thing to do.
And when I saw the reassurance that an action like that gave, I did it everywhere, and will always do that.

And a bit later - about her bulimia and her bouts of vomiting:


BASHIR: How often would you do that on a daily basis?
DIANA: Depends on the pressures going on. If I'd been on what I call an awayday, or I'd been up part of the country all day, I'd come home feeling pretty empty, because my engagements at that time would be to do with people dying, people very sick, people's marriage problems, and I'd come home and it would be very difficult to know how to comfort myself having been comforting lots of other people, so it would be a regular pattern to jump into the fridge.



I don't really undertsand what she is saying here: OTOH she says she created her role of "Saint Diana" herself and then she says she was bulimic because of all the comfort she gave to others and received none for herself. I mean, she need not have done all that or so much of it if it made her sich. Don't understand her, really. Same on reading the transcripts from the Morton-tapes: she is constantly interpreting the information she gives in order to make her appear a victim when OTOH she says herself that it was all her choice.


Another thing from the Panorama-interview:
You're effectively living separate lives, yet in public there's this appearance of this happily married royal couple. How was this regarded by the Royal Family?
DIANA: I think everybody was very anxious because they could see there were complications but didn't want to interfere, but were there, made it known that they were there if required.

And then:

BASHIR: The Queen described 1992 as her `annus horribilis', and it was in that year that Andrew Morton's book about you was published. Did you ever meet Andrew Morton or personally help him with the book?
DIANA: I never met him, no.
BASHIR: Did you ever personally assist him with the writing of his book?
DIANA: A lot of people saw the distress that my life was in, and they felt it was a supportive thing to help in the way that they did.
BASHIR: Did you allow your friends, your close friends, to speak to Andrew Morton?
DIANA: Yes, I did. Yes, I did.
BASHIR: Why?
DIANA: I was at the end of my tether. I was desperate.
I think I was so fed up with being seen as someone who was a basket-case, because I am a very strong person and I know that causes complications in the system that I live in.
BASHIR: How would a book change that?
DIANA: I don't know. Maybe people have a better understanding, maybe there's a lot of women out there who suffer on the same level but in a different environment, who are unable to stand up for themselves because their self-esteem is cut into two. I don't know.
BASHIR: What effect do you think the book had on your husband and the Royal Family?
DIANA: I think they were shocked and horrified and very disappointed.
BASHIR: Can you understand why?
DIANA: I think Mr Dimbleby's book was a shock to a lot of people and disappointment as well.


I read it that even though the RF offered help, Diana did not take it. She knew that the RF would be "shocked and horrified and very disappointed" but because she had been shocked about the Dimbleby-book it was okay to collaborate - even though she still lies about the amount for collaboration she had given to the book. She says:

Did you ever meet Andrew Morton or personally help him with the book? DIANA: I never met him, no.
BASHIR: Did you ever personally assist him with the writing of his book?
DIANA: A lot of people saw the distress that my life was in, and they felt it was a supportive thing to help in the way that they did.

And when you read what she said about her tears and tantrums she trew, I think it's pretty clear why that marriage became a bit crowded by his lover and her lovers...
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  #683  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
I read somewhere where when she couldn't sleep she'd go to the hospitals and find a patient who couldn't sleep and keep them company.
I thought that was the story she put about to cover first her infatuation and then affair with Hasnat Khan.

Whilst many people may have been comforted by her visits,I wonder how many AIDS patients were persuaded to have their picture taken with her, it was after all back in the dark ages when people tried to keep it hush hush!.
  #684  
Old 01-27-2008, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I thought that was the story she put about to cover first her infatuation and then affair with Hasnat Khan.

Whilst many people may have been comforted by her visits,I wonder how many AIDS patients were persuaded to have their picture taken with her, it was after all back in the dark ages when people tried to keep it hush hush!.
Skydragon, you're brilliant. Of course she used it as an excuse to conveniently show up when Hasnat was there. Typical school-girl type infatuation maneuvers (we all are guilty in some way of these) but I never even thought of the AIDs patients-the photos, that is.
I'm not so sure I would want anyone hugging me and hanging out in my hospital room--I firmly believe in personal space, I'm not a hugger, nor a handholder (well, with my hubby I am )
so, I wonder how many people really wanted that type of intrusion regardless if she was the Princess of Wales? Of course, it was a genius marketing plan that helped futher the "Saint Diana" image.
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  #685  
Old 01-27-2008, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
Skydragon, you're brilliant. Of course she used it as an excuse to conveniently show up when Hasnat was there. Typical school-girl type infatuation maneuvers (we all are guilty in some way of these) but I never even thought of the AIDs patients-the photos, that is.
I'm not so sure I would want anyone hugging me and hanging out in my hospital room--I firmly believe in personal space, I'm not a hugger, nor a handholder (well, with my hubby I am )
so, I wonder how many people really wanted that type of intrusion regardless if she was the Princess of Wales? Of course, it was a genius marketing plan that helped futher the "Saint Diana" image.
Definitely. Although, most of the time she was presented to some really ill people who don't have much life left. These people are, globally, happy to see some well-known person ; it's like a nice surprise or at least an event that can only do you some good. I don't see many patients refusing to meet her but I understand the unease state you may encounter while shaking hands and being hugged.
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  #686  
Old 01-27-2008, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
BASHIR: How would a book change that?
DIANA: I don't know. Maybe people have a better understanding, maybe there's a lot of women out there who suffer on the same level but in a different environment, who are unable to stand up for themselves because their self-esteem is cut into two. I don't know.
BASHIR: What effect do you think the book had on your husband and the Royal Family?
DIANA: I think they were shocked and horrified and very disappointed.
BASHIR: Can you understand why?
DIANA: I think Mr Dimbleby's book was a shock to a lot of people and disappointment as well.
thanks for the transcript, Jo of Palatine. I would never have patience to watch this interview again except the clips . I found some of her replies were notable as well. She did not answer whether she understood why the royals were shocked and horrified by Morton book but adding Dimbleby's book in this diaglogue. In a way, she found Prince Charles as the same position to justify her own behaviour.
  #687  
Old 01-27-2008, 05:11 PM
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Hello, all I just found this thread and would like to post my opinion. I was never a fan of Diana's as I only became aware of her in 1992 in the middle of the whole 'War of the Waleses' and she seemed to me even then to be a bit disingenuous. I always saw her actions as manipulative and self serving. My mom, my grand mother and stp-grandmother all had horrible marriages and suffered a lot and so I saw her litte 'victim' act as disgusting because I knew people who were even in worse pain than she. Now with the benefit of growing up I have more sympathy for her situation but my general opinin of her hasn't changed. She seemed to just blame everyone else for her problems and even worse she seemed to be lying to herself as well and that I can never sympathise with. I think she tryed to manipulate the situation to her advantage with the help of selective reasoning and I believe it hurt her and her children in the end.
  #688  
Old 05-11-2008, 08:17 AM
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I loved the Royal Family and thought Prince Charles was a wonderful young man, albeit a little too serious, so it was not surprising that I bought into the whole "Fairytale" deal (merange wedding gown notwithstanding). I met them when they came to NZ along with Prince William and was stunned at how charasmatic Princess Diana was. I was also charmed by Prince Charles obvious adulation/infatuation with his wife. I am not quite sure when I my opinion started to change, but probably when she started to deliberately upstage Prince Charles. By the time the Morton book was released I thought she was a self-centered narcisist at best and an amoral nitwit at worst.

For all her "tragic wronged wife" routine she was totally indifferent to the hurt and betrayal she visited on the wives of the men with which she became infatuated. The fact that she was the "other woman" in Will Carling's divorce hardly helped with her image, only this time the scorned wife (Julia) also had an adoring public and publicly damned (justifiably) Diana for her hypocrisy. She had absolutely no pity for them and yet she expected her adoring public to forgive her every move.

Her constant whining about being a the product of a disfunctional family and the wounded child of divorce made my blood boil. There were thousands of children just like her except Diana's life was insulated by money and position, her standard of living didn't drop nor did she have to change schools or worse, leave her private school for a state school in a less than salubrious suburb.

Her contention that the BRF prevented her from realising her potential was a scream. The best she could have hoped for was to marry a man of title and to continue her life as a Sloan Ranger, doing lunch and cruising boutiques.

Strangely enough, Diana's life of luxury holidays, high profile affairs and distancing herself from the Press was starting to rebound on her. More than a few papers were running critical articles about her new lifestyle.

IMO most were probably motivated by the fact that Dodi's money ensured her more distance from the paparazzi than she had previously allowed (much the same as Aristotle Onassis did for Jaqui Kennedy). She bit the hand that fed her, so to speak, and they were starting to bite back.

Come the the news of the accident and subsequent death of Diana the media did a 180 degree turn showing clips from the Panorama interview with "Shy-Di" wanting only to be "Queen of Hearts". Overnight a Saint was born!
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  #689  
Old 05-11-2008, 08:44 AM
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I voted "other" because I found the book "Diana in Private" written by Lady Colin Campbell an eye opener and that was written some time before all the sentimentality cropped up after her unfortunate death. I was surprised also to hear that she failed all her subjects even though she was at a private school where distractions are at a minimum, she repeated them and failed them ALL again.
Then after her death I read another book called "Shadow of a Princess" written by her former private secretary and it showed what a difficult person she was. She knew how to capture the attention of photographers and courted them even when complaining, ironically I think that this fascination with being the object of attention led to her untimely death. She was unstable and the royal family just didn´t know how to deal with her. I think it was a shame that she married Prince Charles, she may have turned out completely differently if she had married someone else - but who knows.
  #690  
Old 05-12-2008, 07:49 AM
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Some posts on the eternal Charles/Camilla/Diana debate were deleted. I highly discourage people of starting any kind of fights ... or they will face the consequences.

Thank you.

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  #691  
Old 05-14-2008, 01:07 AM
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I love the Royal Family and I love Diana, first because she was a member of the Royal family and then because of herself. I think she is a lovely person and it is unfortunate her royal marriage did not work out, but without it we might not have come to know her and all the wonderful things she stood for especially in the field of charity work. I think of her whenever I read about her sons and I know she is indeed a special mother because of the wonderful tribute they did in 'Concert for Diana'.
  #692  
Old 05-26-2008, 05:15 PM
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I am an older woman and I have to say my opinion of Diana started with "what a charming young woman" to "What a beautiful woman inside and out". It was the the things Diana did wrong that endeared her to me. I think the most important thing to Diana was her role of being a Mother to her children and she did a great job. Having a chump like Charles for a husband must have been a slap in the face to her and quite frankly, I am glad there are still 3 people in that marriage. I wonder how Camilla feels about that? Diana was endearing when she was at her very worst. My opinion has not wavered.
  #693  
Old 05-26-2008, 05:39 PM
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My opinion changed after the her affairs became public knowledge. Diana had never really interested me at all but my aunt had the Morton book and I just decided to read it one day. After I finished it I did pity her a little; being cheated on by your husband/boyfriend is a horrible thing to experience but I was still pretty much indifferent to her. When it came out that she had her own affairs what little pity I did have for her disappeared quickly, not because she had her own relationships outside her marriage but because she had the audacity to play the "poor me, my husband had an affair" card yet neglected to include her own. He had his affair, she had hers, neither one of them was perfect and her constant attempts to convince people otherwise made me dislike her immensely.
  #694  
Old 05-26-2008, 06:38 PM
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My son called me, told me that the Princess had been in an accident, then I flipped the t.v. and saw the news for myself. I wasn't a fan, like a die-hard fan, but it hurt terrible inside. It was just last year that I somehow got into her public good works. Maybe it's the longevity of her fame that has something to do with it, or maybe it took me this long to realize something -

we are worse off without her...
  #695  
Old 08-27-2008, 06:06 PM
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Diana showed us that she was human like everyone else. Maybe if she had gotten help, and had better thoughts, what kind of path could she have taken? But we can play the what if games. I admired her ability to work with people in her charities and showed her caring side. I think that is the highlight that everyone remembers that outshines the bad.
  #696  
Old 10-30-2008, 05:19 AM
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Someone in the press told the story of how Diana hid behind a tree to avoid the press but was watching them with a compact mirror. This was before Charles and Diana married. I know someone who would do such a thing—no intellect but great cunning—and I thought Diana was probably of a similar personality. I also then knew that Diana would be extremely high maintenance.
  #697  
Old 11-01-2008, 05:10 PM
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I was quite young when they married and I remember my friend collecting pictures from magazines and sending presents for the children etc. I just thought at first she was a little silly and as I got older and observed her my opinion of her got lower and lower. And no you dont want my honest opinion on the woman I respect that many people are fans of this woman and feel quite strongly on the subject. I am not a fan so if you are lets agree to disagree. I did think she dressed well and I appreciate the awareness she brought to the land mines issue/aids and many others. I remember her death and really to be honest I felt sorry for her children as I dont think the mass hysteria was helpful to them at the time nor has it been since.
  #698  
Old 11-01-2008, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kbear View Post
I was quite young when they married and I remember my friend collecting pictures from magazines and sending presents for the children etc. I just thought at first she was a little silly and as I got older and observed her my opinion of her got lower and lower. And no you dont want my honest opinion on the woman I respect that many people are fans of this woman and feel quite strongly on the subject. I am not a fan so if you are lets agree to disagree. I did think she dressed well and I appreciate the awareness she brought to the land mines issue/aids and many others. I remember her death and really to be honest I felt sorry for her children as I dont think the mass hysteria was helpful to them at the time nor has it been since.
I agree totally - she never impressed me at all and I am not even sure she was a great mother as she seemed to want to be too controlling and was so insecure that she treated her sons more as equals rather than as children. She certainly loved them but I don't think she was a 'great' mum - a good one and a loving one yes but she also had her flaws as a mum. I also have absolutely no time for a woman who publicly trashes the father of her children which she did (or for a man who publicly trashes the mother of his children for that matter). She, and Charles, both used the boys as weapons but when I read that she would take the boys away before Charles could see them (or give them dinner on evenings when Charles was supposed to have dinner with them - thus denying him some of the time he should have had with them) I really came to despise her.
  #699  
Old 11-01-2008, 10:07 PM
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Excellent points, completely. Diana is an enigma; on the one hand, she did indeed bring awareness to critical issues such as land mines, but that was later in her life after the divorce and all the drama of her marriage and I think that she beginning to finally find her way in life and create a new identity--which she did need.

However, as for my opinion changing--I found her to be manipulative (throwing herself down the stairs when she was pregnant is a good example), vindictive (pushing her step-mother down the stairs) and dramatic (eyeliner in the Morton interview). She was also deceitful and hypocritical and knew how to use her status/celebrity to her best advantage. I have no doubt it was difficult knowing your husband is in love with someone else--and for that I can forgive some of her irrational behavior, but overall, I thought that from her childhood she had been spoiled, prone to tantrums and manipulation, as well as vindictiveness and mean-spiritedness (flushed her nanny's engagement ring down the toilet). We can blame it on her parents divorce, the situation surrounding her marriage--but in all truth, I blame Diana's behavior on Diana. She willfully made choices in her life--she choose to push people down steps, she choose to say that awful thing to Tiggy, she choose to throw herself down the stairs when seh was pregnant, she choose to have multiple affairs, she choose to help Morton write his book without thinking of the consequences, she choose to bash Charles on public and on national television, she choose to court the paparazzi, and she choose to marry Charles suspecting he loved Camilla--because she wanted to be Queen--she had had a crush on him for years and apparently, the night before her wedding she was riding a tricycle in Clarence House singing "I'm going to be Queen".
And, I haven't hit on the whole way she manipulated and handled the divorce and separation with Charles with regard to the boys. She was selfish, bitter, and spiteful. And, yet, many people completely adore her. Frankly, I don't necessarily get it. She had some wonderful qualities, there is no question, and she made everything seem magical but that's just film and lighting when it comes down to it.
I realize I sound harsh--but she deserves harsh words. I will say this, in the year or so before she died, she seemed to be evolving into someone I would admire. I think it is sad that she lost that opportunity to become more than she had been. The topic of this thread is "When did your opinion of Diana change and why?". As a child, I thought her to be amazing and beautiful. As an adult, I saw her for what she was and stand by my opinion. Now, I see her for what she could have been. It was when she was working for land mine awareness and trying to lead a bit calmer life that I began to come around in my thinking of her and thought that perhaps she was finally finding her niche.
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  #700  
Old 11-02-2008, 12:24 AM
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And, yet, many people completely adore her. Frankly, I don't necessarily get it.
Because she was human and made bad choices like the rest of us. If the Princess really wanted to be Queen, she would not have pulled the stunts she pulled to endanger her position as Queen in-waiting imo. I also would not treat the story of Diana riding a bike around Clarence House the night before her wedding as 100% fact either.
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