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View Poll Results: When did your opinion of Diana start to change and why?
Morton book (1990) 25 9.80%
War of the Waleses (starting 1990) 20 7.84%
Squidgygate (1992) 12 4.71%
Hewitt affair (1993) 17 6.67%
Charles' interview (1994) 5 1.96%
Panorama interview (1995) 43 16.86%
Phone calls to Oliver Hoare (1994) 14 5.49%
Dodi al-Fayed (1997) 23 9.02%
Other (please explain) 96 37.65%
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

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  #581  
Old 01-19-2008, 03:35 PM
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Oh I see ysbel your right, I mean it makes sense that Dodi's family wasn't exactly equipted with the right people to protect Diana because they had never really experienced anything like the fame Diana had at that point.
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  #582  
Old 01-19-2008, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by anbrida View Post
Your words made me feel worthy to almost stay overnight to write a post. I hoped my post was not too long to make your eyes tired. We can prove nothing. However, please don't put it so straight forward. We all know that is the fact, but we just don't want to lose a topic to discuss which can kill our boring time. Right now to post here is my only hobby, because I just hurted my knee and could not do any exercise at all.
I understand what you mean, because it seems like a lot of members rather be delusional to the fact that us stand-byers will never be able to know the truth behind this story. My post wasn't intended to end speculation, by all means you are all entitled to your own guesses about this marriage...But I simply am letting you know that no matter what discussions we will have about this, we'll never be able to change or know the truth
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  #583  
Old 01-19-2008, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Fabulous Fake View Post
Al-Fayed was notorious in Britain before the accident and that is why so many people were shocked by Diana associating with him so publically.
Australia too, we are great Royal watchers so anything pertaining to them was news, so was well documented here what the Al-Fayeds were or were not up to
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  #584  
Old 01-19-2008, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
. And one more thing I don't understand what the car crash and her dying at a young age had to do with her making mistakes in the years before. Car crashes happen simple as that, you can't really protect yourself or prevent it from happening. Sorry if I miss-understood anything but I sorta skimmed through the last few pages really quickly.
I think she made poor choices which put her in that position. She was with Dodi what her motives were I don't know, revenge or whatever, but she was with him

She wasn't wearing a seat belt and if she was so worried about the Paparazzi the sensible thing would have been to stay at the Ritz for the night

It's all water under the bridge now, regardless the poor woman died far too young and left 2 young boys without their mother
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  #585  
Old 01-19-2008, 07:00 PM
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We always assumed it's Diana who was the main commander who orchestrated the whole drama in that summer for her own purpose. But this opinion sounds not so harmonic with the information we have. First when Diana was first on board, Dodi was not among them, it was Al-Fayed who asked his son to join in the mids. Second, later on, Dodi sounded more like the one who made the decision. For example, the phone call between Diana and Burrel showed Diana wanted to go back London but Dodi wanted to go to Paris, and finally Diana followed Dodi. And at that night Diana wanted to stay at Ritz, but Dodi insisted on going back to his appartment. Once again, Diana rendered.
Above all, it seemed to me it was Dodi who crazely courted Diana, rather than Diana seduced him. Just wonder if Dodi didn't pursue Diana, would that kissing pic exist? And we might assumed it was Diana who took the initiative to kiss Dodi. However, just from the picture, we can not tell who was initiative. Actually from some other pictures I did saw Dodi was trying to touch Diana, but I didn't see Diana tried to touch Dodi.
Sure it was normal to ask why Diana allowed Al-Fayed to use her. I agreed Al-Fayed did used Diana, but about Dodi Fayed, I think he was just crazy in love. And Diana may never consider being used, she was just enjoying Dodi's true affection, which she'd always longed for. It didn't mean Diana loved Dodi, but as a woman I understand most woman would be touched by this kind of courting.
There were a lot of conspiracies concerned about the summer romance, mostly because of Al-Fayed's notorious fame. We always try to find reason. But I think when Diana accepted the invitation, it was not her purpose to use it as a revenge. Because at the beginning Dodi was not even in the plan. And I guessed through the whole vacation, Diana was at a passive position. We always asked why Diana made this choice and made that choice, but it was probably just as Diana said, "it was not what I chose, it was chosen for me."
  #586  
Old 01-19-2008, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by anbrida View Post
We always assumed it's Diana who was the main commander who orchestrated the whole drama in that summer for her own purpose.
That "we" you refer to does not include me. I agree that Diana let Dodi call the shots that last night, it probably sounded more romantic. It wasn't wise given her knowledge of how bad the press could get around her and Dodi would not have realized it. But like many women, she deferred to the man in her life on that life instead of making her own decisions. Women often defer to men when they know better and unfortunately they pay the consequences when things go wrong.

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Originally Posted by anbrida View Post
But this opinion sounds not so harmonic with the information we have. First when Diana was first on board, Dodi was not among them, it was Al-Fayed who asked his son to join in the mids.
You're probably right about that. The reasons that the people closest to Diana give are that she wanted to knock Camilla's 50th birthday party off of front page and that she wanted to make Hasnat Khan jealous. If she befriended al-Fayed first rather than Dodi, that rather knocks out the idea that she hooked up with the al-Fayeds just to make Hasnat jealous. The idea that she was going to steal Camilla's birthday thunder still could happen if she just showed an open friendship with al-Fayed. He was rather notorious in Britain and a public friendship between al-Fayed and the mother of the future King of England would be perceived as an insult to the British establishment and to the Royal family. Diana's association with Mohammed al-Fayed would get a lot of press even without Dodi in the picture.
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  #587  
Old 01-19-2008, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
That "we" you refer to does not include me. I agree that Diana let Dodi call the shots that last night, it probably sounded more romantic. It wasn't wise given her knowledge of how bad the press could get around her and Dodi would not have realized it. But like many women, she deferred to the man in her life on that life instead of making her own decisions. Women often defer to men when they know better and unfortunately they pay the consequences when things go wrong.

You're probably right about that. The reasons that the people closest to Diana give are that she wanted to knock Camilla's 50th birthday party off of front page and that she wanted to make Hasnat Khan jealous. If she befriended al-Fayed first rather than Dodi, that rather knocks out the idea that she hooked up with the al-Fayeds just to make Hasnat jealous. The idea that she was going to steal Camilla's birthday thunder still could happen if she just showed an open friendship with al-Fayed. He was rather notorious in Britain and a public friendship between al-Fayed and the mother of the future King of England would be perceived as an insult to the British establishment and to the Royal family. Diana's association with Mohammed al-Fayed would get a lot of press even without Dodi in the picture.
I enjoyed your post, it is sensible. And more important, it showed understanding.

It seemed not wise to accept Al-Fayed's invitation. That would only bring bad press for her, it was obvious. But Diana was a weird person. She seemed had an instinctive favorite for people who were outcasted by the society. I don't mean because of this, she befriended Al-Fayed. But at least Al-Fayed notorious fame would not scare her away.

When she accepted al-Fayed's invitation, she already knew Charles would hold a birthday party for Camilla? Even she knew, this kind of long-term scheming was out of her ability I think.

But it's still possible she wanted to steal Camilla's birthday thunder. Instant wisdom could give her a scheme. I am going to look more picture taken at that summer. If Diana looked just natural in those pictures, I think you are right. But if she looked hidden then probably I am right.

About Dodi, I didn't know too much about him. But I just read something about him in Wikipedia. He seemed did did something in his life. He helped to make some movies and some of them were quite famous. I am afraid people's opinion of him would be biased by his father's bad fame. I've also checked his love history. He didn't have many affairs in his life. Keep in mind that he was a film producer who had so many chances to meet young and beautiful actresses.
Dodi Al-Fayed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dodi al-Fayed
  #588  
Old 01-19-2008, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
You're probably right about that. The reasons that the people closest to Diana give are that she wanted to knock Camilla's 50th birthday party off of front page and that she wanted to make Hasnat Khan jealous. If she befriended al-Fayed first rather than Dodi, that rather knocks out the idea that she hooked up with the al-Fayeds just to make Hasnat jealous. The idea that she was going to steal Camilla's birthday thunder still could happen if she just showed an open friendship with al-Fayed. He was rather notorious in Britain and a public friendship between al-Fayed and the mother of the future King of England would be perceived as an insult to the British establishment and to the Royal family. Diana's association with Mohammed al-Fayed would get a lot of press even without Dodi in the picture.
Dodi was called away from his fiancee, Kelly by his father after Princess Diana was already on al Fayed's yacht. I think al Fayed wanted Dodi to meet the Princess, but I don't think Diana went on the yacht at first to make Khan jealous. I believe she just wanted a vacation that summer and to steal Camilla's thunder.
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  #589  
Old 01-20-2008, 12:22 AM
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I read all these recounts of the last months of Diana's life. No one has mentioned that Diana called the paparazzi beforehand so they would capture the kiss between Dodi and her. That doesn't sound like a passive woman to me. She created the frenzy around herself and Dodi by all the romance talks and the engagement rumor. In a way, she killed herself by her own hands.

I agree with ysbel about Diana's vindicative nature. That's one of many unattractive traits of Diana's.

As for her craving for attention and adoration, I read that she's considering to move to New York before her death because she sensed that UK press and the public had become cooler toward her but the New York media and upper crust elite still adored her.
  #590  
Old 01-20-2008, 03:21 AM
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I think Diana may have just been tired of her relationships not working out, why they didn't work out I dunno and maybe that's why she felt she needed revenge. In some way I don't blame her to be honest with you I may have done some of the things she did had I been in the same situation. As for the paparazzi well you know they use you, you use them it works both way unfortunately the game ended tragically.
  #591  
Old 01-20-2008, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
He was rather notorious in Britain and a public friendship between al-Fayed and the mother of the future King of England would be perceived as an insult to the British establishment and to the Royal family.
Maybe she felt they had something in common. I think Diana realised since her divorce that she was now being ostracised by the society she was born into and where she had held the second highest position due to her marriage and that Al-fayed was treated in much the same way. That could have been a common bond. Because I doubt Diana knew much about the reasons for Al-fayed's notoriety but saw him as a helpfull and generous man who shared some of her interests (eg the ballet) and who had been befriended by her father.

Quite some people said that she was lonely but had no idea how to change that - she realised she could never be again "just Diana", there was always her baggage coming with her and the end of the relationship with Hasnat Khan cemented that belief. I think her trying to hook up with the multi-rich and find a new husband there was one way to solve the situation for her. She couldn't do the Jackie Onassis and start a career in book publishing because she was not educated enough to do so, but she didn't want to sit in her golden cage all the time either. So she got on the boat with humanitarian activities. I somehow have the feeling that Paul Burrell for his own interests tried to keep her to himself as much as he could and thus encouraged her to compartimentalise her friends, to conduct her social life mainly through one-to-one contacts. He as well as the soothsayers used her existing fears for their own ends, I think. They all used that to bond with her, but in effect they robbed her of her own feeling of freedom.

I think Diana had difficulties to fit in with a group of people, she was used and had grown accustomed to being always in the center of interest, so I guess she didn't enjoy houseparties or weekends in the countryside where she was just one of the pack. As we have heard she could be quite difficult when she was not thought of as the first and most important person, so I guess at one point people ceased to invite her as part of a group and either entertained her alone or did not invite her at all.
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  #592  
Old 01-20-2008, 07:47 AM
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Great post Jo of Palatine.I agree with much that you express so well.

My theory about the Diana/Dodi relationship was perhaps that Diana was thoroughly enjoying a heady teenage summer fling.Lets not forget that when she was a teenager she didn't have those experiences of freedom which is common for many of us.Then aged nineteen,the door was locked and she never had any chance again to experience freedom.All her relationships had to be conducted secretly until her final summer when she apparently adored being free at last.
She was happy and she wanted the world to know it but I believe that it was just a thrilling break for her and she planned to return to her normality having had an exciting summer affair.

I am still distressed about her never getting that chance.
  #593  
Old 01-20-2008, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
I read all these recounts of the last months of Diana's life. No one has mentioned that Diana called the paparazzi beforehand so they would capture the kiss between Dodi and her. That doesn't sound like a passive woman to me. She created the frenzy around herself and Dodi by all the romance talks and the engagement rumor. In a way, she killed herself by her own hands.

I agree with ysbel about Diana's vindicative nature. That's one of many unattractive traits of Diana's.

As for her craving for attention and adoration, I read that she's considering to move to New York before her death because she sensed that UK press and the public had become cooler toward her but the New York media and upper crust elite still adored her.
Ahh, that is called 'glossing over the facts'. I have noticed that many people, when 'reminded' of some of the nasty things Diana did to other people and her use of the media, will try to ignore it and if that fails will bring Camilla into the conversation.
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palantine View Post
...Because I doubt Diana knew much about the reasons for Al-fayed's notoriety but saw him as a helpfull and generous man who shared some of her interests (eg the ballet) and who had been befriended by her father
I think Diana knew al Fayeds reputation and used the holiday as a snub to the establishment
Quote:
I think Diana had difficulties to fit in with a group of people, she was used and had grown accustomed to being always in the center of interest, so I guess she didn't enjoy houseparties or weekends in the countryside where she was just one of the pack.
IMO, Diana was never the sort of person who was happy just being a member of a group, before her involvement with Charles. She always struck me as being the type of person who 'encouraged' others in their naughtiness, whilst she stood back, uninvolved and blameless.
  #594  
Old 01-20-2008, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Maybe she felt they had something in common. I think Diana realised since her divorce that she was now being ostracised by the society she was born into and where she had held the second highest position due to her marriage and that Al-fayed was treated in much the same way. That could have been a common bond. Because I doubt Diana knew much about the reasons for Al-fayed's notoriety but saw him as a helpfull and generous man who shared some of her interests (eg the ballet) and who had been befriended by her father.

Quite some people said that she was lonely but had no idea how to change that - she realised she could never be again "just Diana", there was always her baggage coming with her and the end of the relationship with Hasnat Khan cemented that belief. I think her trying to hook up with the multi-rich and find a new husband there was one way to solve the situation for her. She couldn't do the Jackie Onassis and start a career in book publishing because she was not educated enough to do so, but she didn't want to sit in her golden cage all the time either. So she got on the boat with humanitarian activities. I somehow have the feeling that Paul Burrell for his own interests tried to keep her to himself as much as he could and thus encouraged her to compartimentalise her friends, to conduct her social life mainly through one-to-one contacts. He as well as the soothsayers used her existing fears for their own ends, I think. They all used that to bond with her, but in effect they robbed her of her own feeling of freedom.

I think Diana had difficulties to fit in with a group of people, she was used and had grown accustomed to being always in the center of interest, so I guess she didn't enjoy houseparties or weekends in the countryside where she was just one of the pack. As we have heard she could be quite difficult when she was not thought of as the first and most important person, so I guess at one point people ceased to invite her as part of a group and either entertained her alone or did not invite her at all.
Jo-I think your above statement about Princess Diana is very well written and a real insight to what she must have been going through her last year of her life. I really didn't think you liked Princess Diana, but what you have written above shows me a very balanced view about her.
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  #595  
Old 01-20-2008, 10:19 AM
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I think Diana may have just been tired of her relationships not working out, why they didn't work out I dunno and maybe that's why she felt she needed revenge. In some way I don't blame her to be honest with you I may have done some of the things she did .
Outside of the Diana discussions, I have never seen so many people who were so sympathetic and understanding of revenge. And these people say they would do the same vengeful things too.

I can understand people relating to Diana's compassionate nature, her need to help but when people relate sympathetically to her need for revenge and say that they would do the same, that always gives me pause.

If someone has the capacity for revenge that Diana had, I would stay far away from them. Its not worth it.
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  #596  
Old 01-20-2008, 11:42 AM
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Outside of the Diana discussions, I have never seen so many people who were so sympathetic and understanding of revenge. And these people say they would do the same vengeful things too.

I can understand people relating to Diana's compassionate nature, her need to help but when people relate sympathetically to her need for revenge and say that they would do the same, that always gives me pause.

If someone has the capacity for revenge that Diana had, I would stay far away from them. Its not worth it.
True ysbel. I can't imagine myself forgiving her for what she sometimes did in the name of revenge. What I can understand is that anger can make you act in a very nasty way toward someone who, in your opinion, did something hurtful. But is it wise to let hatred and anger manage your actions ? I don't think so.
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  #597  
Old 01-20-2008, 02:54 PM
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But it's still possible she wanted to steal Camilla's birthday thunder.
What birthday thunder? Did the public really care about Camilla's 50th birthday? Did they care about her 60th birthday? I don't seem to recall any pictures. It sounds more like wishful thinking.

Diana was always making headlines. I suppose many, if not most, of them could be stealing someone's thunder somewhere.
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Old 01-20-2008, 04:43 PM
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What birthday thunder? Did the public really care about Camilla's 50th birthday? Did they care about her 60th birthday? I don't seem to recall any pictures. It sounds more like wishful thinking.
You must have missed most of the UK editions then.
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:33 PM
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You must have missed most of the UK editions then.
It actually made the front page of The Sun (link) but because Kate Middleton was invited so it may not convince you, zhontella. Although here's an article of The Guardian published on July 19, 1997 which means 1 month and 12 days before Diana's death.
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Old 01-20-2008, 06:56 PM
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What birthday thunder? Did the public really care about Camilla's 50th birthday? Did they care about her 60th birthday? I don't seem to recall any pictures. It sounds more like wishful thinking.
The birthday thunder that existed in the storms in Diana's mind. She thought it was important, and that's all that mattered.

Diana's revenge: Dodi affair was calculated to snatch attention from Camilla | the Daily Mail
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