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View Poll Results: When did your opinion of Diana start to change and why?
Morton book (1990) 25 9.80%
War of the Waleses (starting 1990) 20 7.84%
Squidgygate (1992) 12 4.71%
Hewitt affair (1993) 17 6.67%
Charles' interview (1994) 5 1.96%
Panorama interview (1995) 43 16.86%
Phone calls to Oliver Hoare (1994) 14 5.49%
Dodi al-Fayed (1997) 23 9.02%
Other (please explain) 96 37.65%
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

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  #301  
Old 01-04-2008, 03:46 PM
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In that conversation posted by Jo of Palatine, Camilla sounds like a therapist. But I read an article on her in the Vanity Fair magazine that depicts her as a pleasant to be with person, a nice lady.

When someone wants from us that we are either a Fanatic or a Hater, that person is trying to triangulate us. I think Zhontella is very right, it is refreshing to read opinions that are not trying to triangulate us, that struggle for a point of view of justice.
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  #302  
Old 01-04-2008, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by zhontella View Post
I've heard that before -- in fact I know the game myself, it's one experienced lady seductress who tells the man exactly what he wants to hear.....etc. and it may or may not contain varying shades of truth. Poor dumb little Diana didn't stand a chance. So now why did Charles have a face of thunder with one nasty attitude in the last media observation of him?
Okay, that's your view on it according to your own way to "play the game". In my experience this is what love is all about - if you'd listen in on phone calls between my husband and me when he is away on business trips, you'd hear the same from us... maybe our game is different from yours but IMHO Charles' and Camilla's game is quite similar to ours....

As for the truth: I think after seeing Charles and Camilla for two years now, 18 years after this phone call and two years after he put "that ring" on her finger, I believe they still adore each other and she still tells him what he wants to hear.

While "poor dumb little" Diana could have done the same and still be his princess: be interested in his work, tell him that he is wonderful, talk him into sleep, miss him when he is gone and look forward to seeing him again - feel that and communicate that to your darling and he will be happy (at least my husband is and Charles does not seem to be unhappy either...)

I think that Diana did not much after she had married Charles to make him happy. Even that famous birthday "gift" of her dance at the Royal opera was something she must have known would annoy him but present her as a beautiful and talented lady in public. If she really had loved him she would have tried to understand the pressures of his life and gone about finding her own place there - even if it meant to wait for some months till he had more control over his appointments and could make time for her. Her marriage to him in terms of Royal pre-planning was rather sudden, so of course he was fully booked for the next months - including time he wanted to spent with his friends or playing polo or going hunting or visiting a gardening show. If it is true what has been written, that she thought he should cancel these plans in order to be with her, then she did not understand that much about men. Married men are normally pretty willing to take their bride with them to their private pursuits or present them to their friends. But they were obviously very different in what "fun" meant to them. And if Diana had not been impressed by his future crown so much, she would have seen that he was not the guy for her....
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  #303  
Old 01-04-2008, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tan_berry View Post
In that conversation posted by Jo of Palatine, Camilla sounds like a therapist. But I read an article on her in the Vanity Fair magazine that depicts her as a pleasant to be with person, a nice lady.
Why the "but"? Most therapists are pleasant to be with and nice.... And I'm of the opinion that in a marriage husband and wife should try to help each other to feel good and to overcome problems, adapt to the realities of life and encourage each other to do things that are good for them, even if these things are not necessarily good for the other. Yes, that's what therapists do as well but why turn to somebody foreign for help if you can have that from a spouse or a friend?

Okay, at that time in their life Camilla did not need to spent her life with Charles, but obviously they are able to keep that good humour, friendship and mutual help in spite of the pressures of Royal life.
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'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #304  
Old 01-04-2008, 04:07 PM
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I liked and admired Diana from the very beginning, and that did not really ever change. BUT...I would not be telling the truth if I did not admit that their were revelations about her personality and character that disturbed me quite a bit. The nuisance calls to Oliver Hoare are a good example. Diana, who suffered so much in her marriage to Charles by having him cheat on her was quite willing to do this to another woman without a thought. Oliver Hoare had children, and this also did not seem to matter to her.

The nasty episode with Tiggy at the Christmas party("so sorry about the abortion!") not only shocked but disgusted me. Princess or not, I would have slapped Diana hard across the face if I had been Tiggy, and consequences be damned.

The very blatant lies about the Morton book and the way she later turned her back on the very people she encouraged to participate was just disgusting.
The Panorama interview didn't jolt me that much...at that point nothing that happened between the Waleses surprised me. But I thought Diana came off very badly

That being said....even though my my admiration for Diana had diminished somewhat at the time of her death, I still sympathized with her much more than I did Camilla Parker Bowles. Camilla was a much older, much more worldly and sophisticated woman. Once she made the decision NOT to marry Charles when she was single and she could have, she had no right to encourage and participate in adultery with him, therefore destroying a family and breaking the heart of a very confused and troubled young girl like Diana was when she married Charles.
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  #305  
Old 01-04-2008, 07:38 PM
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To me Diana was a very young ill prepared girl,to suddenly become The Princess of Wales.She seemed selfish and emonionally fragile,who,even with her charity work tried to make herself look good.Poor Diana she always made herself out to be the victim.
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  #306  
Old 01-04-2008, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
That's what annoys me so - she was beautiful or at least fotogenic and thus she could behave as she wanted while finding followers. And she knew this and she used it to her advantage.
I personally feel though she didn't use it to her advantage but that's just my opinion of course your allowed to have your own

I do disagree with alot that's been said but obviously this is a discussion and people are allowed to have their own opinion
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  #307  
Old 01-04-2008, 11:11 PM
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When I was very young I just didn't like Diana. (I actually liked neither Charles nor Camilla). I think the main reason is that I didn't like her haircut, etc. Normally I would have stayed neutral against her but all this admiration and all this fuss everywhere made me develop an antipathy. I was only a young child back than. When she died I still felt very sorry.
Later I came to like Charles, Camilla, Queen Elizabeth, etc but I still didn’t like Diana. Some nasty things I read about her didn’t make me change my opinion. But recently my opinions aren’t that strong anymore. I see that everybody is human and that she probably had some problems but other times she was probably really nice. Yes, some things in life are your own decisions but life is how it is and in the end only the good things really matter anyway.
I certainly still don’t really like her haircut, but I see now that it was the fashion of the time and wasn’t all THAT bad… (not that things like that matter anyway)
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  #308  
Old 01-04-2008, 11:27 PM
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When Diana wore the "black sheep" sweater during her engagement told me a lot about her state of mind even as far back as that... Her continued fascination with fashion and upstaging her husband and his family thru her wardrobe told me everything I needed to know about her state of mind thru the years...I felt very sad for her not being a "team player" on Team Windsor. I still admire her very much for her charity work and the way she channelled her energy to the ill and "downtrodden"...She simply got too loud (for those she represented..even in the state of being divorced)when she became associated with AIDS and landmines....

I admire Diana for trying to retain her personality (flaws and all) within a family and a system that is highly regulated and based upon strict protocol... There were intolerable intention acts of sheer rudeness and spite which have been hard to forgive and forget...She was tacky, condescending and childish in situations with people who were not of her station. But we all are of that ourselves at times, I'm sure...

The last straw of me tolerating Diana's antics was going on vacation with the Al-Fayeds....I remember thinking how utterly stupid of her to allow her boys to be in such controversial company.
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  #309  
Old 01-05-2008, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lilytornado View Post
Yes, some things in life are your own decisions but life is how it is and in the end only the good things really matter anyway.
Surely it is not 'only the good things that really matter', that would be the same as saying 'he murdered 15 children, but he was wonderful to his mother', wouldn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkie40 View Post
She was tacky, condescending and childish in situations with people who were not of her station
She could be 100 times worse to people from the same social class!
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  #310  
Old 01-05-2008, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Surely it is not 'only the good things that really matter', that would be the same as saying 'he murdered 15 children, but he was wonderful to his mother', wouldn't it?
No of course, I didn't mean it like that, but I didn't really know how to put it. I mean everything matters, but go cannot dwell on the bad sides forever. I don't think Charles thinks everyday about Diana's horrible traits. I mean Diana did some bad things, but she didn't murder 15 children anyway, so in the end maybe you can see the bad things and the good things, and hopefully everybody involved was able to forgive in the end (for their own good).
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  #311  
Old 01-05-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by lilytornado View Post
I don't think Charles thinks everyday about Diana's horrible traits.
Well, if anybody, then it must be him who is thinking about her horrible traits - at least I believe that he was the one who was mostly at the receiving end of her temper tantrums and of her spitting poison. I don't know what got on in their marriage in detail but the bits I know are enough to pity him from my heart. That's why I understand why he at a later point in their marriage could no longer see that he was married to an "attractive" woman - because if only the shell is attractive but the person within hurt you then all beauty of the body is without any meaning.

Yes, it's true - Diana did help charities to reach a broader public acknowledgement and for that I still applaud her. But I'm glad I never had to have contact with her on a social basis.
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  #312  
Old 01-05-2008, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sirhon11234 View Post
Its not Princess Diana's fault that their are conspiracy theories surrounding her death, nor is she responsible for the inquest. The people who are responsible for this on-going Diana mania as you call it is the media and Muhammed Al Fayed.
Sure, I can buy the argument that the media persists the mania for profits, and Fayed goes on doing what he does because........ well, because somewhere in his lunatic rationalizations, it makes sense (to him) to do so.

At the same time, it's pretty much a given that Diana always wanted to stay in the center of things, and that she would just be tickled to smithereens (htf do you spell that) about attracting all this attention for another freaking decade postmortem. Remember how excited she was when she made the front page of The Times for the first time ever? Well hotdam, how happy she'd be now, the most famous, profit-generating ghost since Elvis?
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  #313  
Old 01-05-2008, 01:14 PM
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CasiraghiTrio so what your trying to say is that Diana would've been pleased to know that she is still in the papers becuase of her inquest? Why would she want the public and her sons to know all about the morbid details about her death and autopsy? Thats just ridiculous.
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  #314  
Old 01-05-2008, 01:58 PM
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Since this thread is about how opinions have changed about Diana over the years, I thought I'd share this early video from Elvis Costello that features a Charles and Diana lookalike.



This has to be from really early in their marriage but its interesting to see how differently people saw Charles and Diana in the beginning.
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  #315  
Old 01-05-2008, 02:10 PM
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What's more interesting is that the Charles lookalike isn't one I've seen before. Usually they're Peter Hugo, Charles Haslett or Guy Ingle. I wonder who this chap is. I don't recognise the Diana either for that matter.
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  #316  
Old 01-05-2008, 02:17 PM
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I actually find the video quite funny. My favorite part is seeing the Charles look alike leaping through the hoop of fire.
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  #317  
Old 01-05-2008, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by lilytornado View Post
No of course, I didn't mean it like that, but I didn't really know how to put it. I mean everything matters, but go cannot dwell on the bad sides forever. I don't think Charles thinks everyday about Diana's horrible traits. I mean Diana did some bad things, but she didn't murder 15 children anyway, so in the end maybe you can see the bad things and the good things, and hopefully everybody involved was able to forgive in the end (for their own good).
I suppose it depends on your own memories and whether that person was, to you, a nice person or a bitch. Some things are totally unforgivable!
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  #318  
Old 01-05-2008, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I suppose it depends on your own memories and whether that person was, to you, a nice person or a bitch. Some things are totally unforgivable!
Rigidity is a dangerous trap, Sky. At some point, we have to let things go and be flexible. I think that is what lilytornado means to say, but forgive me, lily, if I'm perceiving your meaning the wrong way.
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  #319  
Old 01-05-2008, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
Rigidity is a dangerous trap, Sky. At some point, we have to let things go and be flexible. I think that is what lilytornado means to say, but forgive me, lily, if I'm perceiving your meaning the wrong way.
No, that is exactely what I mean. Like Camilla, I think when she wanted to go to the Diana memorial, I think it was because she wanted to leave the bad memories behind, and respect Diana as a person, even though she probably had very bad memories because of her. See, I think the ability to forgive is a good thing. That doesn't mean you have to forget, and if the memories are too bad you just might to distance yourself from a person, but I think things like hatred or revenge just mainly hurt yourself.
I hope if Diana would have been alive, she would have been able to do the same thing.
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  #320  
Old 01-05-2008, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
Rigidity is a dangerous trap, Sky. At some point, we have to let things go and be flexible. I think that is what lilytornado means to say, but forgive me, lily, if I'm perceiving your meaning the wrong way.
Sorry, I am not into unconditional, time after time forgiveness, there are only so many times one can 'forgive' a person. Even then one may 'forgive', but one should never forget!
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