When did your opinion of Diana change and why?

[TheTruth]

Grandmother Fermoy or whatever her name is took care of that situation for Diana by testifying against her own daughter. That has got to be one of the most wicked, evil human beings I have read about in a long time. I hope her life was as miserable and painful for her as it appears to be from reading about her.

She was more concerned about the title "Earl" and her own connection to the RF than her own flesh and blood. Sickening to me.

Yes, that disgusts me as well. I don't remember what were Lady Fremoy's arguments against her own daughter. Wasn't it something about Frances drinking problems or whatever ? Anyway, she did alot of damage to the family and the children were the first victims.

 

[sirhon11234]

Frances fainted in court after Lady Fermoy's testimony. Fermoy was nothing but a social climber.

 

[jcbcode99]

I"ve read that, too. What a female role model she must have been! And,Lady Fermoy and the Queen Mum did push the marriage....

 

[TheTruth]

I"ve read that, too. What a female role model she must have been! And,Lady Fermoy and the Queen Mum did push the marriage....

Absolutely ! How come someone can be so powerful over others ?! I've never liked Lady Fermoy and never will. I think she wanted to get revenge and accomplish everything she couldn't do in her life through her grandchildren and in particular through Diana. When she saw the occasion, she jumped on it and didn't let go.

 

[diamondBrg]

I"ve read that, too. What a female role model she must have been! And,Lady Fermoy and the Queen Mum did push the marriage....

Diana's grandmother/father PUSHING the marriage, Charle's father PUSHING the marriage along with the Queen Mother, seems alot of powerful people wanted that marriage to take place.

TOO BAD, Prince Charles and Lady Diana were NOT numbered among them. Both it seems DID NOT want to go through with it, but felt they had no choice.

Think about that, you are going to get married, to someone you REALLY don't want to marry and you feel VERY UNEASY about getting married to, but feel you have no choice, WHAT A PATHETIC POSITION OF PERSONAL POWERLESSNESS to have to experience.

I do hold Charles and Diana accountable though, they were ADULTS and both should have had the backbone to say NO and mean it.

So what if Charles never married and had children, he had a sister that had already had children and both his brothers wound up with children of their own. It is not like the Monarchy would have died with him.

 

[ashelen]

yes, the only reason that probably theQueen Mother wanted iane was to procreate the future King, once done they didn't need her anymore. She was blue blood, from good family and good looking,, she was too young at the time to see more clear and may be bllind by Charles or the fantasy of being a princess. she had a trouble childhood, everything too sad, but I don't think she was clever enought to choos the other boyfriends

 

[Roslyn]

TOO BAD, Prince Charles and Lady Diana were NOT numbered among them. Both it seems DID NOT want to go through with it, but felt they had no choice.

"He said, 'Will you marry me?' I laughed. I remember thinking: 'You know, this is a joke'. So I said: 'Yeah, OK' and laughed. And he was deadly serious. He said: 'Do you realize that one day you will be Queen?' A voice said to me inside: 'You won't be Queen but you will have a tough role.' So I thought to myself: 'OK', so I said yes."

That is, of course, a quote from Diana on the Settelen tapes. Diana also spoke about the engagement interview:

Diana: "I was brought up in the sense that, you know, when you got engaged to someone, you love them. And the most extraordinary thing is, we had this ghastly interview the day we announced our engagement. And this ridiculous ITN man said, 'Are you in love?' Oh, what a thick question! So I said, 'Yes, of course we are' in this sort of fat Sloane Ranger that I was. And Charles turned round and said "Whatever 'in love' means". That threw me completely. I thought, what a strange question."

Settelen: "And what a strange reply!"

Diana: "Oh God! Absolutely traumatised me".

Settelen: "And did you ask him about it?"

Diana: "No, I didn't dare".

Settlen: "Were you frightened?"

Diana: "Must've been, yeah ... We met 13 times before we got married."

If this does truly represent they way her mind was working when Charles proposed and at the time of the engagement interview, it's a little frightening for she doesn't seem to have had a clue what saying "Yes" would really mean for her. I don't think she was giving informed consent. As well as that, she hardly knew Charles and couldn't bring herself to ask him about the reply that had "traumatized" her.

Charles asked her to think about it but she wouldn't wait. She certainly should have, because she seems to have taken it all too lightly at that time, and when it finally did sink in and she wanted out, her face was on the teatowels and she was having thoughts about slaughtered lambs.

It's a real shame she didn't think on it a lot harder and longer. And of course it's a real shame that Charles didn't insist that she think about it a lot harder and longer. He should have insisted she not give her final answer until he returned from his overseas trip. He was the older one and knew what his proposal was asking of her, even if she didn't, and her giggling and light-hearted attitude should have put him on notice that maybe she was not giving informed consent. And if he had a closer relationship to his mother maybe the Queen would have insisted Diana think about it longer. But if he had such a close relationship with the Queen and could have discussed his thoughts and concerns with her maybe he would never have proposed.

So many variables. So much heartache.

 

[jcbcode99]

That Settlen interview was very interesting! The way Diana just opened up and told her whole life story to this man she had just met--it boggles the mind and shows how needy she was for attention. The thing that sticks in my mind from that interview was when she was speaking with Charles alone in the stables and told him that she had watched him at the funeral of Lord Mountbatten and thought that he looked so alone and needed someone to be with him--and then "he lept upon me, kissing me" and she was all like, EWWWW--people don't really behave like this......

To me--this event, from the mouth of Diana herself, tells me that Charles did care for her and was attracted to her and that perhaps there was more to the romance than we really know------did they really only meet 13 times before they got married if he was "leaping all over her" to kiss her?
Also, she talked about how they rarely had sex---I mean, really PERSONAL stuff that I'm not sure I really believed--anyone else?? I mean, it was just tooooo convenient--first day they meet, she opens up about everything--dad, mom, stepmom, Charles, etc.....--too contrived--but really also interesting--

 

[diamondBrg]

"He said, 'Will you marry me?' I laughed. I remember thinking: 'You know, this is a joke'. So I said: 'Yeah, OK' and laughed...

THANK YOU for your post and everything it illustrates, it brings out some very important points I think.

I am married and very happily. When we agreed that we wanted to be married, we knew we were in love, we were also older and spent months discussing real life stuff, families, values, wants, desires, etc and making sure ours would blend adequately.

I didn't need to question what "in love" means, I knew and IF my mate had of made such a comment just to me in private, much less in public, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO MARRIAGE, at least for several more years.

I guess I just don't understand this "for country" thing. I would NOT sacrifice my ONE life and chance for real, true personal happiness for anyone or anything. Maybe if I was like a cat and had nine lifes, I would be more generous? But with just one, NO.

 

[Roslyn]

That Settlen interview was very interesting!

Last week I found the NBC audio transcripts and downloaded part of it. I usually stay away from such things because I only have dial-up and it's very slow but I discovered audio downloads are not as bad as video. After half an hour the download was interrupted by an incoming call but to my delight I discovered that the whole thing was not wiped, so I still have some and I'll go back late one night and download the rest.

I find it fascinating to hear Diana's voice saying all those things. It's sad, too, because you realise that vibrant, giggling person you're listening to is dead now and shouldn't be.

I also found the transcript of the Larry King Live interview with Andrew Morton in March 2004 in which he talks about the making of the NBC documentary: "Princess Diana: The Secret Tapes". Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelley and Hugo Vickers join in to form a panel to comment. I found it interesting and others might too: CNN.com - Transcripts

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I also found the transcript of the Larry King Live interview with Andrew Morton in March 2004 in which he talks about the making of the NBC documentary: "Princess Diana: The Secret Tapes". Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelley and Hugo Vickers join in to form a panel to comment. I found it interesting and others might too: CNN.com - Transcripts

Thank you for the link, Roslyn.

Here's a quote which I hadn't known before (or forgotten about):
KING: Let's hear another tape. Here Diana talks about her bulimia, which she was already suffering during their honeymoon on the royal yacht. Listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PRINCESS DIANA: By then, the bulimia was appalling, absolutely appalling. It was rough. It was four times a day on the yacht. You know, anything I could find, I would gobble up and be sick two minutes later. Very tired. So of course, the mood -- slightly got the mood swings going -- intense one minute, one would be happy, the next minute, one would be blubbing one's eyes out.

(End of quote).

IIRC Diana spent the first days of her marriage at Broadlands, then they went aboard the yacht. If it is true that she only saw Charles 13 times before the marriage took place, then she must have started with bulimia immediately after being married. Or she suffered already from it but didn't confess to Charles. Either way it is absolutely shocking what had happened to the bridegroom! Talk about being a victim.... Who's the victim here?

Charles who knew so perfectly well what he must do is immediately after his marriage confronted with a wife who is obviously sick of him, of his lifestyle of everything. But still he manages to make this hell of a marriage work (at least in public) till Diana starts talking to Morton and everything blew up in his face. If that means that he has never cared I wonder what people would have wanted him to do.

And of course the RF must have known immediately that Diana was behind the book - who else could have know that much and be so much in accord with her views? With her side of the story?

 

[ysbel]

Absolutely ! How come someone can be so powerful over others ?! I've never liked Lady Fermoy and never will. I think she wanted to get revenge and accomplish everything she couldn't do in her life through her grandchildren and in particular through Diana. When she saw the occasion, she jumped on it and didn't let go.

This statement is very meaningful. I know people on this forum have asked why can't others forgive or overlook Diana's scheming, vengeful side and accept her for just being a flawed human being.

Well the best answer I can think of is the same reason that TheTruth never will like Lady Fermoy. I don't particularly like Lady Fermoy either because of her scheming and of the way she turned away from her own family. But for that same reason I will probably never really like Diana although knowing that she had Lady Fermoy as a grandmother makes me understand where Diana got this tendency.

But who knows? I know very little about Lady Fermoy and its possible that she was given away in a loveless marriage or had a horrible childhood herself so she may have had a lot of justifiable reasons for acting as she did.

I still don't like the effect she had on her family and I can say the same for Diana.

 

[Roslyn]

IIRC Diana spent the first days of her marriage at Broadlands, then they went aboard the yacht. If it is true that she only saw Charles 13 times before the marriage took place, then she must have started with bulimia immediately after being married. Or she suffered already from it but didn't confess to Charles. Either way it is absolutely shocking what had happened to the bridegroom! Talk about being a victim.... Who's the victim here?

Actually the tapes provide a timeline for the start of the bulimia. I haven't actually heard Diana saying this bit, but it appears on the original transcript I printed from the NBC site in May 2006, which is no longer available. It is confirmed in a summary of "key quotes" I found last week on a BBC News site.

"Bulimia started the week after we got engaged. My husband put his hand on my waistline and said, 'Oh, a bit chubby here, aren't we?' That triggered off something in me". (BBC site adds that Diana then said) "The first time I made myself sick I was so thrilled. It relieved me of tension. I ate everything I could and was as sick as a parrot...it was an indication of what was going on (between Charles and Camilla)". There's obviously been some editorial licence taken there, and I need to download the audio and listen to that bit myself to see if she actually said something about Charles & Camilla.

 

[Skydragon]

Quote - PRINCESS DIANA: By then, the bulimia was appalling, absolutely appalling. It was rough. It was four times a day on the yacht. You know, anything I could find, I would gobble up and be sick two minutes later. Very tired. So of course, the mood -- slightly got the mood swings going -- intense one minute, one would be happy, the next minute, one would be blubbing one's eyes out.

(End of quote).

I know I am a sceptic but I have to wonder where she got the food from so easily. Nobody has said she was in the galley four times a day and the opportunity at the dining table would have been difficult.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

A
"Bulimia started the week after we got engaged. My husband put his hand on my waistline and said, 'Oh, a bit chubby here, aren't we?' That triggered off something in me".

Thatnks again, Roslyn - I wonder if Camilla as that slim when she was young? Is Charles really such a "slimming"-fanatic? I doubt it when I see his delight with his darlin wife of today... Men don't change that much, they tend to change the model of their wife (or car) to the latest when they are that type...

Maybe Diana simply misunderstood - Charles is an outdoor-man, ever was and these men (my own hubby is one of those) often believe that being outdoors as often as possible doing sports is the best way to get a nice body - which must not be model-like but sporty. So far my husband and his like-minded friends take my and their wifes aging with compassion...

I really wonder if Charles did not try to bring Diana in a more enthusiastic mood where the outdoors were concerned. Plus "chubby" is not necessarily a word used to talk about babyfat (thought it may sound so to a 18 to 19 yo) but is an endearment as well. There are more men than not who like a bit of chubbiness in a woman, because this is definately female.

Just an idea. But of course to someone with a low self-esteem this could have led to all kinds of strange behaviours, including bulimia. What I want to point out is that even if Charles said that or something like-wise he need not have meant it as a harsh rebuke for Diana's extra pounds but there are other interpretations possible. And why did she never think for a moment to ask him how he meant that? If he wanted her to change? Or if she was okay? Really, they shoulöd have talked to each other before they got married...

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I know I am a sceptic but I have to wonder where she got the food from so easily. Nobody has said she was in the galley four times a day and the opportunity at the dining table would have been difficult.

Depends on how much you can eat in the beginning. If you are not used to eating that much, then two pieces of cake are enough to feel full enough for the problems to start. Later you need more and more to get to the point where you feel full enough to vomit (or so I read).

But then, it takes quzite a time till a full-fledged bulimia is contracted and maybe on looking back, Diana exaggerated. I think as well that the new princess was watched closely those first days or week into the marriage (but she must have realised that she was to be the absolute novum at court! So of course all people within her new sphere were extremely curious) - if she really had had a full-fledged bulimia already, it would have been out due to rumours, especially as she got thinner and thinner.

But my experience is another: it doesn't start as eating/vomit-disorder. First there is the wish to get slimmer at all costs. Tablets are taken to reduced the feeling of being hungry (they were freely available back then, today it's know that you could contracts bulimia from taking them because they are psychopharmaca working in that part of the brain and they are not for sale anymore). Because it doesn't go fast enough, all food is being expelled from the body through vomiting. But still the body cries for food - if you can overhear this cry, it's anorexia. If you eat and vomit, it's bulimia. But it starts out innocently enough with the wish to slim down.

I guess once Diana was hooked on the eating/vomiting routine, she organized her life accordingly. That's maybe where the compartimentalising of her life started: her lady-in-waiting saw her on official occasions, maybe at an official lunch but she did not see what Diana had for dinner or breakfast. Her detective saw what she ate while travelling, but he could not see what she ate during meals. Only Charles was able to drop in at all the occasions and to realise what was going on. And I guess that made him an unliked taskmaster because he surely tried to help her - but not on consoling her but on stopping her erratic behaviour first. But you can't console real addicts, you can only force them to realise what they do. And with Diana I believe her psychological problems got so serious after she felt trapped by her position that only serious psychiatric help could have helped her.

 

[jcbcode99]

I know I am a sceptic but I have to wonder where she got the food from so easily. Nobody has said she was in the galley four times a day and the opportunity at the dining table would have been difficult.

I have wondered that myself--we all know she liked to play the victim. I know it sounds harsh, but I cannot help but wonder all the same

 

[Skydragon]

I have wondered that myself--we all know she liked to play the victim. I know it sounds harsh, but I cannot help but wonder all the same

Further to Jo's post, none of the kitchen staff have come out and said she was constantly helping herself to food and the poor so and so's do tend to be on duty at all hours. Servants would have served her at meal times, even at informal meals there tends to be someone hovering close by and she was constantly surrounded by people.

If she had been vomitting on the ship, someone would have heard her and of course smelt the vomit, either in the head or on her. They only carry a small amount of mouthwash, which if you think back to 1981, was not that common in the UK!

Many people do diet themselves thin and many more lose weight through stress, but that isn't a bandwagon worth jumping on.

"Bulimia started the week after we got engaged. My husband put his hand on my waistline and said, 'Oh, a bit chubby here, aren't we?' That triggered off something in me

I just can't quite see any betrothed saying that, least of all Charles. Now 'broad across the beam', is an expression Charles might have used, in jest.

 

[rmay286]

Diana's comments are interesting but I don't always trust them, one way or another. I think she was highly prone to exaggerate and distort the truth to fit her version of events. Quite possibly she didn't even fully realize she was distorting actual events. She probably believed that however she felt at the moment, she must have felt in the past as well.

 

[carewandroscoe]

diana spencer

my opinion of princess diana has not changed. she is a direct descendant of john churchill, older sister arabella put out for buckingham, first duke of marleborough. diana spencer married beneath her social class.

 

[Skydragon]

my opinion of princess diana has not changed. she is a direct descendant of john churchill, older sister arabella put out for buckingham, first duke of marleborough. diana spencer married beneath her social class.

Royal trumps Aristocrat - John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
John Churchill started out as a lowly page

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Royal trumps Aristocrat - John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
John Churchill started out as a lowly page

Skydragon, you are making it too complicated... From the Wiki-article:

His (John Churchills) rise to prominence began as a lowly page in the royal court of Stuart England, but his natural courage on the field of battle soon ensured quick promotion and recognition from his master and mentor James, Duke of York. When James became king in 1685, Churchill played a major role in crushing the Duke of Monmouth's rebellion....

and so on....

So even if Diana Spencer was a descendant of this John Churchill, Charles is the heir of those Stuart kings in direct line - descended from James VI. of Scotland who became James I. of England in 1601.

Plus the "lowly" Hannoverans are one and the same as the famous "Gelphs" whose fight with the "Ghibellines" made most of the politic in Europe in the 1300s - when nobody in the world was much interested in British isles apart from the Plantagenets and their barons - ah, and the Welsh, of course....

I wish people would know more about history and the people making this history before they belittle Charles and his ancestry.

 

[normalil]

My opinion of Diana has never changed, except to sink further. I never liked or trusted her, and still see her as very selfish, obsessed with herself, and totally devoid of dignity. She was a consummate actress and manipulator. I hope that this does not offend anyone, but my thoughts were asked for, so here they are.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

"Bulimia started the week after we got engaged. My husband put his hand on my waistline and said, 'Oh, a bit chubby here, aren't we?' That triggered off something in me".

Ugh. This quote from Diana always pissed me off. She always put blame on others. Everything was always someone else's fault.

With the Oliver Hoare phone stuff, she was pissed off at him and his wife, because they would not "defend" her in the press. They maintained a dignified silence, and that made her angry. She had the nerve to make nuisance calls to their house, then she had the audacity to call him a "scared rabbit". In my opinion, Diana was the scared rabbit, because she never took accountability for her actions. I would have so much more respect and empathy for her if only she had accepted responsibility for her mistakes. But she never did. It was always someone else's problem.

 

[BeatrixFan]

And as anyone knows, it takes a little more than one person telling you you're a bit chubby to lead to bulimia. Eating disorders aren't 'triggered off', they're a long time in develop and are as much a part of you at birth as they are at your death.

 

[jcbcode99]

My opinion of Diana has never changed, except to sink further. I never liked or trusted her, and still see her as very selfish, obsessed with herself, and totally devoid of dignity. She was a consummate actress and manipulator. I hope that this does not offend anyone, but my thoughts were asked for, so here they are.

I laughed out loud when I read this--but I have to agree. She went from fairytale princess to manipulative princess to bitter ex-wife and wanted to take down people in her path.

I do think that Diana has exaggerated about her bulimia--and I do think she tried to blame Charles for it and to paint him as the reason for her insecurities--I think that is despicable. I say if you have a problem, you need to own the problem and deal with it. Constantly pushing it off on another person continues the problem. She contantly pushed her problems and issues off on others.

As for Diana marrying beneath her--the rules of succession are in place for a reason and the Crown goes to where it belongs--besides, did anyone really want to see Raine Spencer as Queen Consort? Or Charles, the Current Earl as the King? UGH.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

As for Diana marrying beneath her--the rules of succession are in place for a reason and the Crown goes to where it belongs--besides, did anyone really want to see Raine Spencer as Queen Consort? Or Charles, the Current Earl as the King? UGH.

Charles Spencer as an HRH would be horrific, and in that case I would certainly sympathize with the Republicans! But Raine being a royal would not be so bad. I like Raine. She is hilarious. She was also a good wife to Diana's father. Diana probably hated her so much out of jealousy because Raine took so much attention from Johnnie that *should* have gone to Diana.

 

[TheTruth]

There will always be something that I won't like about Diana, some of her reactions or behavior that I disapprove but for me, that's what makes the charm of the person. It's terrible to say it but it wouldn't be fun if she had been perfect don't you think ?

 

[BeatrixFan]

I laughed out loud when I read this--but I have to agree. She went from fairytale princess to manipulative princess to bitter ex-wife and wanted to take down people in her path.

I do think that Diana has exaggerated about her bulimia--and I do think she tried to blame Charles for it and to paint him as the reason for her insecurities--I think that is despicable. I say if you have a problem, you need to own the problem and deal with it. Constantly pushing it off on another person continues the problem. She contantly pushed her problems and issues off on others.

As for Diana marrying beneath her--the rules of succession are in place for a reason and the Crown goes to where it belongs--besides, did anyone really want to see Raine Spencer as Queen Consort? Or Charles, the Current Earl as the King? UGH.

YES! I wanted to see Barbara Cartland as Queen Mother too. God that would have been fabulous.

 

[rani]

Whatever her actions,Diana was used. She was used to obtain an heir and spare. She was used by her husband,who really didn't want anyone but Camilla. She was used by Camilla who wouldn't let go. The entire royal family knew what was going on,and willingly sacrificed a young woman. Her subsequent actions were to carve a place for herself,and eventually when she lost an unwinnable battle,an attempt to maintain her place in her children's lives and a useful role for herself.