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  #61  
Old 08-06-2016, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
No-one on the Diana threads has stated that Oliver Hoare or Carling have no right to be h


And why is Diana responsible for the loss, if any, of these men's reputations or for people criticising their role? As I've stated in my previous post, if a husband decides to commit adultery does he bear no responsibility?

And No, I realise it's never the right time, the right thread, the right anything to get to the nitty gritty of Camilla's motivations and part in the destruction of Diana and Charles's marriage. It's remarkable really.
I dont blame Camila for thte destruction of the marriage, i think it was a marriage that was definitely going to end in some kind of failure, but I do think "if Di's charity work does not "make up" for her affairs, what about Charles? Does HIS work as POW and his charities count as more important than his sexual follies?
if she was unfit for the RF and as Princess of wales because she had some affairs, what about him?
As for Carling and Hoare, they have been pretty much gentlemen in that they have refused to talk about Diana and Carling has denied any sexual involvment with her. I haven't seen anyone denigrating them.. and if people have clalled Hewitt " a cad", its becuase he is...
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  #62  
Old 08-06-2016, 09:27 AM
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In answer to the original question, it probably started from the outset!

This rather staid (dispite having it's own young members) Royal Family had a new and fresh member ..... barely out of her teens and already The Princess of Wales; less than a year after that, still only 20, mother to the 2nd in line to the throne!

She shook things up a bit and made the family more interesting to read about.
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  #63  
Old 08-06-2016, 04:19 PM
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well the RF has takne in new members over the years. I think ti was something about Diana herself that made her a star, made her stand out from the rest and gradually overshadow the others. And of course there had been a long time since there had been a princess of Wales, ie a young new female who had come inot the RF from outside.. but had a high ranking in the Royal Hierarchy. And it had something to do with the times.. the 1980s were "big" and vulgar, the press had more and more power. Social deference to the RF was waning, but admiration of glitz and celebrity in the press and the public was growing. The newspaper editors of the 80s were engaged in circulaton wars, and they didn't care about upsetting the RF, in pusuite of a story.. they relished the idea that they had the power to shake up and anoy the RF.
And Diana too increasingly didn't care if she upset the RF.. so she was willing to collaborate to an extent...
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  #64  
Old 08-06-2016, 07:22 PM
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When you think about it, it was the days of 'Dallas' and 'Dynasty' when everything was up front and in your face. The days of big hair, big jewels, big fashion, big money and big scandal.

I don't think we can easily dismiss Diana's charisma. While it drew people to her like a magnet, it also drew scandal rags in search of a big story. From the moment Diana was photographed with the sun shining through her skirt, she was cemented into their lenses as an ingénue in the BRF.

The royal wedding wasn't big, it was huge, and she appeared in big hair, big (or more importantly, real) jewels, in the biggest fashion statement of the decade. From that moment she became the most photographed woman in the world. A tribute to excess in style, fashion and jewellery and they quite forgot she was a real person and the BRF was a real family, not a syndicated TV show.
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  #65  
Old 08-06-2016, 07:38 PM
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It is easy, Diana came at a time when the RF was staid, and frumpy. And there she was a star. Lovely and got even more attractive. Very fashionable, which may not be the epitome a person's worth, is how woman are often judged. And she was not stuffy. She showed warmth and kindness, without gloves, so to speak. She showed affection and touched her children and hugged and kissed them. And, as she grew into the role, she became a physical knockout. She was the attraction. Catherine, can be the same, but not in the same position and not needy as Diana. There is no permanent mistress. Diana loved the camera and the camera loved her. Charles was needy, too. He could not stand in her shadow. And he did. What actually transpire between them as a couple, know one really knows. They grew apart for several reason, I think, one being they had nothing in common. Two Charles has headier interests and needed a mother. He got that in Camilla. She is not in front. And he got that back in Diana's days, too. Diana was foolish. Her affairs and such put her in a difficult light. She was not going to be Queen Alexandra, to his Edward VII. he was not going to invite Mrs. Keppel in.
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  #66  
Old 08-06-2016, 07:45 PM
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I don't believe they grew apart because I don't believe they were ever really together. I don't realy understand all this Mrs Keppel stuff, but I think that Charles did want a wife who didn't overshadow him, but that's what a royal wife (or husband of a royal woman) is required to do, be the support act. If she is more dazzling than he is, she has to turn it down a bit. Diana didn't intend to overshadow him at first but her whole appeal was SO amazing that I think she could not help being more popular and it was hard for him to avoid being a b it jealous.
He also wanted a woman who shared his interests. Diana didn't do that and before long, she pretty much stopped trying or fooling herself. So Charles had the worst of botht worlds, a woman who was more adored than him in public, and who didn't give him any real companionship in thteir private life.
I think if they had gotten on in private, he would have adjusted to her being more publicly loved, but Diana didn't get on with him in private.
and in time, she began to use her star appeal to deliberately put him down...
I don't believe her affairs had anythng to do with the downfall of the marriage. I think by the time she started having lovers it was all over.
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  #67  
Old 08-08-2016, 11:32 AM
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In my mind, the '80s and Diana are almost inseparable. It was a glitzy, aspirational decade, and she was its most famous face. The younger members of BRF had become so enmeshed in popular culture that they was seen as corresponding to characters in American soap operas. The situation begged for a plot with villains, vixens, and good girls and boys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
When you think about it, it was the days of 'Dallas' and 'Dynasty' when everything was up front and in your face. The days of big hair, big jewels, big fashion, big money and big scandal.
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  #68  
Old 08-09-2016, 05:32 AM
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I think ti was a lot to do with the circulation wars of newspapers and the increasing power of the Meida, TV, papers etc. And the increasing lack of social deference and the papers beig willing to do anyting to get a story, and not caring if it annoyed the Palace
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  #69  
Old 04-23-2018, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I don't believe they grew apart because I don't believe they were ever really together. I don't realy understand all this Mrs Keppel stuff, but I think that Charles did want a wife who didn't overshadow him, but that's what a royal wife (or husband of a royal woman) is required to do, be the support act. If she is more dazzling than he is, she has to turn it down a bit. Diana didn't intend to overshadow him at first but her whole appeal was SO amazing that I think she could not help being more popular and it was hard for him to avoid being a bit jealous.
He also wanted a woman who shared his interests. Diana didn't do that and before long, she pretty much stopped trying or fooling herself. So Charles had the worst of both worlds, a woman who was more adored than him in public, and who didn't give him any real companionship in their private life.
I think if they had gotten on in private, he would have adjusted to her being more publicly loved, but Diana didn't get on with him in private.
and in time, she began to use her star appeal to deliberately put him down...
I don't believe her affairs had anythng to do with the downfall of the marriage. I think by the time she started having lovers it was all over.
At the end of the day I can not quite see -- how her creating a level of hysteria in public in some way 'hurt' the marriage. Why to some degree it wouldn't be been seen as a rare, unusual, exciting thing, in terms of how much press it brought both parties and the entire monarchy ? If a fervor surrounding town appearances was reminiscent of what took place with the '64 Beatles, it could have been cause for high spirits and fun...rather than disillusionment perhaps.

At some late date she reflected on where she stood within the Royal family: "They have so misinterpreted me.." Suggesting she did not feel the world revolved around her, wasn't preoccupied with her 'place' in the hierarchy regardless of newspaper coverage or public adoration.
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  #70  
Old 04-25-2018, 02:07 PM
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For one thing the RF aren't the Beatles and while they want a reasonable popularity, they are also hierarchical in how they think. Charles was meant to be the leader of the couple and Diana outshone him. Since their marriage was already shaky, his reaction to this was negative....
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  #71  
Old 04-25-2018, 05:43 PM
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I think that the celebrification of Diana started when she took the picture with the school children in the see through skirt. No that did not make her a phenomenon but that definitely put her on the map, and once the media and public sensed that she was "the one" then it grew, and of course took off once she became the Princess of Wales.
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  #72  
Old 04-25-2018, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
For one thing the RF aren't the Beatles and while they want a reasonable popularity, they are also hierarchical in how they think. Charles was meant to be the leader of the couple and Diana outshone him. Since their marriage was already shaky, his reaction to this was negative....
I think part of it is how Charles was raised. He has been the heir to the throne since he can remember and he has always been the focus of the attention. Now all of sudden, not only is Diana outshining him, but he’s getting bad reaction from people that’s on his side at walkabouts. That’s foreign to him. He was glad Diana was accepted and popular with the public at first, but over time, that grew old. I do think he’s learnt to deal with that much better in his older years as his sons eclipsed him in popularity. It has to do with self-confidence as well.
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  #73  
Old 04-27-2018, 01:39 AM
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Well obviously he is a lot happier in his personal life, now, and problaby feels that it is inevitable that his 2 sons, being younger are going to attract more media attention and he's Ok with that because he has a happy marriage now. But his marriage to Diana was always shaky and his being sidelined by the Press for her, upset and annoyed him. And I think the RF as a whole were a little alarmed by Di-mania.. THey were used to a certain admiration.. but this was crazy adulation.. and while Di at first didn't actullaly DO anything to cause it, I would say that they like Charles, were not too happy that she took so much of the focus off them and off Charles.....
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