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  #381  
Old 05-07-2017, 03:18 PM
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Coincidences

I get it every now and then that I find something interesting about something being discussed in a way that can only be described as being a coincidence.

After reading the recent postings here on Diana's ancestry and relations, I settled down to read a book I just got in the mail on Diana called "The Diana Chronicles" by Tina Brown. Found something very interesting that I didn't know before so thought I'd share it.

Diana's grandfather, Maurice Roche, 4th Baron Fermoy (husband to Lady Ruth Fermoy, a good friend to the Queen Mother) had an illegitimate child by his mistress Edith Travis, an American he would see when he traveled to the States. Their daughter, Edith Howitt Hodgins, went public in a book on her mother's devotion to Diana's grandfather in 2004 called "Lilac Days.

Thought it would add another leaf to Diana's family tree as Diana and Edith Howitt Hodgins share a grandfather in common even though one was born on the wrong side of the blanket so to speak.

This is the synopsis of the book from amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/Lilac-Days-Se...Howitt+Hodgins
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  #382  
Old 05-07-2017, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
I could imagine that refers to this:



in a way that for your personal status it doesn't matter of how many royals you descend compared to another person.
The last couple of posts have a strong reminiscence of the "who is more royal, Diana or the Windsors" discussion which occasionally shows up again (and imo is an irrelevant discussion)

But purely for genealogical purposes ofcourse it is interesting, because the more royals you have in your family tree, the easier it is to trace your ancestors and the further back you can get back
It's only interesting to me, because I'm very interested in the genealogy of the British Royal Family--and anyone connected to it. Genealogy wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Conclusion: the Prince of Wales married a daughter of a respected countryside nobleman. And in the genealogical tree there is a link to a bastard of King Charles II.

That sounds negative but is not. Often bastards climbed to high positions in society. They were often openly recognizable as a bastard branch by a bar on their coat-of-arms:

Example: Bourbon-Parma with three fleurs-de-lys and Bourbon-Busset with the same arms but with a bar. That bar shows that the Bourbon-Bussets proudly carry the French royal arms but are not dynasts of the Royal House because they are descendants of a 13th c bastard.

But the coat of arms does not show the Bourbon-Bousset's are illegitimate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I get it every now and then that I find something interesting about something being discussed in a way that can only be described as being a coincidence.

After reading the recent postings here on Diana's ancestry and relations, I settled down to read a book I just got in the mail on Diana called "The Diana Chronicles" by Tina Brown. Found something very interesting that I didn't know before so thought I'd share it.

Diana's grandfather, Maurice Roche, 4th Baron Fermoy (husband to Lady Ruth Fermoy, a good friend to the Queen Mother) had an illegitimate child by his mistress Edith Travis, an American he would see when he traveled to the States. Their daughter, Edith Howitt Hodgins, went public in a book on her mother's devotion to Diana's grandfather in 2004 called "Lilac Days.

Thought it would add another leaf to Diana's family tree as Diana and Edith Howitt Hodgins share a grandfather in common even though one was born on the wrong side of the blanket so to speak.

This is the synopsis of the book from amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/Lilac-Days-Se...Howitt+Hodgins
Very interesting! I started to read "Diana Chronicles" but stopped after a couple pages. Now I know that I definitely need to start reading it again!
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  #383  
Old 05-10-2017, 01:09 PM
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I hope we all can still contribute questions about Diana's ancestry/bloodline.

Who are some interesting English/British noble families she descends from--that we haven't discussed? Even though, of course, this is opinion.
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  #384  
Old 05-10-2017, 02:42 PM
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OK. I'm not really that much into tracing family trees and such but you might find this interesting.

Recently I posted about Maurice Roche, 4th Baron Fermoy who's wife was Lady Ruth Fermoy, a good friend of the Queen Mum. Going back one step furthur, we have American socialite Frances Work who married James, 3rd Baron Fermoy who's oldest son was Maurice. So that makes her Diana's great grandmother.

Another interesting tidbit is that Harry and William, having Frances Work Roche as a great great grandmother, through this lineage they also have Oliver Platt, an American actor who shares the same great great grandmother.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Ellen_Work

https://famouskin.com/famous-kin-cha...by+burke+roche

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Platt

So, this kind of shows that should Harry and Meghan Markle get engaged and married, he wouldn't be the first in his family tree to have married an American.
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  #385  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
[.....]

But the coat of arms does not show the Bourbon-Bousset's are illegitimate.

[.....]
Yes it does. The red "barre" or "baton sinister" in the royal arms of France shows that the Bourbon-Bussets are an illegitimate branch of the French royal family.

Another example:


We see the Royal Arms with England, Scotland and Ireland. In the heartshield we see the Arms of Hannover. These are the arms of King William IV of Great-Britain and Hannover. There is a "baton sinister" over these double royal arms, which stand for bastardry, an illegitimate branch.

And indeed: it was the Arms of the Earls of Munster (extinct in 2000) an illegitimate branch of the royal family which started with the eldest illegitimate son of the King, with an actress.
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  #386  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
I hope we all can still contribute questions about Diana's ancestry/bloodline.

Who are some interesting English/British noble families she descends from--that we haven't discussed? Even though, of course, this is opinion.
you can find all families from all your lists
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  #387  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
OK. I'm not really that much into tracing family trees and such but you might find this interesting.

Recently I posted about Maurice Roche, 4th Baron Fermoy who's wife was Lady Ruth Fermoy, a good friend of the Queen Mum. Going back one step furthur, we have American socialite Frances Work who married James, 3rd Baron Fermoy who's oldest son was Maurice. So that makes her Diana's great grandmother.

Another interesting tidbit is that Harry and William, having Frances Work Roche as a great great grandmother, through this lineage they also have Oliver Platt, an American actor who shares the same great great grandmother.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Ellen_Work

https://famouskin.com/famous-kin-cha...by+burke+roche

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Platt

So, this kind of shows that should Harry and Meghan Markle get engaged and married, he wouldn't be the first in his family tree to have married an American.
Very true! :)

I read in an article that William and Harry are descended from Mary Boleyn (sister of Anne) through three separate lines.
Is that true?
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  #388  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:33 AM
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If you go over to the British Royal Family Genealogy thread, I've already posted those 3 lines for you.
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  #389  
Old 05-27-2017, 02:03 PM
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Is Diana related to any Irish noble families?
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  #390  
Old 06-14-2017, 12:12 PM
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Question

Hi, my name is Sophia, and because of the information you have been sharing I have found out that I am related to Princess Diana! I know I am related to King Henry the 4th of France, so it was quite something to know she was related as well. My last name is Carey, I am a bloodline Carey, so I am also related to Robert, Henry, and all the other Carey's you have mentioned. I just was wondering if anyone knew how Diana was related to the Carey's? To Robert in particular. Was he an uncle of some sorts? Or a cousin? It would be amazing if someone knew! You have all been a real help!! Thank you!
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  #391  
Old 07-09-2017, 07:04 AM
eya eya is offline
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A collection of Countess Raine Spencer artefacts are to be auctioned off at Christie's in London
Charlotte Di Carcaci, daughter of Raine shares details of her mum's life

Diana’s stepmother Raine Spencer artefacts up for auction | Daily Mail Online
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  #392  
Old 07-09-2017, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eya View Post
A collection of Countess Raine Spencer artefacts are to be auctioned off at Christie's in London
Charlotte Di Carcaci, daughter of Raine shares details of her mum's life

Diana’s stepmother Raine Spencer artefacts up for auction | Daily Mail Online
Why would anyone want "artefacts" from that woman's life? It's not like she was anybody other than the "stepmother of" a woman who was unhappily married to a future king. Why would anybody pay for her junk? None of the things pictured look to be worth much.

Having said that . . . the auction will probably bring in millions. It's not like rich people have taste so they can be persuaded to buy anything.
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  #393  
Old 07-09-2017, 11:13 AM
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I'd say that Raine was definitely a personalty and well known in in her own right and as the wife of a rich man I am sure that her things are worth sioemthing.
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  #394  
Old 11-28-2017, 09:03 AM
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Nobody seemed to answer my question about if Diana is related to any Irish noble families.
Here's a new question i have: Is she related to any Kings or Queens of Italy (that ruled after Italy unified)?
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  #395  
Old 11-28-2017, 09:05 AM
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Queen E2 fan...you can probably google Diana's family tree and find all that out.


LaRae
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  #396  
Old 11-28-2017, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Nobody seemed to answer my question about if Diana is related to any Irish noble families.
Here's a new question i have: Is she related to any Kings or Queens of Italy (that ruled after Italy unified)?
well yes, she is related to the Fermoys family, which is a peerage in the nobility of Ireland... her mother was the daughter of Baron Fermoy.
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  #397  
Old 12-05-2017, 12:58 PM
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Does anyone have a full list of all the royal houses Diana is (and isn't) related to? It would help my research!
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  #398  
Old 12-05-2017, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Does anyone have a full list of all the royal houses Diana is (and isn't) related to? It would help my research!


If you send me a PM, I can send this to you when I get home from work today.
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  #399  
Old 12-06-2017, 06:55 AM
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Ish, I sent you a PM yesterday. Did you get it?
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  #400  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:39 PM
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Sorry, QueenElizabeth2Fan, I didn't get home until late last night.

I can't list every royal house that Diana was related to... that's too vague of a request for me to be able to easily put together. To be frank, the Spencers are likely related in one way or another to every Royal house in Europe... as is pretty much anyone in Europe. "Related" is very relative (pun not intended), and trying to figure out how two people are related if it's not close is a massive nuisance unless you're using one of those databases that will search it for you. Diana's descended from Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor, which means that she's related to Marie Louise of Hesse-Kassel, who with her husband Johan Willem Friso, Prince of Orange, is the most recent common ancestor of every currently reigning European monarch as well as many of the non-reigning royal houses in Europe. Which means Diana's related to all of them, in one way or another.

That said, I can tell you some of the Royal Houses that Diana descended from, based on what I kept track of. I've made a complete ancestry chart for William and Kate, but as it's some 15,000 people large it's not easy to go through and make a list of every royal house that she descended from. I did make notes regarding specific houses though.

Through her father Diana was descended from:
  • 21 English monarch
  • 4 British monarchs
  • 21 Scottish monarchs
  • 12 Welsh monarchs
  • 7 Wessex monarchs
  • 17 Aragon monarchs
  • 20 Castile monarchs
  • 27 Leon monarchs
  • 31 Navarre monarchs
  • 23 Bohemian monarchs
  • 17 Austrian monarchs
  • 27 Holy Roman Emperors
  • 18 Hungarian monarchs
  • 19 Polish monarchs
  • 10 Portugese monarchs
  • 27 French monarchs
  • 19 Norwegian monarchs
  • 16 Swedish monarchs
  • 18 Danish monarch
Through her mother Diana was descended from

  • 18 English monarch
  • 19 Scottish monarchs
  • 12 Welsh monarchs
  • 7 Wessex monarchs
  • 8 Aragon monarchs
  • 8 Castile monarchs
  • 14 Leon monarchs
  • 16 Navarre monarchs
  • 17 Bohemian monarchs
  • 9 Austrian monarchs
  • 18 Holy Roman Emperors
  • 14 Hungarian monarchs
  • 13 Polish monarchs
  • 3 Portugese monarchs
  • 21 French monarchs
  • 15 Norwegian monarchs
  • 15 Swedish monarchs
  • 14 Danish monarchs
That's not combined, as there are common ancestors within that. So, while Earl Spencer was descended from 21 English monarchs and Frances Roche was descended from 18, Prince William is only descended from 21 monarchs (not a combined 39).
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