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  #141  
Old 12-21-2010, 04:12 PM
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I agree with that assessment.

Sometimes you have to reach rock bottom before you start the climb up. And definitely that interview was rock bottom.
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  #142  
Old 12-21-2010, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
This is where I was going with this, too - if she was slashing her arms and legs why was it never seen or remarked upon - as it most definitely would have been.
Diana, Princess of Wales cut herself on her body because she was calling out for help. If you were a public person you could wear clothes in public to hide the cuts. I believe she cut herself Tyger.

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Question(s): did Diana actually see a therapist? Wasn't it to a therapist that she supposedly mentioned the suicide attempts? She spoke of them in the Morton book, correct? But at the time of the Panorama Interview, was her involvement in the Morton book known to the public? Sorry for all the questions.
When Princess Diana was on her three month honeymoon and acting strange Prince Charles had her go to a few therapist. She rejected them all. Diana was from a aristocratic society that looked down on medication.
Princess Diana got pregnant so fast that she could not take pills because it would hurt the fetus. Unfortunately, because the princess did/could not take medication and counseling her marriage was ruined. I always felt that if Princess Diana did have some time before starting a family and follow a therapist's orders she might be alive today and still married to Prince Charles.

After her death Andrew Morton said that Diana, Princess of Wales authorized the book.
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  #143  
Old 12-21-2010, 11:18 PM
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Or even if she could have postponed some of her engagements--like that trip to Wales early in her pregnancy--and had more time as a young mother before being a full-time, working Princess of Wales. The Queen was brought up as a princess and after the age of 10 knew what her future would be. There's no way she could quite have understood the pressures on someone in Diana's position.

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I always felt that if Princess Diana did have some time before starting a family and follow a therapist's orders she might be alive today and still married to Prince Charles.
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  #144  
Old 12-21-2010, 11:26 PM
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Seems both Diana and Sarah Ferguson had huge self esteem issues and insecurities and this was a huge piece of what lead to the problems they had/issues
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  #145  
Old 12-21-2010, 11:28 PM
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It could also explain their strong attraction to Royal men--reflected glory.


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Seems both Diana and Sarah Ferguson had huge self esteem issues and insecurities and this was a huge piece of what lead to the problems they had/issues
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  #146  
Old 12-22-2010, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
When Princess Diana was on her three month honeymoon and acting strange Prince Charles had her go to a few therapists. She rejected them all. Diana was from an aristocratic society that looked down on medication.
I had no idea that problems were evident that soon in the marriage. That is significant. Where does this information come from?
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  #147  
Old 12-22-2010, 02:08 AM
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Diana talked about her emotional difficulties on her honeymoon in Her True Story. She said that she thought that he was in touch with Camilla all the time. She spoke as well about being put on medication but not taking it because of her pregnancy. I'm going to take a quick look at Bradford's book and see whether there's a reference in there.

Here it is: "She was sent down to London to see analysts and psychiatrists and given a Valium prescription in a vain attempt to calm her. Vain because there could be no effective cure for her unhappiness, which was caused by basic insecurity and the tortured fears or unrequited love. The shadow of Camilla had lain over the relationship from the start."


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I had no idea that problems were evident that soon in the marriage. That is significant. Where does this information come from?
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  #148  
Old 12-22-2010, 02:28 AM
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Why do I also think Prince Charles' official biography also mentioned it. I borrowed the book from the library and scanned some pages which were important not sure whether or not I scanned that bit but maybe someone with the book can check for us?
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  #149  
Old 12-22-2010, 02:33 AM
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I have that, too; I'll take a look now.

Dimbleby writes that Charles got psychiatric help for Diana in the fall of 1982 and that she "dispensed with his services" sometime around Harry's birth, saying that she was feeling better. So Bradford says that therapy started very early in the marriage, and Dimbleby says that it was after William's birth. In any case, it would have been between the late summer or early fall of 1981 and the fall of 1982. Quite early on, then.
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  #150  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
Diana, Princess of Wales cut herself on her body because she was calling out for help. If you were a public person you could wear clothes in public to hide the cuts. I believe she cut herself Tyger.
She was frequently seen in brief bikinis throughout her marriage - even when pregnant with no signs of these cuts on the legs.

I don't believe she ever cut herself - but I do believe that she convinced herself that she did.


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When Princess Diana was on her three month honeymoon and acting strange Prince Charles had her go to a few therapist. She rejected them all. Diana was from a aristocratic society that looked down on medication.
I don't agree as Charles was from an aristocratic family and was advising her to seek help.

She refused for her own reasons but not because she looked down on medication due to her background.

Quote:
Princess Diana got pregnant so fast that she could not take pills because it would hurt the fetus. Unfortunately, because the princess did/could not take medication and counseling her marriage was ruined. I always felt that if Princess Diana did have some time before starting a family and follow a therapist's orders she might be alive today and still married to Prince Charles.
That marriage had no chance. She went into in not trusting her husband and he didn't realise how needy she was. They had virtually nothing in common on which to build a relationship. They should never have married at all.

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After her death Andrew Morton said that Diana, Princess of Wales authorized the book.

She confirmed it herself before she died and even before the divorce.
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  #151  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Dimbleby writes that Charles got psychiatric help for Diana in the fall of 1982 and that she "dispensed with his services" sometime around Harry's birth, saying that she was feeling better. So Bradford says that therapy started very early in the marriage, and Dimbleby says that it was after William's birth. In any case, it would have been between the late summer or early fall of 1981 and the fall of 1982. Quite early on, then.
Yup that's it thanks for looking it up for us I also agree that they both messed the marriage up from the start.The more I watch the interviews prior to the wedding the more I cringe. Oddly enough I cringe more watching the Morton tapes then when I watch the Panorama interview though I'm not sure why. IMO it didn't seem as "woe is me" as the Morton tapes
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  #152  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Diana talked about her emotional difficulties on her honeymoon in Her True Story. She said that she thought that he was in touch with Camilla all the time.
I have some questions in my mind about exactly what was actually happening with Diana vis-a-vis Camilla early in the marriage (since Camilla was being the friend to her as one of Charles' circle) and what she later claimed. Those stories in the Morton book are meant to convince us that she was wronged from the get-go - and given the evidence that she lied when it suited her - I am left doubting what she claimed. I believe I am seeing a re-construction of the early years, with 'evidence' supplied - potentially even manufactured - only in retrospect.

It seems to me that she was beginning to spin the Charles-Camilla story after the marriage was broken and she had to blame someone for it - so it became Camilla, because it was Camilla Charles turned to. She was relentless in her campaign against Camilla - like she would be later against the nanny, Tiggy Legge-Bourke (the abortion fabrication). She seemed to have no scruples about spinning falsehoods - so I am questioning her veracity regarding Camilla being a 'shadow across the marriage' from even during the engagement.


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She spoke as well about being put on medication but not taking it because of her pregnancy. I'm going to take a quick look at Bradford's book and see whether there's a reference in there.

Here it is: "She was sent down to London to see analysts and psychiatrists and given a Valium prescription in a vain attempt to calm her. Vain because there could be no effective cure for her unhappiness, which was caused by basic insecurity and the tortured fears or unrequited love. The shadow of Camilla had lain over the relationship from the start."
There it is again - the reference to Camilla being a 'shadow' in the marriage. Is this just Diana's spin repeated? Or is there reliable sources that verify this? I'm really asking - is there? Or is this bit solely the result of what Diana had said and has subsequently gotten repeated so much that it is taken as truth?
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  #153  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:22 AM
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I don't believe she ever cut herself - but I do believe that she convinced herself that she did.
I can believe that she lied about it because her story shifted - and one just has to watch her in the Panorama Interview to see that she is exceedingly uncomfortable talking about it - in a way that suggests dishonesty. She is squirming. I don't think its the discomfort of a 'bad memory'. She's tripping herself up, it seems to me.

To posit that Diana convinced herself she did the act - when in fact she hadn't - means psychosis. Do you believe her dysfunction went that far? I see her self-absorption as causing her to initiate disastrous actions based upon constructed fallacies - yet I have always felt that she was canny and knew what she was doing. So I would see her as more of a liar than someone deluded to the extent you're suggesting. Do you see other evidence for this break?
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  #154  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:36 AM
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I think in refrence to Camilla I think she herself may have always beleived that Camilla was present even if she wasn't. Which I think most likely had an effect in the eventual dissintigration of her marriage. I mean the only proof Diana gave of them communicating(unless I have missed something) is a phone call prior to the wedding and a gift Prince Charles gave to her prior to the wedding and the cufflinks she gave him back and I think she also said something like 2 photos of Camilla fell out of his wallet on their honeymoon but once the wedding was over Diana never gave any evidence to support her claims especially in the early years. We do have audio from the late 80's so we have proof then but nothing solid prior to that
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  #155  
Old 12-22-2010, 06:09 AM
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I can believe that she lied about it because her story shifted - and one just has to watch her in the Panorama Interview to see that she is exceedingly uncomfortable talking about it - in a way that suggests dishonesty. She is squirming. I don't think its the discomfort of a 'bad memory'. She's tripping herself up, it seems to me.

To posit that Diana convinced herself she did the act - when in fact she hadn't - means psychosis. Do you believe her dysfunction went that far? I see her self-absorption as causing her to initiate disastrous actions based upon constructed fallacies - yet I have always felt that she was canny and knew what she was doing. So I would see her as more of a liar than someone deluded to the extent you're suggesting. Do you see other evidence for this break?
Often a liar will tell the same lie in one form or other enough times that they will actually come to believe the lie. That is what I think happened.
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  #156  
Old 12-22-2010, 06:10 AM
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I think in refrence to Camilla I think she herself may have always beleived that Camilla was present even if she wasn't. Which I think most likely had an effect in the eventual dissintigration of her marriage. I mean the only proof Diana gave of them communicating(unless I have missed something) is a phone call prior to the wedding and a gift Prince Charles gave to her prior to the wedding and the cufflinks she gave him back and I think she also said something like 2 photos of Camilla fell out of his wallet on their honeymoon but once the wedding was over Diana never gave any evidence to support her claims especially in the early years. We do have audio from the late 80's so we have proof then but nothing solid prior to that

My mother summed this up beautifully I think some years ago - "Camilla was in Diana's head so much that she ended up in Charles bed."

In other words Diana believed it even when it wasn't true to the extent that it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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  #157  
Old 12-22-2010, 06:12 AM
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My mother summed this up beautifully I think some years ago - "Camilla was in Diana's head so much that she ended up in Charles bed."

In other words Diana believed it even when it wasn't true to the extent that it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Your mother summed it up perfectly.
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  #158  
Old 12-22-2010, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
My mother summed this up beautifully I think some years ago - "Camilla was in Diana's head so much that she ended up in Charles bed."

In other words Diana believed it even when it wasn't true to the extent that it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Your mother said it perfectly! Jealousy is a cruel affliction. The phantasms that dance in the jealous one's mind are tricksters that do just that - create what they fear. The surest path to creating disaffection with one's love is to be a jealous lover. The person who has to endure another's jealousy is in a hell I would wish on no one!
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  #159  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
She was frequently seen in brief bikinis throughout her marriage - even when pregnant with no signs of these cuts on the legs.

I don't believe she ever cut herself - but I do believe that she convinced herself that she did.
She was seen in bikinis in Paparazzi photos taken long range while she was on vacation. The cuts were done in the first few years and long range shots would not show them. Even the Paparazzi photo taken of Princess Diana when she was very pregnant with I believe Prince William shows her from the back embraced by Prince Charles.


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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I don't agree as Charles was from an aristocratic family and was advising her to seek help.

She refused for her own reasons but not because she looked down on medication due to her background.
Her background was aristocratic wasn't it? It was do to her pregnancy that she did not take medication. But in one of the books I read about Princess Diana said it was an aristocratic no-no to take medicine and Diana was following that.



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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
That marriage had no chance. She went into in not trusting her husband and he didn't realise how needy she was. They had virtually nothing in common on which to build a relationship. They should never have married at all.
Sorry if Diana, Princess of Wales had time before starting a family to get well through medication and if the medication would have worked. I truly believe she might be alive today and still married to Prince Charles. Medication would have made her fear of Camilla be lessen. The Princess would not have gotten into fights about the Prince going out because she would though the medication have a coping mechanism for her fear. There would be no Duchess because they would have gotten on. It would have been rough (Press)but the Princess she did become in her late 20's-30's Prince Charles would have admired and wanted for a Queen.




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She confirmed it herself before she died and even before the divorce.
That is interesting Iluvbertie. I hear on the news after Diana, Princess of Wales' death that Andrew Morton confirmed that the book was authorized by Diana. I would like information about Princess Diana confirmed it before she died. Before divorce she would have been afraid to lose out on a good settlement from the prince.

Yes, Diana, Princess of Wales' fear did become reality. She made it happen.
I just wish she would have been under medication. I really believe she would never have a reason for divorce.
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  #160  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea

She was seen in bikinis in Paparazzi photos taken long range while she was on vacation. The cuts were done in the first few years and long range shots would not show them. Even the Paparazzi photo taken of Princess Diana when she was very pregnant with I believe Prince William shows her from the back embraced by Prince Charles.

Her background was aristocratic wasn't it? It was do to her pregnancy that she did not take medication. But in one of the books I read about Princess Diana said it was an aristocratic no-no to take medicine and Diana was following that.

Sorry if Diana, Princess of Wales had time before starting a family to get well through medication and if the medication would have worked. I truly believe she might be alive today and still married to Prince Charles. Medication would have made her fear of Camilla be lessen. The Princess would not have gotten into fights about the Prince going out because she would though the medication have a coping mechanism for her fear. There would be no Duchess because they would have gotten on. It would have been rough (Press)but the Princess she did become in her late 20's-30's Prince Charles would have admired and wanted for a Queen.

That is interesting Iluvbertie. I hear on the news after Diana, Princess of Wales' death that Andrew Morton confirmed that the book was authorized by Diana. I would like information about Princess Diana confirmed it before she died. Before divorce she would have been afraid to lose out on a good settlement from the prince.

Yes, Diana, Princess of Wales' fear did become reality. She made it happen.
I just wish she would have been under medication. I really believe she would never have a reason for divorce.
Maybe but of course it's still possible even if she had medication that Charles still would have had affair and that can lead to divorce ( not totally blaming PC just saying they may have still divorced even if Diana took meds)

Also after she had the boys did she take medication then?
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