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  #121  
Old 08-01-2010, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sirhon11234 View Post
Both Charles and Diana were stupid to do these interviews. What did it get them absolutely nothing! Whenever I watch her interview I cringe, it was so sad. Here was a woman who was angry, bitter, vindictive, sad and hurt. This was not a proud moment for the princess. The interview has not changed my opinion of the Princess of Wales but it was the biggest PR mistake she made. This topic is so old I've said all I can about it.
sirhorn it is true what you said above about Prince Charles and Princess Diana making bad choices with their books and interviews. I still think it was a bad match of personalities and that their whole married life was in public. I agree with most everyone that it was both parties' fault. I really wanted a fairy tale royal romance. I hope there are some happening right now in Denmark, Holland, Sweden and Monaco.

I think if Diana, Princess of Wales was older and more worldly and not a emotional and psychologically sick with an eating disorder and maybe more mentally problems; she might have won Prince Charles from Camilla. If she would have been under medication sooner then ten years into the (by then) broken down marriage maybe it would have continued.

I don't know who cheated first and it does not matter because it was a troubled marriage. Princess Diana was suspicious of Prince Charles an thought that he loved another woman and had a close friendship with this woman. It might have been in Diana's head and even a fact, but I feel fate was intervening and Princess Diana got pregnant and could not have medication to help her deal with the marriage and being the Princess of Wales and a new mother. Medication does help people over hard patches in life. I know from personal experience.

I think the Panorama Interview showed a woman that was sick and in a fishbowl. Princess Diana was just sick of it all and if she did not get out of her marriage she would die mentally. She acted like her brother the Earl is acting now. Both are selfish to their families. I believe Prince William has been hurt by the break up of his parent's marriage and can not commit to Ms. Middleton.

I hope we just close the page of this sad marriage and interview. I know Prince William and Prince Harry would hope we think well of their beloved mother.
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  #122  
Old 08-01-2010, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
Princess Diana was just sick of it all and if she did not get out of her marriage she would die mentally.
You see, that's just it. I'm not so sure she really knew what she was doing. The whole mess became a competition for her. She was so full of self-importance, and quite frankly drunk on all the public adulation that she forgot who really had the real power. She's such a sad character.
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  #123  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:34 PM
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sirhorn it is true what you said above about Prince Charles and Princess Diana making bad choices with their books and interviews. I still think it was a bad match of personalities and that their whole married life was in public. I agree with most everyone that it was both parties' fault. I really wanted a fairy tale royal romance. I hope there are some happening right now in Denmark, Holland, Sweden and Monaco.
Oh I know! Perhaps that's where we go wrong too. We see royalty as fairy tale princes and princess and the happily ever after as a means to escape our everyday humdrum life.
Trust me.. I was glued to my monitor watching every minute of CP Victoria and Daniel's wedding. What I really realized watching that wedding and hearing Daniel speak about the time when Victoria was to go off to to China (I think it was) and she'd not be home for a month, he remembered watching her at her desk writing the night before. After she'd left for her trip, he found a box with 30 letters in it.. one to be opened each day she was gone. That right there told me these are two real people that are not only in love.. but also loving. It made me realize that as much enjoyment I got out of watching these two getting married and the pomp and circumstance and the bad outfits some of them wore even... it was about them. We can revel in the "fairy tale weddings" and sip a nip of champagne when they say "I do" but we also have to realize these are two human beings.. just like us.. and not storybook princes and princesses.

And if I can say it in a very tactful way that you wouldn't be offended, Diana was never ever Princess Diana. She was HRH The Princess of Wales while married to Charles.. she took on her husbands titles and styles. Yes, she could also be called HRH The Princess Charles while married. Trust me on this one... I've had good teachers here :0) Diana, Princess of Wales is the courtesy style denoting a divorced wife of The Prince of Wales. (did I pass muster here? correct me where I done wrong eh?) In her own right, she was Lady Diana Spencer from her father though.

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I think if Diana, Princess of Wales was older and more worldly and not a emotional and psychologically sick with an eating disorder and maybe more mentally problems; she might have won Prince Charles from Camilla. If she would have been under medication sooner then ten years into the (by then) broken down marriage maybe it would have continued.
To be honest, I think if Diana was older and had more time to get to know Charles as a person, she either wouldn't have married him or formed a close bond with him that included his circle of friends. Either way.. winning back Charles from Camilla maybe wouldn't have been a issue. We can play the if game till the cows come home.

Diana was constantly seeking therapies during her marriage. One thing she did have in common with Charles is seeking answers. He talked to plants and read, she consulted the tarot, the stars and homeopathic remedies. Once again.. if they had only sat down and talked about these things... :) A lot of Diana's interest was in healing and being healed. Charles is to me a modern day druid.. go figure!

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I don't know who cheated first and it does not matter because it was a troubled marriage. Princess Diana was suspicious of Prince Charles an thought that he loved another woman and had a close friendship with this woman. It might have been in Diana's head and even a fact, but I feel fate was intervening and Princess Diana got pregnant and could not have medication to help her deal with the marriage and being the Princess of Wales and a new mother. Medication does help people over hard patches in life. I know from personal experience.
What they actually thought is something we'll never know. We're the outsiders looking at their lives through a cloudy window. I can agree with you on the medication part up to a point. To me, drugs are not a solution but only a temporary reprieve.... and yes I know from experience also. What medication Diana may or may not have used is between her and her physcian and as I'm NOT a doctor, I wouldn't begin to even think what meds were best for her. For me? I subscribe to the natural homeopathic. I can brew a mean relaxant... and trust me it smells. The tea relaxes me and also the stink drives the hubby out of the room so I get the remote. OH! I forgot to mention that actually I brew 2 cups of tea.. one for the smell and one for drinking? The smell tea would be used several times in small dosages in my chamomile tea (another natural relaxant tea)

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I think the Panorama Interview showed a woman that was sick and in a fishbowl. Princess Diana was just sick of it all and if she did not get out of her marriage she would die mentally. She acted like her brother the Earl is acting now. Both are selfish to their families. I believe Prince William has been hurt by the break up of his parent's marriage and can not commit to Ms. Middleton.
I think this comparison is perhaps the best thought on the Spencer family I've read on these forums.. Charles, the Earl that is. is on his third upcoming marriage. I'd not go as far as to say he's selfish as I really haven't a clue really why his previous two marriages fell apart. Both Diana and Charles were totally different... Diana wanted the security and love of a real family and perhaps Charles was afraid of having the same? This I can only guess at as an armchair granny.. I don't know them.

As to William and Harry? I think they carry the best of both parents with them wherever they go. They both are very well adjusted young men/ MY opinion of Kate and Wills? Here I think he's taking lessons from his granny.. and so is she. lay low..private is as private does.. or is that Forrest Gump?. I do think that the photogs had a huge impact on William with seeing what his mother went through with them.. even though at times she encouraged it. I do think that in time.. when THEY decide.. they will marry and I think also that as Katie Nicholl put it nicely.. "if the press got wind of an engagement date ... it'd be just like William to change it... to prove them wrong." Everyone in an extended family are hurt by a divorce of a couple and we've seen it. Over the years though, comes acceptance. I think both William and Harry are genuinely fond of Camilla if only at first it was because their father was happy. I do think though, getting to know her.. they'd like her.

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I hope we just close the page of this sad marriage and interview. I know Prince William and Prince Harry would hope we think well of their beloved mother.
I read somewhere here on the forums that the Concert for Diana, organized by both William and Harry was a celebration of her life and also a closure for them both.. it was time. We'll never forget her.. she's got two bright lights shining in this world that are beacons to all.
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  #124  
Old 08-02-2010, 07:13 AM
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Oh I know! Perhaps that's where we go wrong too. We see royalty as fairy tale princes and princess and the happily ever after as a means to escape our everyday humdrum life.
Yes, that is probably true about escapism on our part. I try to post only on royals that I have read about or know (what I think) is fact on a royal.


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And if I can say it in a very tactful way that you wouldn't be offended, Diana was never ever Princess Diana. She was HRH The Princess of Wales while married to Charles.. she took on her husbands titles and styles. Yes, she could also be called HRH The Princess Charles while married. Trust me on this one... I've had good teachers here :0) Diana, Princess of Wales is the courtesy style denoting a divorced wife of The Prince of Wales. (did I pass muster here? correct me where I done wrong eh?) In her own right, she was Lady Diana Spencer from her father though.
Yes Osipi, I do know the press called Diana, Princess of Wales incorrectly Princess Diana or Princess Di and it is not the princess correct name.



Quote:
To be honest, I think if Diana was older and had more time to get to know Charles as a person, she either wouldn't have married him or formed a close bond with him that included his circle of friends. Either way.. winning back Charles from Camilla maybe wouldn't have been a issue. We can play the if game till the cows come home.
I disagree that they would not have married, it was fated. If Diana, Princess of Wales was more emotional and intellectual mature, became Prince Charles' friend and shared his interests and friends and the most important factor not gotten an eating disorder and depression I think she would have know how to cope with Ms Parker-Bowles at the time.


Quote:
Both Diana and Charles were totally different... Diana wanted the security and love of a real family and perhaps Charles was afraid of having the same?
If you are talking about both Spencers I think Diana, Princess of Wales and her brother, Earl Spencer are not good examples of being able to stay in a committed relationship. I think their characters (same unstable family background with noted tempers, eating disorders, depression, and suicide being privileged and somewhat spoiled) says a lot about their actions in relationships and marriage.

Quote:
As to William and Harry? I think they carry the best of both parents with them wherever they go. They both are very well adjusted young men.
I think this is correct except for the marriage factor. Prince William hated the press before his mother's death, but now he keeps them guessing. The Prince will be very protective of Ms. Middleton when they become engaged I feel because of his mother. I do think he is afraid of marriage and we might have to wait a while for him to settle down.


Quote:
I read somewhere here on the forums that the Concert for Diana, organized by both William and Harry was a celebration of her life and also a closure for them both.. it was time. We'll never forget her.. she's got two bright lights shining in this world that are beacons to all.
I think at the Concert Prince Harry stated he wanted closure from all the controversy after Diana, Princess of Wales' death. Yes, Princess Diana did leave two remarkable royal sons to carry on for her with her special magic.
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  #125  
Old 08-16-2010, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
...What I think was really Diana's main concern and resulted in her paranoia about Camilla was the intimacy which Charles and Camilla had. The intimacy of friendship and companionship that C&C shared over love of common interest, the same circle of friends and a bonding of understanding each other. This is what I think Diana wished she could have formed with Charles.. the intimacy. And in a fairytale storybook way, perhaps she imagined that once married, he would direct all that onto her.
I believe this is perfectly spoken truth.........
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  #126  
Old 08-16-2010, 06:40 PM
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To me the Panorama interview was just a tacky deed and very nonprofessional and immature. I can remember it very well how I felt when I watched it. I was thinking: why does that woman feel the need to tell the whole wide world about her private life? Those girls took themselves too seriously. I also remember how Sarah Ferguson wrote that book and wept in publicity. I wasn't a fan of Camilla back then, but I thought that at least she kept her mouth shut.
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  #127  
Old 08-16-2010, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Diana was constantly seeking therapies during her marriage. One thing she did have in common with Charles is seeking answers. He talked to plants and read, she consulted the tarot, the stars and homeopathic remedies. Once again.. if they had only sat down and talked about these things... :) A lot of Diana's interest was in healing and being healed. Charles is to me a modern day druid.. go figure!
Yes I agree, Charles and Diana's relationship suffered because lack of communication and understanding. Sadly the marriage never had a solid foundation but in the 15 years there was some good times they shared together.
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  #128  
Old 12-20-2010, 06:47 AM
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This thread has been a fascinating read.....

.....and I want to thank all the posters. I have been educated! In particular, the first three pages of this thread are exceptional. Brilliant exegesis, because that is how i view this. We have been given a text - of pictures, and dialog (in the mode of interviews and books), and there is a story that we lived through and continue to live through. It behooves us to understand these stories that grip us like clinging fire.

It must be hard for those who have talked the story through for themselves with others to hear the same 'ol same 'ol rattle around - and here is a newbie enthralled with her own epiphany and wanting to chew it....ah well.....its a story that will enthrall endlessly, I think, and will see the light of day for a long time.

What is curious are the large time gaps in this thread - two of them for about a year each. I am going to assume that in those gaps some rather rollicking posting took place that was decided did not need to continue to see the light of day, not so? Ah, to be the fly on the wall for those posts!

So here is my view on the Panorama Interview -

Calculating, from start to finish. Bizarre answers to straight forward questions. Peculiar, convoluted, half-said phrases with elliptical innuendos. Embarrassingly self-serving - a full bore display of complete self absorption, intent on hurting and denigrating. Excruciatingly uncomfortable to watch - given one sees her lying and dodging questions and oh-so-artfully phrasing answers to serve her purpose. Unutterably sad. Embarrassing to watch. Tragic.

Diana suffered from never having had a decent education - or normal boy-girl relationships in adolescence, I think. She was clever, spoilt, willful, canny - but she was disastrously undeveloped in fundamental ways. There was something considerable about her that was 'off' - she lived in a totally self-referencing reality. That is excruciatingly apparent in this interview. She was oblivious. Nothing kind or self-reflective was demonstrated - chilling.

One just has to watch her in the Panorama Interview and one asks oneself - why is this being allowed to happen? This is a woman who has lost all sense of where her very self exists - she thinks her life exists in the 'crowd', in convincing 'me' - the public - of her view of her life. Foolish woman. Sad, tragic woman - not for any of the reasons she thinks - she is a tragedy to watch.

I think she thought she was way-laying her march to a divorce. Revelations were coming out fast and furious and I think she sensed the tide potentially shifting. A poster correctly indicates, I think, that she knew the full extent of the revelations of her string of lovers would be disastrous and she was swinging the attention onto Charles - successfully making his one dalliance the focal point. I think she was petitioning the Queen - in that strange moment, when her language becomes so odd as though she is arguing the perspective to 'someone' - that she could be an ambassador to the world with all the cameras that follow her wherever she goes. Its so pathetic, so lonely, so sad. I think she truly felt that if she put the stark possibility of a divorce to 'the public' there would be an 'uprising' of public opinion against it - and she would be in command. As someone said, she was 'going over the head of the Queen' to the Queen's subjects and laying her case. Ouch!

Diana is a cautionary tale. What happened to her sense of 'self', where she placed her identity, is a malady she shares with other people who are ill-prepared for celebrity, and have not the maturity, ego presence or inner resources to stay grounded and centered in reality. A thorough discussion of the catastrophe that befell Diana is needed in our media-driven culture, but not for the reasons usually spoken. Diana made her own choices and created her own tragedy - she was not the victim she tried to so consistently paint - but because part of what happened is associated with the choices 'we' made as a viewing public. I don't know if that part can be changed - but I do know that when we start to detect that someone in front of the lens is not 'right' - do we keep filming?
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  #129  
Old 12-20-2010, 11:50 AM
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As someone in her circle remarked, "Nice suicide, without a note".
That was the end.
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  #130  
Old 12-20-2010, 06:52 PM
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I have questions about Bashir.....

.......what is the general opinion of how he conducted the interview?

I am aware that Diana constrained him in regards the subject content of the questions he would put to her beforehand - but I found myself (I just re-watched the interview yesterday) impressed with Bashir's questioning even with the constraints. In fact, I thought I saw Diana get uncomfortable several times - she actually squirmed in the chair at one point. I felt that he - while still adhering to her requests - still asked hard, pointed, significant questions - which every time, none-the-less, Diana evaded with sort of 'puffery' and almost slogan-like rhetoric. It's really an odd interview when you look at it closely.

Any opinions?
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  #131  
Old 12-20-2010, 08:04 PM
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At times she seemed to be very uncomfortable. I've only watched the interview once but remember her shifting in the chair (she was either uncomfortable or some memory she was remembering was uncomfortable or painful).
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  #132  
Old 12-20-2010, 10:05 PM
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This is the first time I've ever seen this interview and what I don't get is, she keeps contridicting herself- she was daunted by entering the family, but no she wasn't and she says she and Charles had many if the same interests but no she wasn't allowed to have any- and no one knew she was bulimic but they'd call her out on wasting food- Honestly, I like Diana and all that but the only time I felt she was not 'acting' was when she talked about her bulimia- the rest of it she seemed to be victim .
And she admitted to cutting but did she admit to trying to take her own life? And post natal depression is more then your body needing a rest after a tough year. it's pretty obvious she read everything written about her and really played up the public perception of her. Just my opinion- sorry for the rant
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  #133  
Old 12-20-2010, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
At times she seemed to be very uncomfortable. I've only watched the interview once but remember her shifting in the chair (she was either uncomfortable or some memory she was remembering was uncomfortable or painful).
I will re-watch it at some point because I am seeing things anew around her and watching these moments with different eyes is very revealing.

The 'squirming' happens at significant moments - when Bashir has asked a question that requires a significant answer - usually truthful self reflection. She admits to one fact - then when asked to explain her choice of an action that she admits to, she slides away from explaining herself. 'Well you see there was no attempt to understand' - she flips it back to a problem of others not herself. She refuses to go near any true self revelation while yet ostensibly 'revealing all' - usually incriminating others. In fact she is revealing nothing but creating an impression - her words are very vague and drive down the same 'road' with every question - she is relentless with her points.

Questioned about the 'suicide attempts' - asked how she hurt herself - she talks about 'arms and legs'. Puzzling 'suicide attempt' - damaging arms and legs does not kill one.

Each time she does not address the question Bashir asks, she repeats some phrases - like catch phrases - that have nothing to do with the question, like 'I was asking for help', 'No one saw the reason behind why I was doing what I was doing'. Bashir asks then why was she doing it and the syllogism is repeated.

When I re-watch I will take note of exactly when and what.
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  #134  
Old 12-20-2010, 11:09 PM
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This is the first time I've ever seen this interview and what I don't get is, she keeps contradicting herself - she was daunted by entering the family, but no she wasn't and she says she and Charles had many of the same interests but no she wasn't allowed to have any - and no one knew she was bulimic but they'd call her out on wasting food - Honestly, I like Diana and all that but the only time I felt she was not 'acting' was when she talked about her bulimia - the rest of it she seemed to be victim.
And she admitted to cutting but did she admit to trying to take her own life? And post natal depression is more then your body needing a rest after a tough year. it's pretty obvious she read everything written about her and really played up the public perception of her. Just my opinion - sorry for the rant.
It is definitely a troubling 'performance'. If there is any time when one gets the impression that something is not right with her - its in this interview. She does not look well, does not sound well - and the hate she is spewing is disturbing. Its hard to watch.
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  #135  
Old 12-20-2010, 11:23 PM
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With all the pictures we've seen of Diana in bikinis, low cut dresses, short skirts, etc., no-one has ever mentioned seeing evidence of her alleged "cutting." Diana said that her sister Jane mentioned the marks to her, but that's all the information we have about anyone witnessing anything--and that information from a woman who was known to shade the truth at times.


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So: we learn that Charles did not in fact saw her hurting herself. Probably he didn't see it once or why say it in such a strange way: Well, I didn't actually always do it in front of him.... I personally think she never really tried anything like that but she pretended because she thought that that should get her the reaction she wanted from him and he in her opinion was not willing to take the time to find out why she did "it" -
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  #136  
Old 12-21-2010, 12:05 AM
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With all the pictures we've seen of Diana in bikinis, low cut dresses, short skirts, etc., no-one has ever mentioned seeing evidence of her alleged "cutting." Diana said that her sister Jane mentioned the marks to her, but that's all the information we have about anyone witnessing anything--and that information from a woman who was known to shade the truth at times.
Yes exactly!
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  #137  
Old 12-21-2010, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyger

Questioned about the 'suicide attempts' - asked how she hurt herself - she talks about 'arms and legs'. Puzzling 'suicide attempt' - damaging arms and legs does not kill one.
Yes she admitted to cutting which is not the same as a suicide attempt-
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  #138  
Old 12-21-2010, 12:53 AM
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We saw the interview over two nights on CBC. The first part of the interview seemed to be more or less what we expected. However, I was troubled especially by the second half of the interview. I saw paranoia and megalomania there. I can well believe the report that Diana wanted to be in on discussions involving the IRA and the government about Northern Ireland. Allegedly she said, "I think that I could sort them out." Knowing that she actually thought that she could--on her own--bring peace to an area known for vicious historical hatred isn't really shocking when a person considers her attitude during the second part of that interview. She seemed to think that she could do things so much better than people who were more qualified and experienced. There was something frightening there in her attitude.


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It is definitely a troubling 'performance'. If there is any time when one gets the impression that something is not right with her - its in this interview. .
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  #139  
Old 12-21-2010, 04:40 AM
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This is where I was going with this, too - if she was slashing her arms and legs why was it never seen or remarked upon - as it most definitely would have been. It was at this answer that she did one of her 'squirms' in her chair. She was definitely uncomfortable and said her answer very fast, going quickly to a deflection, a repeated phrase. So sad. It really is so sad - its painful when one starts to realize what a distressed soul she was.

All her statements that the Royal Family were thinking she was not well - oh, dear, did she think she was convincing the public with this interview that she wasn't? Heartbreaking.

Question(s): did Diana actually see a therapist? Wasn't it to a therapist that she supposedly mentioned the suicide attempts? She spoke of them in the Morton book, correct? But at the time of the Panorama Interview, was her involvement in the Morton book known to the public? Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks for the additional info, Mermaid1962.
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  #140  
Old 12-21-2010, 03:56 PM
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Tyger:
Quote:
What happened to her sense of 'self',
I believe at that time she lost her sense of self. Diana was enraged when Charles publically admitted to adultery and said he wasn't going to give Camilla up. And one can see the anger(no matter how hard she tried to hide it) and sadness in the interview. In her eyes she had to hurt him back as he had hurt her, but in the process she didn't only hurt him, but her kids, her reputation, and ultimately herself. The interview was conducted during Diana's most lowest point in her life. She just didn't seem all together mentally. Then with the divorce things changed, her relationship with Charles was much better and she seemed much happier. I believe in 1997 she was finding her sense of self again and was finally finding a purpose for herself. What surprisd me about her during the final summer was that she finally accepted the love between Charles and Camilla that doesen't mean she liked it and she realized that despite that Dodi had all the toys and luxuries to sustain her lifestyle, Diana knew being in a relationship with him would not be good for her. That takes maturity. IMO she was finally growing up and finding peace with herself. I've never viewed Diana as a tragic person, certainly her death was, but she lived her life. Diana had a glamourous life and she was privliged to meet and be adored and respected by many people. And she had two amazing sons. Her life was not tragic imo. She had her happy days and her sad one's.
But that interview will always be sad to watch.
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