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  #241  
Old 06-30-2016, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes, the seeing Morton for the book and the setting up of the Panorama interview were two main quite irrational episodes in Diana's life. I've always wondered if she liked the flirting with danger aspect of it, or whether, with the Morton business, the Royals would just accept her denials that she had anything to do with the book and she would be left sitting pretty.

It's clear she had a real blind spot with regard to Panorama. At the time she was in negotiations with the BBC she told Lord Wakeham, the new Chairman of the Press Complaints Commission, at a dinner party that she favoured a privacy law to protect people from media intrusions. (Even though she was persecuted by paps it's an extraordinary piece of hypocrisy.)

I certainly don't think she realised the consequences of her Panorama interview. At that time though, I think Diana was just burning up with misery and resentment and dislike of BP and all it stood for and that overrode everything. It was only later she awoke to the cold light of reality, that she really had burned her bridges.
I think it is clear that Diana had been burning up with misery and resentment and dislike of BP since at least New Year's Eve 1989 when the Squidgy tape was recorded. In her conversation with James Gilbey she stated her opinion of the BRF in very clear and unambiguous - and colourful - words.
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  #242  
Old 06-30-2016, 02:38 PM
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To me the Morton book was done by a desperate woman...I think she still had some intention of making a go of things if she could shake things up enough to force change.

The interview was done by a woman wanting to get her pound of flesh...and some sympathy.




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  #243  
Old 06-30-2016, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
To me the Morton book was done by a desperate woman...I think she still had some intention of making a go of things if she could shake things up enough to force change.

The interview was done by a woman wanting to get her pound of flesh...and some sympathy.

LaRae
Also, the interview was done out of hurt, anger and sadness. No matter who the couple is, going through a bad separation and divorce isn't easy and the people involved can end up doing something crazy.
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  #244  
Old 06-30-2016, 03:52 PM
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Also, the interview was done out of hurt, anger and sadness. No matter who the couple is, going through a bad separation and divorce isn't easy and the people involved can end up doing something crazy.
Yes I think that was part of the mix as well. Also, the situation must of been rather humiliating for her. I realize she has fault in the marriage...however I have always held Charles more culpable in some areas due to their ages and status when their relationship began and into the early years of their marriage.


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  #245  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Yes I think that was part of the mix as well. Also, the situation must of been rather humiliating for her. I realize she has fault in the marriage...however I have always held Charles more culpable in some areas due to their ages and status when their relationship began and into the early years of their marriage.


LaRae
I'm just glad a lot of all that drama went away before her passing.
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  #246  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I think it is clear that Diana had been burning up with misery and resentment and dislike of BP since at least New Year's Eve 1989 when the Squidgy tape was recorded. In her conversation with James Gilbey she stated her opinion of the BRF in very clear and unambiguous - and colourful - words.
Yes her words were worthy of an award.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
To me the Morton book was done by a desperate woman...I think she still had some intention of making a go of things if she could shake things up enough to force change.

The interview was done by a woman wanting to get her pound of flesh...and some sympathy.
The Morton book was done because she wanted a divorce and wanted to trash Charles.

She went searching for a writer and approached Colin Campbell but Colin Campbell refused to do her bidding. She saw that Diana's public image was not the same as her private image and wrote her book. Diana found Morton.

Lucia Flecha de Lima also confirmed that Diana wanted a divorce. She and Rosa Monckton wrote or helped Diana write her letters to Prince Philip. Prince Philip was trying to appease Diana by offering her another apartment in KP. (Lucia has copies of these letters.)
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  #247  
Old 06-30-2016, 05:11 PM
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I'm just glad a lot of all that drama went away before her passing.
Me too...I think she and Charles had 'reconciled' prior to her death..I remember seeing one event they were at with the boys and they seemed very relaxed and friendly to one another.

LaRae
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  #248  
Old 07-01-2016, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
To me the Morton book was done by a desperate woman...I think she still had some intention of making a go of things if she could shake things up enough to force change.

The interview was done by a woman wanting to get her pound of flesh...and some sympathy.

LaRae
There was no desperation about the Morton book. We tend to forget that Diana had no intention of ever being known as having contributed in any way to "Diana: Her True Story. She could say what she liked abd did with little regard to the truth. However there was too much "nobody but Charles or Diana could have known' for many people to strongly suspect collusion. Safe in her anonymity she exagerated greatly (throwing herself down the stairs while own pregnant was the act of someone not in their right mind) and she played down that and other such shocking "revelations" that made people wonder. But people wanted to believe her.

She didn't ever come clean about it, even in the Panorama interview (the best peice of amateur theatrics in years). It only came out after her death when Morton revised his book and using her tapes and galley proofs that had her handwritten edits on them. Proof positive that in fact Morton was little more than her ghost writer.
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  #249  
Old 07-14-2016, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes
It's clear she had a real blind spot with regard to Panorama. At the time she was in negotiations with the BBC she told Lord Wakeham, the new Chairman of the Press Complaints Commission, at a dinner party that she favoured a privacy law to protect people from media intrusions. (Even though she was persecuted by paps it's an extraordinary piece of hypocrisy.)

I certainly don't think she realised the consequences of her Panorama interview. At that time though, I think Diana was just burning up with misery and resentment and dislike of BP and all it stood for and that overrode everything. It was only later she awoke to the cold light of reality, that she really had burned her bridges.
I think she wasn't thinking clearly. She half wanted out of the RF and to get a divorce, find a new man and remarry.. maybe have another baby. But she knew the RF woudln't be happy with that. and I think she did want to hit out at Charles, make ti clear that her marriage was miserable and that a lot of it was due to there being "3 people in it". but she didn't really want a divorce, per se. I think what maybe in her heart of hearts she longed for, was to get back with Charles, to win his attention if not his love and maybe try again.. but she really didn't know what she wanted. and she probably did reason that if Charles was forced out of the line of succession because of a divorce, she was still the mother of the heir to the throne, and she liked the idea of that...
But even tho' she probably knew that a divorce was inevitable eventually, it wasn't what she really at her deepest level wanted... and she didn't want to be the one who called time on the marriage. So when the queen ordered to her to get a divorce in one way that freed her from being the one who finally ended the marriage. And I think also by the time of Panorama, and the "being ordered to divorce" she realised that being outside the RF was not going to be as easy or fun as she had half hoped. She was going to be treated politely by the RF in public but cold shouldered in private. Her own class of people would problably side with Charles and the RF.. She was maybe going to have to go outside her own kind to find a new man, to go for the company of people like actors and celebs and so on, for a social life...
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  #250  
Old 07-20-2016, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Me too...I think she and Charles had 'reconciled' prior to her death..I remember seeing one event they were at with the boys and they seemed very relaxed and friendly to one another.

LaRae
I don't think they were all that much reconciled. I think that Diana knew it would look bad if she was seen to be continually snarky with him, and to please the boys they both tired to seem friendly in public.. but I think ti would have taken longer to get over their differences...and I think tat the more Charles was seen out with Camilla, the harder it ws for Diana to look like she was Ok with him..
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  #251  
Old 07-23-2016, 09:20 AM
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Thanks for the clarification Mo

But although Tina Brown is generally a reliable source of information, I am skeptical of her assertion that Camilla was the one who talked Charles out of a reconciliation. First, I doubt if either would have confided to a third party.

Moreover, I doubt Charles was seriously considering a reconciliation at that point. I c
.
I certainly find it hard to believe that Charles considered reconciliation. I think that in doing Bashir, Diana really wasn't sure WHAT she wanted. she said she did not want a divorce, but she was upset when, after the interview, the queen more or less ordered a divorce.
I think that Panorama really was the last straw for Charles as well as for the queen.. he probalby felt guilty about the break up of his marriage but still must have felt that he just didn't know what to expect from Diana and, there was no way he could stay married to her, even technically because he could not trust her..So why would he think of giving the marriage another try?
As for her it really is hard to know what she was hoping to achieve. Perhaps although she said she didnt want a divorce, and was afraid of leaving the RF, in some ways...she was subconsciously trying to push them towards telling her that there must be a divorce and that saved her face. She could say that she didn't want a divorce, but that the queen insisted on it.
Yet I think that when she gott the letter insisting on divorce, she got very panicky and realised that she was now at the end of the game, that she was now going to HAVE to leave the marriage and the position that had been hers almost all her adult life.
She began to dimly realise perhaps that the "invisible cloak of royalty" which had protected her, was now gone, and she was going to be more isolated, treated with less respect and dignity from now on, and going to have to make her own life..
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  #252  
Old 07-23-2016, 10:23 AM
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Charles went public with an interview first...what did he expect Diana would do?


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  #253  
Old 07-23-2016, 03:53 PM
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And Diana went public with a book first. If one is going to play tit for tat, there comes a time when the game has to stop...Charles was having an interview anyway for his biography, he should not have admitted his affar with Cam, but given that Diana had started the fight with her book, it was possible that he'd hit back....
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  #254  
Old 07-23-2016, 04:09 PM
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Agreed. The War of Waleses was dividing the country. Even within the Commonwealth, people were taking sides in the debate. Feelings were so much more intense than they are now. The monarchy, which for so long had been a symbol of unity, was becoming the opposite. The whole nasty business had to end.

In all my reading, I'd not run across this tidbit. Why would she need another apartment? Her husband had already moved out.

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Prince Philip was trying to appease Diana by offering her another apartment in KP. (Lucia has copies of these letters.)
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  #255  
Old 07-23-2016, 06:57 PM
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In all my reading, I'd not run across this tidbit. Why would she need another apartment? Her husband had already moved out.
I dont know either, She didn't move out of that apartment as far as i know atfer her separation and divorce. And I'm surprised to think of Philip trying to "appease" her, I think he meant well to her, but he grew increasingly annoyed by her behaviour...

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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Agreed. The War of Waleses was dividing the country. Even within the Commonwealth, people were taking sides in the debate. .
Yes, it was very bad of Diana. I sympathised with her at the time, because I felt sorry for her and was more inclined to blame Charles for the failure of the marriage. But even at the time, even sympathising, I was beginning to see that things had gotten out of hand and she was the one who started it and seemed to be keeping it going. Chas should have refused ot get into the fight, stopped his friends from putting out stories in the press and refusing to discuss his marriage or speak about Cam in that interview, so he is to blame as well. but if they did botht feel the divorce was the only thing that they could do, that they just could not live as a couple any more, I think they would have been better to keep on nagging at the queen, maybe reveal a bit of the friciton in the press so that she might have feared more bad stories coming out, and kept up the pressure.
but the fact remains that Diana did start the fight and fought the hardest. I think that C reached a point of positiveily hating her for a while and I doubt very much if he would have considered reconciliation..
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  #256  
Old 07-25-2016, 07:49 PM
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Denville may I ask why you think Diana panicked when the letter saying they must divorce was sent? I haven't read Diana books in years and I don't know of any indication that she was in panic mode when she realized it was over.

On another note, do you guys think the Queen would have gone the divorce route if Diana had questioned Charles ability to be king?
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  #257  
Old 07-25-2016, 09:19 PM
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I just think the Panorama interview was the last straw for the Queen. It wasnt the specific remark made by Diana about Charles's abilities IMO (as far as I remember Diana hinted at all that obliquely; didn't come right out and state that he would be a bad King and William would be better) just the fact that it had all come out in this interview, Charles's adultery with Camilla, the infidelity on Diana's part with Hewitt, the outright misery and resentment felt by her daughter in law, etc, etc.

The Queen never interferes in her children and grandchildren's lives unless she is absolutely driven to it. We've seen this pattern all her adult life, really. She may have felt that Charles would have been compelled to do a tit for tat interview defending Camilla at some stage in the future (I don't mean a full revelation about their affair but a general rebuttal) and then Diana might have retaliated with more revelations. I just think the Queen felt enough was enough. It just couldn't continue. It was all so damaging to the fabric of the monarchy, of how people felt about the Royal family.

So no, I don't think the Queen would have gone the divorce route if Panorama hadn't happened. The separation would have gone on IMO if Diana hadnt died until she met someone else in the fullness of time and had asked for a divorce.
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  #258  
Old 07-25-2016, 09:46 PM
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I think Charles would have wanted a divorce within a couple of years anyway he wanted Camilla in his life and wouldn't be happy if she was just the "girl friend"


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  #259  
Old 07-26-2016, 02:24 AM
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I think genuinly wanted to make his marriage work in the beginning, but after a while found out there was so little they had in common and he would have to change himself so completely and give up everything *he* liked to suit Diana's needs that he couldn't do it...
And I think Diana didn't want to settle with anything *but* total commitment from him

and that just didn't fit, the interviews just quickened, or rather, HM quickened it for them to protect "the firm"
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  #260  
Old 07-26-2016, 12:36 PM
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Diana's best friend, Rosa Mockton, called the interview "Diana at her worst,"
And what did Diana expect the reaction would be from the Queen anyway? By that time, enough was enough.
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