The Diana Inquest: October 2007 - April 2008


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sirhon11234 said:
UK doctor says Diana might have survived if treated faster

UK doctor says Diana might have survived if treated faster
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Diana may have survived but for lost time, surgeon says - Yahoo! News UK

Oh dear ... "if, if, if," ... that's all we can hear during this inquest. For me, I think it's total BS. Honestly, is someone here able to prove that if the accident had occured in the UK she would be alive today ? And is there anyone who would have had better capacities to save her ? I don't think so. They did all they could like for any other patient. We can always guess what would have happened if ... but is it really worth the discussion ? It won't bring them back and as far as I know, it won't help anyone to finally rest in peace.
 
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while i don't know if she could have been saved, it's sad to think that it's possible. imagine....she could still be with us today. on the other hand, what would she be like? would she the same...would her injuries have been so severe that she might have brain damage? would she have the same quality of life as before the accident.
 
Duchess said:
while i don't know if she could have been saved, it's sad to think that it's possible. imagine....she could still be with us today. on the other hand, what would she be like? would she the same...would her injuries have been so severe that she might have brain damage? would she have the same quality of life as before the accident.
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Yes. She had been through 2 hours of cardiac arrest and according to this site, brain damage or death can occured only in 4 to 6 minutes. Even if they had saved her, she would probably be in coma and would never have regained her mental or motor capacities.

Brain death and permanent death start to occur in just 4 to 6 minutes after someone experiences cardiac arrest. Cardiac arrest can be reversed if it's treated within a few minutes with an electric shock to the heart to restore a normal heartbeat. This process is called defibrillation. A victim's chances of survival are reduced by 7 to 10 percent with every minute that passes without CPR and defibrillation. Few attempts at resuscitation succeed after 10 minutes.
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TheTruth said:
Oh dear ... "if, if, if," ... that's all we can hear during this inquest. For me, I think it's total BS. Honestly, is someone here able to prove that if the accident had occured in the UK she would be alive today ? And is there anyone who would have had better capacities to save her ? I don't think so. They did all they could like for any other patient. We can always guess what would have happened if ... but is it really worth the discussion ? It won't bring them back and as far as I know, it won't help anyone to finally rest in peace.
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Very well said. :flowers: If, the saddest word in the world.
 
misleading headline

TheTruth said:
Daily Express: The World's Greatest Newspaper :: News / Showbiz :: Decision to embalm Diana denied
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The headline made it sound like Diana wasn't embalmed but the story reads that they are denying who made the decision to embalm her. Except for religions that forbid embalming (Judaism and Muslim come to mind) wouldn't embalming be standard procedure, especially having to transport a body overseas? A really controversial decision in this case would have been cremation which would have destroyed any "evidence". Even if she hadn't been embalmed that wouldn't change if someone was trying to hide something. I doubt she would have been pregnant that quickly even if that had been a goal (which I doubt would have been). Even with the "War of the Waleses" I don't think she would have pulled off a stunt that drastic that would embarrass her sons.
 
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Can someone clear this up what do they want from the papz? For them to show up or for them to show up and be able to read the statements? I'm confused I'm reading different things from different sources. You know what speaking of if she had survived I remember back in August going onto some agency and they had a pic of what Diana would have looked like had she survived and man it's not the Diana we all knew so in a way I'm glad she didn't survive plus I think as bizzare as this sounds it would have hurt William and Harry more to see her in that state then just knowing the medics tried their best but they just couldn't save her. I hope no one takes that the wrong way beleive me I would have loved for her to live but like TheTruth said she probably wouldn't have been the same. I also can't beleive she pulled out her IV but I can sorta imagine she was probably freaking out she probably wasn't even thinking straight.
 
ghost_night554 said:
Can someone clear this up what do they want from the papz?
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Mohammed al Fayed claims that at least one paparazzo was in the employ of the British secret service and therefore engineered the accident to deliberately kill Diana. He wants his legal team to be able to question them in a court under oath, believing that his conspiracy theory will be proved. The statements aren't satisfactory as they are the paparazzi's accounts but his legal team can't get on the record that a secret service agent was among them. ( all al Fayed's delusions but he's got the money to bring his delusions into a court)
 
^ oh ok that makes sense so some judges have favoured in calling the papz but I'm assuming some haven't(or something like that)Did the coroner in charge of inquest favour in calling the papz or did he rule against it ? While his claims brought up in court makes sense what doesn't is the dog the witnesses claim to have seen in the Fiat Uno and I'm actually glad the police brought that up. If anything was planned I can't see how the Fiat Uno part was planned, none of his claims are adding up in that section as for the papz umm I dunno but I definitly don't think it was Andanson(sp?) if he was there he was prob on his motorcycle like he had reportedly told his friends. (I'm taking that part from Operation Pagat) Cause I just don't beleive if he was there at all that he had his car. Sorry I tend to trail off hah thanks for helping clear that up it makes more sense now.
 
For my own part, I'm pleased that alternative expert evidence has been given which posits that had Diana been taken to hospital with proper and all due dispatch, then she would have survived. I've heard this expressed in medical circles elsewhere, too, and I applaud the exposure that this belief is now receiving. Here, it can be most appropriately addressed and explained, and in full public view. To me, this has always seemed the best way, by far, to answer critics.

This has been one of the most contentious issues in the whole conspiracy debate, and those of us who wish to see an end to this distressing imbroglio must welcome the Inquest's wide-ranging exposure and consideration of all the accusations and counter-claims.

I remain confident that, once every demand and insidious suggestion has been officially disclosed and fully considered and discussed, Diana will be able to rest in peace. I look forward to that day.
 
Polly said:
For my own part, I'm pleased that alternative expert evidence has been given which posits that had Diana been taken to hospital with proper and all due dispatch, then she would have survived. I've heard this expressed in medical circles elsewhere, too, and I applaud the exposure that this belief is now receiving. Here, it can be most appropriately addressed and explained, and in full public view. To me, this has always seemed the best way, by far, to answer critics.
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It was addressed at the inquest but the papers chose not to highlight the testimony that in the medical literature available no-one with the same sort of injuries that Diana suffered ( blood vessel torn from her heart which caused her to bleed internally) has ever survived the trip to hospital. The fact that Diana survived as long as she did was a credit to the doctor and ambulance medics who treated her after the accident.

British newspaper reporting on the inquest tends to be rather xenophobic, those French 'can't do anything as well as we can' It makes for more sensational headlines if they say "Diana could have survived" rather than " She had no chance and the French did a fantastic job trying to save her"
 
ghost_night554 said:
^ oh ok that makes sense so some judges have favoured in calling the papz but I'm assuming some haven't(or something like that)Did the coroner in charge of inquest favour in calling the papz or did he rule against it ? While his claims brought up in court makes sense what doesn't is the dog the witnesses claim to have seen in the Fiat Uno and I'm actually glad the police brought that up. If anything was planned I can't see how the Fiat Uno part was planned, none of his claims are adding up in that section as for the papz umm I dunno but I definitly don't think it was Andanson(sp?) if he was there he was prob on his motorcycle like he had reportedly told his friends. (I'm taking that part from Operation Pagat) Cause I just don't beleive if he was there at all that he had his car. Sorry I tend to trail off hah thanks for helping clear that up it makes more sense now.
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A British coroner has no power to compell witnesses to testify from abroad if they refuse to. Ten years ago the original British coroner knew this and refused to grant an inquest into Diana's death because he knew it would be a waste of time and tax payers' money. He fought off attempts by al Fayed to bring about an inquest for 5 years, after his death the new British coroner agreed to run an inquest. But the fact still remains that any French citizen who doesn't want to testify doesn't have to. The current coroner asked the French government to compell the paparazzi to testify and also the French-Vietnamese man who it's believed to have been the driver of the white Fiat Uno that caused the accident to testify. But the French government have maintained that it's the individual's choice and they won't compell them.
 
TheTruth said:
Magistrate denies role in Diana embalming decision - Yahoo! News UK
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First of all why did she need to be on view for the French officials but was denied to be given the honor in England for the hordes of people who might have wanted to pass by her closed coffin for a few seconds?

Had Diana's sisters and Prince Charles not been able to be immediately dispatched to collect her remains, then maybe embalming would have been "ok" but then she could have been allowed to rest in the morgue's refridgerator like Dodi!

But you would think someone would have had the foresight of preserving some bodily fluids for future reference to answer the questions that might eventually pop up...mainly the pregnancy issue.

I dare say the inquest tends to create more questions rather than to answer them....
 
Charlotte1 said:
It was addressed at the inquest but the papers chose not to highlight the testimony that in the medical literature available no-one with the same sort of injuries that Diana suffered ( blood vessel torn from her heart which caused her to bleed internally) has ever survived the trip to hospital. The fact that Diana survived as long as she did was a credit to the doctor and ambulance medics who treated her after the accident.

British newspaper reporting on the inquest tends to be rather xenophobic, those French 'can't do anything as well as we can' It makes for more sensational headlines if they say "Diana could have survived" rather than " She had no chance and the French did a fantastic job trying to save her"
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I too believe credit should go to the French for all they did to help Diana. They were not negligent in any way and in 1997, I am hard put to believe she would have received any better treatment in the UK.

An inquest is supposed to be about the facts, not the 'what if's'. It is immaterial to consider that there might have been, although I doubt it, a slim possibilty of survival if she had been anywhere else, she wasn't, so what is the point.:ermm:
 
pinkie40 said:
First of all why did she need to be on view for the French officials
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Because that is the law.
Had Diana's sisters and Prince Charles not been able to be immediately dispatched to collect her remains, then maybe embalming would have been "ok" but then she could have been allowed to rest in the morgue's refridgerator like Dodi!
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I thought Dodi's corpse was also collected that night, on a separate flight, for a muslim burial

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Why would anyone even think that she might be pregnant, she had only been dating this man for a very short time. Under the circumstances of her death, I would have thought the last thing on anyones mind was to cover up an unknown pregnancy.
 
pinkie40 said:
First of all why did she need to be on view for the French officials but was denied to be given the honor in England for the hordes of people who might have wanted to pass by her closed coffin for a few seconds?

Had Diana's sisters and Prince Charles not been able to be immediately dispatched to collect her remains, then maybe embalming would have been "ok" but then she could have been allowed to rest in the morgue's refridgerator like Dodi!

But you would think someone would have had the foresight of preserving some bodily fluids for future reference to answer the questions that might eventually pop up...mainly the pregnancy issue.

I dare say the inquest tends to create more questions rather than to answer them....
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If the French magistrate in charge didn't authorize the embalming, who did and why?

Mortician wishes he had waited to embalm Diana's body

Mortician wishes he had waited to embalm Diana's body
 
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A British coroner has no power to compell witnesses to testify from abroad if they refuse to. Ten years ago the original British coroner knew this and refused to grant an inquest into Diana's death because he knew it would be a waste of time and tax payers' money. He fought off attempts by al Fayed to bring about an inquest for 5 years, after his death the new British coroner agreed to run an inquest. But the fact still remains that any French citizen who doesn't want to testify doesn't have to. The current coroner asked the French government to compell the paparazzi to testify and also the French-Vietnamese man who it's believed to have been the driver of the white Fiat Uno that caused the accident to testify. But the French government have maintained that it's the individual's choice and they won't compell them.
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Oh ok I got it cause I read this(the article below) and got confused. I'm assuming it's just what you have told me right?

The coroner in the Princess Diana inquest has said he may appeal against a ruling blocking the use of statements from paparazzi who refuse to attend. Lord Justice Scott Baker had said the French photographers’ statements could be admitted as evidence.
However, the High Court backed a challenge to this ruling.
The princess, her companion Dodi Al Fayed and their chauffeur Henri Paul died when their car crashed in Paris while being pursued by photographers.
The coroner said the High Court judgement could make it hard to present vital evidence.
Disputed evidence
The photographers were asked to appear in person at the hearing.
They declined, and the French government has backed their right not to appear.
Lord Justice Scott Baker decided their statements could be read to the jury, in order to allow the evidence to be heard.
But lawyers acting for the family of Mr Paul and for Mohamed Al Fayed, Dodi’s father, said they should be able to cross-examine the paparazzi.
They argued that the Coroners’ Rules 1984 prevented the admission of purely written evidence unless it was “unlikely to be disputed”.
‘Determined’
On Tuesday, Judges Lord Justice Thomas and Mrs Justice Dobbs ruled in their favour.
But Lord Justice Scott Baker said he had immediately and successfully applied for leave to appeal their judgment.
In a statement, he said the judges’ decision could “add materially to the length and cost of these inquests”, and make it “more difficult” to allow the jury to hear evidence from absent witnesses.
He added that he was “determined to do his utmost to ensure that all relevant evidence is put before the jury”.
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Source BBC


I actually take back what I said earlier the Fiat Uno could have been planned. My mom talked to me about it and it sorta made sense. I mean even with a dog and the risk he still could have been payed and have taken the money even with knowing the risk. The dog could fit into it being that he wanted to make it seem as normal as possible.But really I'm not that much of a conspiracy theory lover but I can see how all this surfaced. Doesn't mean it's true or anything I'm just trying to analyze all the evidence in both the it was just "an accident" and the "conspiracy theory" view. Although I do think the medical care is all true and they did what they could.
 
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gfg02 said:
If the French magistrate in charge didn't authorize the embalming, who did and why?
Mortician wishes he had waited to embalm Diana's body
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The answer to your question is in your accompanying news link:

"Jean Monceau, testifying via videolink from Paris told the inquest in London’s High Court that no one ordered him to embalm the body. Monceau said he himself suggested it after Keith Moss, the British consul general in Paris, told him to prepare the body for viewing by Prince Charles, the princess’s former husband.

He told me to do what was necessary. It was not possible to present the body in the state it was," Monceau said." [my bolding]

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Excerpts from the Paget Report, chapter 9, pages 532 - 557:

The French funeral directors had also called for ice to place near the Princess of Wales’ body in an attempt to keep her body cool. Neither action appeared to be particularly successful.​

Dodi Al Fayed’s body was lying at the IML mortuary. The Paris IML mortuary is at a separate location from Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital. He had been taken there directly from the scene. No request was made to have Dodi Al Fayed embalmed. He was repatriated to the United Kingdom later that day on a private flight.​

The process of embalming the Princess of Wales took place between the hours of 2pm and 4.30pm, approximately. Operation Paget is aware of a widespread belief that embalming took place within an hour of her death. This is not the case.​

Public Prosecutor, Maud Coujard had no further responsibility for the two bodies as the deaths were attributed to the crash and not considered to be suspicious. She was not involved in any way in the decision to embalm.​

As no suspicious circumstances were associated with the medical issues Professor Riou signed the relevant form, stating that there were no legal/medical obstacles associated with the body. The Deputy Public Prosecutor then signed a burial certificate for the Princess of Wales and relinquished all responsibility for her body, including any decision on embalming. ​

The embalming of the Princess of Wales’ body then proceeded in accordance with the ‘Code Général des Collectivités Territoriales’ (Articles R.2213-2) detailed above for non-suspicious deaths.

The evidence shows that all involved in the decision to embalm the Princess of Wales believed it was necessary to make her body presentable before viewing. Jean Monceau, an experienced French embalmer, believed this was the only way to ensure the Princess of Wales was presentable. He discounted the use of dry ice or mortuary cleansing because of the extent of her injuries.

Other views were influenced by the heat in the room and the effect it was having on the Princess of Wales’ body.

It is the Operation Paget view that it was not illegal to embalm the Princess of Wales in these circumstances in France.
The evidence of the French embalmer Jean Monceau is that he clearly believed the embalming was necessary and lawful, notwithstanding the fact that authorities were verbal. [my bolding]
 
i may be mistaken and please correct me if i am, in the muslim religion it is custom to wash the body and wrap it in a clean white cloth and burial takes place the same day. this would explain why embalming isn't needed. embalming delays the decomposition process and in western cultures, where viewing the body and the funeral can take days, embalming is done.
 
The Di Express certainly knows how to 'alter' the facts -

And the hearing was also told the princess feared her telephone calls were being tapped in the months leading up to her death. (HE SAID "She never expressed that concern but her actions were such, in terms of changing her telephone number, that it was clear that that was a concern to her,)

Diana’s former private secretary Michael Gibbins told London’s High Court that he detected “disapproval” from within the royal echelons about Diana’s lovers. (HE SAID whether disapproval was coming not just from the tabloid press but the royal household itself. -"I'm not sure that I was directly aware of that but by inference certainly," Mr Gibbins replied)

He insists they were murdered because the security services had discovered she was pregnant by Dodi and it would cause embarrassment to the establishment. (THEY SEEM TO BE SAYING THIS IS WHAT HER PRIVATE SECRETARY INSISTS, WHICH HE DOESN'T)

"Michael Gibbins, identified four men whose relationships with the princess had caused concern among courtiers. They were Will Carling, the England rugby captain, Major James Hewitt, James Gilbey - who was involved in the "Squidgygate" affair - and Barry Mannakee, her former protection officer"

HOW WOULD HE KNOW, HE HAD ONLY WORKED FOR HER FOR JUST OVER A YEAR. :rolleyes:
 
Skydragon said:
"Michael Gibbins, identified four men whose relationships with the princess had caused concern among courtiers. They were Will Carling, the England rugby captain, Major James Hewitt, James Gilbey - who was involved in the "Squidgygate" affair - and Barry Mannakee, her former protection officer"

HOW WOULD HE KNOW, HE HAD ONLY WORKED FOR HER FOR JUST OVER A YEAR. :rolleyes:
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from other sources, I think it was stated that the names of Diana's lovers were identified by Michael Mansfield,QC who represents Mohamed al Fayed.Michael Gibbins's reponse was "which one?"
 
The mail identifies 5 lovers. It's about time there was some mention of these men in the Diana myth.
 
Duchess said:
i may be mistaken and please correct me if i am, in the muslim religion it is custom to wash the body and wrap it in a clean white cloth and burial takes place the same day. this would explain why embalming isn't needed. embalming delays the decomposition process and in western cultures, where viewing the body and the funeral can take days, embalming is done.
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Thats right. Both Islamic and Jewish burials take place as soon as possible, usually the day after death. Embalming however, is forbidden by both.
 
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