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  #741  
Old 01-13-2008, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TheTruth View Post
(my bolding)

And the other way round . Great post Skydragon ; you just need to read a pro-Camilla and a pro-Diana book and compare both to see how contradictory they are. And I rarely think the truth is in one and only version.
Thank You, with regards to the books, you are right there are segments of truth and complete lies in books about both parties, but I tend to rely on a 'been there, seen that, got the Tshirt' knowledge. I would however say that the only people who know what really goes on within a marriage are the people themselves.
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  #742  
Old 01-13-2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Thank You, with regards to the books, you are right there are segments of truth and complete lies in books about both parties, but I tend to rely on a 'been there, seen that, got the Tshirt' knowledge. I would however say that the only people who know what really goes on within a marriage are the people themselves.
Absolutely. And I don't even know if I would believe Diana, Charles or Camilla on their "truth". Experiences, reactions, etc. depends immensely on each individual's subjectivity so it seems that we would have exactly the same problem.
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  #743  
Old 01-13-2008, 05:32 PM
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The problem is that unless someone is able to provide 'hard copy' evidence, people can get away with saying anything that takes their fancy or reinforces their version.
Its less and less easy when a court and public opinion have a vested interest in finding that someone lied about something under oath.

We're finding that out in America with some baseball stars who made some very creative testimony to Congress regarding use of steroids and the funny thing is that the evidence doesn't even conclusively point to their using steroids just to the point that they lied about something in front of Congress.

So I think if you lie in front of a jury and there is someone who has a motive for making you pay for it then they will find a way to see that you are brought on perjury charges.

I think perjury is rather an easy way to pursue a prosecution against someone because if someone gives detailed and lengthy testimony, there is always something that doesn't fit.

For Paul Burrell, it could be someone who tape recorded a conversation where Burrell said that he saw no letter from Phillip. With tiny tape recorders, its not that hard to catch someone in a lie if you suspect them and they fall into your trap.

For Prince Philip's official, it may be a bit harder but it can be some correspondence that showed the official knew of some damning communication from Philip to Diana.
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  #744  
Old 01-14-2008, 12:16 AM
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I've been waiting the entire time of this inquest for what Paul Burrell was going to add...since we aren't going to hear from the French paps and the Vietnamese driver of the now red painted Fiat Uno....
  #745  
Old 01-14-2008, 12:25 AM
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As per Simone Simmons' tesitmony, even articulate people like her can be reduced to mumblings on the witness stand in the hands of a lawyer...Both Simone and Ingrid Seward (a royal biographer I have admired for decades) were reduced to ashes when they appeared together by Joy Behar on the American morning chat show "The View"...
  #746  
Old 01-14-2008, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
The problem is that unless someone is able to provide 'hard copy' evidence, people can get away with saying anything that takes their fancy or reinforces their version. Perjury has to be proven and if it is a case of Burrell saying Diana told him this or that, or Diana showed him a letter but then destroyed it, it comes down to who you want to believe.
The same applies to the variety of books written by a variety of authors, if they lie who is going to challenge them. How can you prove that Diana didn't say this or Charles didn't do that, you can't and so it is left to the individual to make up their own mind. Either from experience, common sense, common or personal knowledge. There will always be people willing to believe the worst of Charles/Camilla and best of Diana, based soley on the tabloid stories/books they have read.
I think, Skydragon, that these days, it's not so easy to 'get away with saying anything'. Recent court actions by the Palace have demonstrated this.

You are right in saying that some will be willing to believe badly of Charles and Camilla and everything good about Diana, but the reverse is also true. Diana's reputation has taken a battering from many quarters, including, even, this Board, and she will never be able to respond. Alone, amongst them all, she, in law, cannot be slandered because she's dead! Me, I like(d) all protagonists and see much to admire in all three, though I perceived, what are to me, serious flaws in ethical standards, behaviour and character in each. Nonetheless, as I'm far from being a perfect human being myself, I incline towards the many positives which can be ascribed to all parties.
  #747  
Old 01-14-2008, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Its less and less easy when a court and public opinion have a vested interest in finding that someone lied about something under oath.

We're finding that out in America with some baseball stars who made some very creative testimony to Congress regarding use of steroids and the funny thing is that the evidence doesn't even conclusively point to their using steroids just to the point that they lied about something in front of Congress.

So I think if you lie in front of a jury and there is someone who has a motive for making you pay for it then they will find a way to see that you are brought on perjury charges.

I think perjury is rather an easy way to pursue a prosecution against someone because if someone gives detailed and lengthy testimony, there is always something that doesn't fit.

For Paul Burrell, it could be someone who tape recorded a conversation where Burrell said that he saw no letter from Phillip. With tiny tape recorders, its not that hard to catch someone in a lie if you suspect them and they fall into your trap.

For Prince Philip's official, it may be a bit harder but it can be some correspondence that showed the official knew of some damning communication from Philip to Diana.
It is so easy to say Diana told me this or Philip wrote that, but it is all just hearsay without backup. Burrell has a score to settle and I believe that he will use this opportunity. Burrell may be lacking in intelligence, but I can't see him admiting to anyone that he has lied or even his true relationship with Diana. It would have been wonderful if Charles had decided to attend, then we would see how much 'truth' Burrell would have spoken of then!
  #748  
Old 01-14-2008, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
It is so easy to say Diana told me this or Philip wrote that, but it is all just hearsay without backup. Burrell has a score to settle and I believe that he will use this opportunity. Burrell may be lacking in intelligence, but I can't see him admiting to anyone that he has lied or even his true relationship with Diana. It would have been wonderful if Charles had decided to attend, then we would see how much 'truth' Burrell would have spoken of then!
Well, after having read the transcripts of how Mansfield, Mo's lawyer, treats witnesses, I am not astonished that eg Dr. Khan decided not to give evidence. I'm looking forward to today's transcript.
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  #749  
Old 01-14-2008, 06:59 AM
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I just read Lucia Flecha de Lima's statement that she had read the letter prince Philip wrote to Diana on June 18th and that it was a nice and helpful letter. he wrote it two days after the Morton book was published, so I guess if he was not nasty then, he never was. That much to the question of the prince's "nasty" letters.
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  #750  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
I think, Skydragon, that these days, it's not so easy to 'get away with saying anything'. Recent court actions by the Palace have demonstrated this.

You are right in saying that some will be willing to believe badly of Charles and Camilla and everything good about Diana, but the reverse is also true. Diana's reputation has taken a battering from many quarters, including, even, this Board, and she will never be able to respond. Alone, amongst them all, she, in law, cannot be slandered because she's dead! Me, I like(d) all protagonists and see much to admire in all three, though I perceived, what are to me, serious flaws in ethical standards, behaviour and character in each. Nonetheless, as I'm far from being a perfect human being myself, I incline towards the many positives which can be ascribed to all parties.
Your very thoughtful post has brought me full circle. I don’t like Diana, I never identified with her, nor did I ever admire her. I have been very clear on what I’ve thought of her actions, but here we are talking about someone who was flesh and blood. She paid the ultimate price for all the wrongs she’s done, when most of us get many chances, let’s say sadly it’s no one’s fault. It’s not my place to ask/say, but have mercy on her soul, she’s dead is that not enough? How depressing...
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  #751  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Chimene View Post
Your very thoughtful post has brought me full circle. I donít like Diana, I never identified with her, nor did I ever admire her. I have been very clear on what Iíve thought of her actions, but here we are talking about someone who was flesh and blood. She paid the ultimate price for all the wrongs sheís done, when most of us get many chances, letís say sadly itís no oneís fault. Itís not my place to ask/say, but have mercy on her soul, sheís dead is that not enough? How depressing...
You surely have a point here but it is not our fault that the inquest has happened but through it, we have a chance to hear for the first time people's reminiscensing of Diana not filtered through journalists or author's of books but directly. And I think it's very interesting to hear especially the witnesses who have not spoken up before but do so now to help, those who never made a farthing even though they could. Myriah Daniels explained that in an interesting way: what happened to her once it became known that she had been a part of the company of people surrounding Diana and Dodi on their last journey:

I would like for you to be aware of the fact
13 that what I did with Channel 5, "Last days of
14 a Princess" --after Scotland Yard identified me in
15 their report as having been there, because nobody knew
16 I was there, and I started getting lots of calls, people
17 tracking me down, and people were offering money to me
18 right, left and sideways, and the bottom line was -- as
19 I asked "Who are you and what are you doing?"
20 Channel 5 was the only one -- it was Discovery
21 Channel, the Learning Channel, they were the only ones
22 who did not offer me money, but they offered me
23 something that they did on a documentary on World War II
24 and on 911 and I actually was impressed with what they
25 did in their re-animation of an event and I went there
and I did that. I was not paid for it.

If you compare that to Simone Simmons, who "doesn't have a clue" how much she made from her books - Come on!

So I think this is a unique chance to follow the inquest and to talk about the picture that emerges of the princess, how it fits in with the information given by the authors of books and journalists. We're always trying to discuss here on using halfways reliable sources so this is a chance not to miss out. Even though you're right: she is dead, she cannot defend herself but she was a person of global history and thus is an object of historical research.
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  #752  
Old 01-14-2008, 11:45 AM
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i've just read the cnn piece...not sure if burrell is finished his testimony but i didn't see any bombshell's there....nothing that we didn't already know. is he going to be testifying tomorrow?
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  #753  
Old 01-14-2008, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
I just read Lucia Flecha de Lima's statement that she had read the letter prince Philip wrote to Diana on June 18th and that it was a nice and helpful letter. he wrote it two days after the Morton book was published, so I guess if he was not nasty then, he never was. That much to the question of the prince's "nasty" letters.
i have a good feeling about this lady. she appears to have been one of the most solid and reliable people in diana's life and that would lead me to believe that this statement would be one of the most reliable pieces of evidence. people take things in different ways and perhaps if diana were not in a good frame of mind the day she read philip's letter she might have taken something out of context or misconstrued the meaning.
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  #754  
Old 01-14-2008, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
You surely have a point here but it is not our fault that the inquest has happened but through it, we have a chance to hear for the first time people's reminiscensing of Diana not filtered through journalists or author's of books but directly. And I think it's very interesting to hear especially the witnesses who have not spoken up before but do so now to help, those who never made a farthing even though they could. Myriah Daniels explained that in an interesting way: what happened to her once it became known that she had been a part of the company of people surrounding Diana and Dodi on their last journey:

I would like for you to be aware of the fact
13 that what I did with Channel 5, "Last days of
14 a Princess" --after Scotland Yard identified me in
15 their report as having been there, because nobody knew
16 I was there, and I started getting lots of calls, people
17 tracking me down, and people were offering money to me
18 right, left and sideways, and the bottom line was -- as
19 I asked "Who are you and what are you doing?"
20 Channel 5 was the only one -- it was Discovery
21 Channel, the Learning Channel, they were the only ones
22 who did not offer me money, but they offered me
23 something that they did on a documentary on World War II
24 and on 911 and I actually was impressed with what they
25 did in their re-animation of an event and I went there
and I did that. I was not paid for it.

If you compare that to Simone Simmons, who "doesn't have a clue" how much she made from her books - Come on!

So I think this is a unique chance to follow the inquest and to talk about the picture that emerges of the princess, how it fits in with the information given by the authors of books and journalists. We're always trying to discuss here on using halfways reliable sources so this is a chance not to miss out. Even though you're right: she is dead, she cannot defend herself but she was a person of global history and thus is an object of historical research.

I have to question the lawyer for asking that line of questioning to Simone...regarding her profits from Diana...and I wonder if he asked that same line of questioning from Wharfe and/or Burrell on how much to the penny and pence they made.

That being said, Simone was present during a time when Diana was on some sort of quest that was leading her away from the teachings of the COE to New Age thought and Islam. Also, I believe Diana poured her soul and secrets out to people like Simone and it would have been helpful if the lawyer had not focused so much on Simone's personal profits but on how much Diana relied on her as a prophetess!

Simone was extraordinarily vocal on CNN on the 10th anniversary of the crash speaking about her concern as to "why" the Alma tunnel was washed down after the crash.
  #755  
Old 01-14-2008, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess View Post
i've just read the cnn piece...not sure if burrell is finished his testimony but i didn't see any bombshell's there....nothing that we didn't already know. is he going to be testifying tomorrow?
Ex-Butler Paul Burrell Arrives To Give Evidence At Diana Inquest |Sky News|UK News

Paul Burrell has told a High Court hearing he approached his wife's priest towards the end of 1996 to ask about the possibility of a private marriage.
Did anyone mention this to Khan?

Well, I was at the hub of the wheel and everyone else was on a spoke. I connected all the Princess's friends and all her world. It all came to the centre and to me.
He seems to be under the illusion that he was the centre of her universe!
  #756  
Old 01-14-2008, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Ex-Butler Paul Burrell Arrives To Give Evidence At Diana Inquest |Sky News|UK News

Paul Burrell has told a High Court hearing he approached his wife's priest towards the end of 1996 to ask about the possibility of a private marriage.
Did anyone mention this to Khan?

Well, I was at the hub of the wheel and everyone else was on a spoke. I connected all the Princess's friends and all her world. It all came to the centre and to me.
He seems to be under the illusion that he was the centre of her universe!
yeah but none of this is new....his book talks about inquiring about marriage to khan and his overblown sense of self importance is well known. so i'm still left wondering where the bombshells are and if he has anything new or important to add or if this is just one more opportunity to put himself back into the spotlight???
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  #757  
Old 01-14-2008, 01:48 PM
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I just caught the last few moments of a live news report on "CNN Headline News" outside the courtroom of the inquest. I believe Paul Burrell has been ask to reappear tomorrow with some letters in his possession.
  #758  
Old 01-14-2008, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkie40 View Post
I just caught the last few moments of a live news report on "CNN Headline News" outside the courtroom of the inquest. I believe Paul Burrell has been ask to reappear tomorrow with some letters in his possession.
Yes, he acknowledged having possession of certain documents but then tried to tell the attorneys that these documents have been destroyed and now all attorneys including the coroner himself are very keen on getting their hands on the material... LOL. Quite unpleasant for Burrell, for her has to travel tonight with an escort to Cheshire to his home there to get the material and to return tomorrow from 12.00 am to talk about these documents. Well, I quite had a laugh about it. Serves him right, IMHO.
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  #759  
Old 01-14-2008, 02:43 PM
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Ugh, is anyone else sickened by this old queen wheeling out his tired line of waffle? He apparantly told friends he was going to be in all the headlines with an explosive revelation - unfortunately for him we all knew he was a friend of Dorothy's the moment he took a fancy to Di's dresses.
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  #760  
Old 01-14-2008, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Ex-Butler Paul Burrell Arrives To Give Evidence At Diana Inquest |Sky News|UK News

Paul Burrell has told a High Court hearing he approached his wife's priest towards the end of 1996 to ask about the possibility of a private marriage.
Did anyone mention this to Khan?
I'm assuming he's referring to a Catholic priest since Maria B. is Catholic. I CANNOT imagine any Catholic priest agreeing to marry a non-Catholic divorcee princess to a Muslim man. It would even seem silly to me to approach a Catholic priest with such a question.

And what's the point of the little farce about revealing the name of the mystery royal who warned Diana that her apartments were bugged?
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