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  #561  
Old 12-17-2007, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
They probably were a pair of her fathers cufflinks, probably just one set of the many pairs he discarded over the years that Diana had kept. I think it was just something she wrote to make the gift sound significant to the recipient.

She has not suggested they were important to her and that is why I believe they were just a thank you gift, to someone she had enjoyed a fling with.
Maybe it even was ironic, because she knew that for this daddy's boy a reference to an actual daddy was much more important than a reference to herself.

As for cufflinks, really, men used to wear dress shirts have an abundance of the stuff because they get them all the time as gifts themselves. At least here in Germany it used to be considered to be a very male gift but a very impersonal one at the same time. Like a tie or a cravat needle. Cufflinks are not longer much in use, as most shirts nowadays have buttons but for people wearing smoking or cut often they are still needed. Thus I believe it was an appropriate gift for Dodi, who treated her to a lot of outings were he wore evening dress but I think, too, that she wrote that only to make it a bit more personal. Didn't she refer to her father normally as "Daddy"? And maybe someone should ask Lady Sarah McCorquodale when Diana purchased these cufflinks. I'm sure Diana kept the receipt somewhere...
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  #562  
Old 12-17-2007, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
Well, Warren why bring up that Diana had 5 or more lovers at the inquest? What does that do but make Diana look like a slut.
Maybe it should prove that Diana in fact slept with Dodi after such short acquaintance. There are people like I think, Rosa Monckton who claim that Diana didn't even sleep with Dodi so how could she become pregnant? In order to prove a potential pregnancy, they maybe felt they have to prove a sexual relationship first...
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  #563  
Old 12-17-2007, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
As for cufflinks, really, men used to wear dress shirts have an abundance of the stuff because they get them all the time as gifts themselves. At least here in Germany it used to be considered to be a very male gift but a very impersonal one at the same time. Like a tie or a cravat needle. Cufflinks are not longer much in use, as most shirts nowadays have buttons but for people wearing smoking or cut often they are still needed. Thus I believe it was an appropriate gift for Dodi, who treated her to a lot of outings where he wore evening dress but I think, too, that she wrote that only to make it a bit more personal. Didn't she refer to her father normally as "Daddy"? And maybe someone should ask Lady Sarah McCorquodale when Diana purchased these cufflinks. I'm sure Diana kept the receipt somewhere...
Yes, even here they are still 'de rigeour' for a lot of men (and women). I thought it was just my mob that had dozens of pairs as gifts over the years. Most of the London shirt makers offer casual shirts with the option of button fastening, but most formal shirts come with a need for cufflinks.
  #564  
Old 12-17-2007, 09:06 AM
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Yes, even here they are still 'de rigeour' for a lot of men (and women). I thought it was just my mob that had dozens of pairs as gifts over the years. Most of the London shirt makers offer casual shirts with the option of button fastening, but most formal shirts come with a need for cufflinks.
I have two sets as well for blouses, because I like them as accessory to otherwise too sober looking business suits. But I wouldn't dream of wearing cufflinks that belonged to my father - mine are much more feminine, smaller and more elaborate than the ones he used to prefer. AFAIK women never wear gentlemen's cufflinks and vice versa - so what did the late earl allegedly gave to his daughter or why would Diana give women's cufflinks to a man?
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  #565  
Old 12-17-2007, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Maybe it should prove that Diana in fact slept with Dodi after such short acquaintance. There are people like I think, Rosa Monckton who claim that Diana didn't even sleep with Dodi so how could she become pregnant? In order to prove a potential pregnancy, they maybe felt they have to prove a sexual relationship first...
Jo of Palatine-thanks for your idea. It does make a lot of sense to me. But, I still don't know why they had to show all her men relationships, because I don't think she had sex with all of her men friends. Some, if I read correctly were friends to go out with. And on the Squidygate tape? (spelling) she was afraid to get pregnant I thought. So how could all these men prove she was pregnant with a child from Dodi?

To me, and the class structure that I come from in the US, Diana giving her last gift from her father speaks volumes to where that relationship was going and that it wasn't a summer fling.

I sure don't like some of the things coming out at this inquest, but some new developments have gotten my interest. It is showing to me that Mr. al Fayed is not totally a liar or totally at fault for that tragic accident. I do feel sorry for the Princes. Prince Harry even has said, in a interview before the Concert for Diana that "we will never now all the details of what happen that night." I just wish that this inquest did not take over ten years. Ten years is too long for all family members involved to rehash the details and to live with questions.

I also hope for all family members involved that after this inquest is over that they let both Princess Diana and Dodi rest in peace.
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  #566  
Old 12-17-2007, 12:17 PM
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'Diana Did Not Plan To Marry Dodi'

Princess Diana told a close friend she needed marriage to Dodi Fayed "like a rash on my face" days before the couple died in a car crash, an inquest has heard.

Princess Diana's Friend Says Dodi Fayed Marriage Plans Not True |Sky News|UK News

French police investigating the car crash which killed Princess Diana never suggested it was anything other than a tragic accident, her inquest has heard.

BBC NEWS | UK | 'No suggestion' of Diana murder
  #567  
Old 12-17-2007, 02:15 PM
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Princess Diana's Friend Says Dodi Fayed Marriage Plans Not True - Yahoo! News UK
Diana needed marriage "like rash on my face" - Yahoo! News UK
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  #568  
Old 12-17-2007, 08:00 PM
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I just have to have my say about the cufflinks before that topic is overtaken by the latest scoop from the inquest.

The letter:

Letter 2 - dated August 13, 1997
"Darling Dodi,
"These cufflinks were the very last gift that I received from the man I loved most in the world - My Father -
"They are given to you as I know how much joy it would give him to know they were in such safe & special hands...
"Fondest love, from, Diana. x"

indicates to me that Diana did not regard her relationship with Dodi as merely a summer fling. This was a very significant gift, and it, and the wording she's used, tell me that she thought of Dodi as very special, and wanted the relationship to keep going to see where it will end up. I imagine - and hope - that she was having a wonderful time with Dodi; that he was treating her well and giving her the kind of affection and attention that she craved.

And my views about this are not changed by reading that she told Lady Goldsmith that she needed marriage like a rash on her face. Marriage had not exactly treated her kindly and I think she'd want to be very sure before committing to another one.
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  #569  
Old 12-17-2007, 09:08 PM
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Maybe the truth of the relationship of Diana and Dodi was somewhere between the contrasting speculations: Serious but not ready for marriage, serious enough to be more than "summer fling" but not like having-a-baby serious.
  #570  
Old 12-18-2007, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I just have to have my say about the cufflinks before that topic is overtaken by the latest scoop from the inquest.

The letter:

Letter 2 - dated August 13, 1997
"Darling Dodi,
"These cufflinks were the very last gift that I received from the man I loved most in the world - My Father -
"They are given to you as I know how much joy it would give him to know they were in such safe & special hands...
"Fondest love, from, Diana. x"

indicates to me that Diana did not regard her relationship with Dodi as merely a summer fling. This was a very significant gift, and it, and the wording she's used, tell me that she thought of Dodi as very special, and wanted the relationship to keep going to see where it will end up. I imagine - and hope - that she was having a wonderful time with Dodi; that he was treating her well and giving her the kind of affection and attention that she craved.

And my views about this are not changed by reading that she told Lady Goldsmith that she needed marriage like a rash on her face. Marriage had not exactly treated her kindly and I think she'd want to be very sure before committing to another one.
You have every right to your own opinion about the relationship between Diana and Dodi, but one should not forget why all these information is made public, why all these people speak up now: to come to a solid conclusion if Diana and Dodi were one day from announcing their marriage plans to the world when they died. If not, then there is absolutely no motive for murder.

I think we have heard enough statements now to discard the notion Diana was pregnant and thus forced to marry Dodi. Now the question is: did she want to marry him anyway and right then, as Al-Fayed claims he has already been told this as a fact by Diana.

For me, the "cufflinks"-letter does not speak of imminent marriage plans (at least I have never met someone who gave his new fiance cufflinks - Daddy-provenience nonewithstanding...): neither is the letter overly romantic or the gift a token of real love. I mean, I can understand why Diana would Dodi give cufflinks, be they a gift from her father or part in a made-up story of provenance. But I cannot believe that cufflinks are tokens of such a love that would make Diana getting rid of her name as a princess.

Fo me, this letter, as it seems to be the best Al-Fayed can provide, is the clear proof that Diana and Dodi did not plan to get married. Maybe not yet, okay, but that's not important for the inquest. But without a proper motive - why should someone bother to create such a complicated and unreliable plan to kill Diana in a Paris underpass?

She had all kinds of strange healing or wellness procedures done to her - like enemas etc. I've a book here called "Deadly Doses" - a writer's guide to poisons by Serita Stevens. In it she describes not only the poisons and the way they work, but methods of administrations as well. Believe me, MI6 could have killed Diana by rectal administration anytime during one of these wellness applications without leaving traces that point to other reasons but natural ones (with a medical history of bulimia you have a much higher risk to die of a heart attack or collaps than others). So why bother with tunnels in France? Especially as she was not oing to get engaged to al-fayed jr. anytime soon, as Lady Annabel stated?
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  #571  
Old 12-18-2007, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
You have every right to your own opinion about the relationship between Diana and Dodi, but one should not forget why all these information is made public, why all these people speak up now: to come to a solid conclusion if Diana and Dodi were one day from announcing their marriage plans to the world when they died. If not, then there is absolutely no motive for murder.
I have always thought, Jo of Palatine, that if it was murder it was because Princess Diana's champion getting rid of landmines. the Landmine cause was just getting rolling that last six months of her life and I truly believe the MI6 and CIA were keeping tabs on her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
I think we have heard enough statements now to discard the notion Diana was pregnant and thus forced to marry Dodi. Now the question is: did she want to marry him anyway and right then, as Al-Fayed claims he has already been told this as a fact by Diana.
Jo of Palatine, the only bad thing that I could see Mr. al Fayed getting out of this is finally sticking it to the establishment that shun him. I do agree that some of his statements have proven to be lies, but as a parent he must have a gut feeling about it not being an accident. Could it be possible that the grief, but him over the edge mentally and he really in his heart might feel that people are out to get him and his family? But getting back to Princess Diana. I think Diana would have taken it slow, but might be married to Dodi now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
For me, the "cufflinks"-letter does not speak of imminent marriage plans (at least I have never met someone who gave his new fiance cufflinks - Daddy-provenience nonewithstanding...): neither is the letter overly romantic or the gift a token of real love. I mean, I can understand why Diana would Dodi give cufflinks, be they a gift from her father or part in a made-up story of provenance. But I cannot believe that cufflinks are tokens of such a love that would make Diana getting rid of her name as a princess.


I think she was moving on after the divorce and wanted love and more children, so the title was getting to be irrelavant to her. She also wanted to be under Mr. Tony Blair an embasater for England, so to me that would be her new title.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Fo me, this letter, as it seems to be the best Al-Fayed can provide, is the clear proof that Diana and Dodi did not plan to get married. Maybe not yet, okay, but that's not important for the inquest. But without a proper motive - why should someone bother to create such a complicated and unreliable plan to kill Diana in a Paris underpass?[\quote]

Simply to me LANDMINES.


She had all kinds of strange healing or wellness procedures done to her - like enemas etc. I've a book here called "Deadly Doses" - a writer's guide to poisons by Serita Stevens. In it she describes not only the poisons and the way they work, but methods of administrations as well. Believe me, MI6 could have killed Diana by rectal administration anytime during one of these wellness applications without leaving traces that point to other reasons but natural ones (with a medical history of bulimia you have a much higher risk to die of a heart attack or collaps than others). So why bother with tunnels in France? Especially as she was not oing to get engaged to al-fayed jr. anytime soon, as Lady Annabel stated?
Was she doing those healing still? I thought she gave them up after she got over bulimia.
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  #572  
Old 12-18-2007, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
You have every right to your own opinion about the relationship between Diana and Dodi, but one should not forget why all these information is made public, why all these people speak up now: to come to a solid conclusion if Diana and Dodi were one day from announcing their marriage plans to the world when they died. If not, then there is absolutely no motive for murder.
I think a lot of people including myself have discarded the real purpose of this inquest because it is ludicrous.

I don't think anyone in his right mind would think that Prince Philip commandeered Diana's death whether because she was pregnant, going to marry Dodi or any other farfetched reason. But be it that we have an inquest, these public proceedings are good means to find out a different perspective on some human relationships namely Prince Philip and Diana and Dodi and Diana.

But Diana's friends have maintained that she told them she was going to drop Dodi and the letter doesn't bear that out.

I don't care what the real reasons for the inquest is. I can take the evidence provided and make conclusions about something totally unrelated to the purpose of the proceedings.

That's is the side effect of a public proceeding. The public can make a lot more conclusions based on what is presented than what the original purpose of the proceedings intended. That's the danger of public proceedings if there is no real need for them.
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  #573  
Old 12-18-2007, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post

I have always thought, Jo of Palatine, that if it was murder it was because Princess Diana's champion getting rid of landmines. the Landmine cause was just getting rolling that last six months of her life and I truly believe the MI6 and CIA were keeping tabs on her.
I really doubt MI6 or the CIA or another "official" Secret Service would bother with activists against landmines in form of murder. It would have been much easier for them, if it was their purpose to discredit Diana, to let things just happen. Diana, activist against landmines, consorts in private with the nephew of Kashoggi. Now that's reason for a big laugh and with the right way of publicity against Diana it could have turned her into a laughingstock.

With the merchants in death it's a different thing. They could have had a motive on showing the "Kashoggi"-side who's the boss while doing away with the most prominent activist of that time. Mr. Al Fayed surely has had his reasons never to bring up these speculations in public...

But on't get me started on that...
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  #574  
Old 12-18-2007, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
I really doubt MI6 or the CIA or another "official" Secret Service would bother with activists against landmines in form of murder. It would have been much easier for them, if it was their purpose to discredit Diana, to let things just happen. Diana, activist against landmines, consorts in private with the nephew of Kashoggi. Now that's reason for a big laugh and with the right way of publicity against Diana it could have turned her into a laughingstock.
This is true Jo. But Princess Diana always had a way to come back into the publics' good graces. (Just like in the United States with our Princess, Jackie O.) So to me she was a threat to two countries, that as far as I know did not want the ban on landmines to pass.

Quote:
With the merchants in death it's a different thing. They could have had a motive on showing the "Kashoggi"-side who's the boss while doing away with the most prominent activist of that time. Mr. Al Fayed surely has had his reasons never to bring up these speculations in public... But on't get me started on that...
This is also true Jo. The merchants could have done it. Here in America we still hear about President Kennedy's assination. Was it our CIA and Mafia working together, Mafia alone, or Oswald alone? I will be curious and hope to be alive when Jackie's tape come out fifty years after her death.

I am just watching this whole inquest and trying to see both sides as best I can. I think it is very interesting, and it must be terrible for princes and Mr al Fayed.
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  #575  
Old 12-18-2007, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by georgiea
Was she doing those healing still? I thought she gave them up after she got over bulimia.
1) I would say that one probably never "gets over" an eating disorder such as Diana experienced for the better part of her adult life. It's that she achieved a command over it and learned to "beat it" but I think it is similar, perhaps, to being an recovering alcoholic. You have command of the disease but it is always ........ I guess a part of your life, in a sense.
2) She always maintained various kinds of treatments, not for bulimia at all. What Jo meant, I think, is the kind of treatments she sought from London practitioners, such as homeopathy, deep tissue massage, and acupuncture.
  #576  
Old 12-18-2007, 11:06 AM
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I think a lot of people including myself have discarded the real purpose of this inquest because it is ludicrous.

I don't think anyone in his right mind would think that Prince Philip commandeered Diana's death whether because she was pregnant, going to marry Dodi or any other farfetched reason. But be it that we have an inquest, these public proceedings are good means to find out a different perspective on some human relationships namely Prince Philip and Diana and Dodi and Diana.

But Diana's friends have maintained that she told them she was going to drop Dodi and the letter doesn't bear that out.

I don't care what the real reasons for the inquest is. I can take the evidence provided and make conclusions about something totally unrelated to the purpose of the proceedings.

That's is the side effect of a public proceeding. The public can make a lot more conclusions based on what is presented than what the original purpose of the proceedings intended. That's the danger of public proceedings if there is no real need for them.
So totally true!
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  #577  
Old 12-18-2007, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
1)
2) She always maintained various kinds of treatments, not for bulimia at all. What Jo meant, I think, is the kind of treatments she sought from London practitioners, such as homeopathy, deep tissue massage, and acupuncture.
Yes, that's what I meant. Thank you, Ashley.
I talked to my mother-in-law (sometimes I wonder when I do work, but I do...) about it. She is a doctor in public service, responsible to view bodies before cremation to make sure the doctor of the deceased did not overlook murder... She said that with these kinds of treatments it can happen all the time. Allergic reactions are very common and it's close to impossible to find out if the histamine which caused the deadly allergy was produced by the body in reaction to the treatment or if it was applied by a third person. If there is a medical record of bulimia, you could forget to prove that the death wasn't natural as bulimia patients pay a tough toll when it comes to their immune system, allergies and health.

I gathered from her information that this is quite a safe method to get rid of divorced princesses. And she was so keen on meeting new people with new methods to improve her life! While OTOH Diana could have survived if she only had worn a safety belt on that fatal night...
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  #578  
Old 12-18-2007, 11:53 AM
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Jo, I have read your recent posts here very closely and been wanting to point out that your point about MI6 is excellent.

You are right, and I have been thinking it for some time, that MI6 has (how can I say it) easy breezy assasination methods at its disposal, just like CIA and every other "sophisticated" (hate calling murder sophisticated) intelligence agency in the world. They have long since (and I mean decades) done away with car crashes, which were never effective. There are (I quote a character on Alias the TV show) "next gen next gen" methods. Like you suggested, something to insert discreetly in Diana's system, that will cause death and make it look like natural death, and these methods cannot be traced, ever MI6 and CIA murder people in such ways that we never know! I mean NEVER! If they had wanted Diana dead, they would have done it and we would never suspect. It would be so clean and look so "real", like Diana died of a freak medical cause.
  #579  
Old 12-18-2007, 12:05 PM
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Yes, that's what I meant. Thank you, Ashley.
I talked to my mother-in-law (sometimes I wonder when I do work, but I do...) about it. She is a doctor in public service, responsible to view bodies before cremation to make sure the doctor of the deceased did not overlook murder... She said that with these kinds of treatments it can happen all the time. Allergic reactions are very common and it's close to impossible to find out if the histamine which caused the deadly allergy was produced by the body in reaction to the treatment or if it was applied by a third person. If there is a medical record of bulimia, you could forget to prove that the death wasn't natural as bulimia patients pay a tough toll when it comes to their immune system, allergies and health.

I gathered from her information that this is quite a safe method to get rid of divorced princesses. And she was so keen on meeting new people with new methods to improve her life! While OTOH Diana could have survived if she only had worn a safety belt on that fatal night...
Again guys, this is all true.

But, I still wonder from looking at the car - if she would have lived or been a vegetable? It is said that Prince Charles when he found out about the accident said he would have then taken care of her. If Princess Diana got hurt it could have silence her and her landmine cause or to be an Ambassdor for England.

What I asking Jo, was Diana taking those colon procedures after she took on that landmine cause? I think that is an important question for Jo's theory. I also think, Diana was asked by Tony Blair just before her death to be more involved with his government. This accident could be the first time secret forces could get to her. (I better start think of other things the Holidays are upon us!!! We could go on and on.)
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  #580  
Old 12-18-2007, 12:40 PM
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Again guys, this is all true.

But, I still wonder from looking at the car - if she would have lived or been a vegetable? It is said that Prince Charles when he found out about the accident said he would have then taken care of her. If Princess Diana got hurt it could have silence her and her landmine cause or to be an Ambassdor for England.

What I asking Jo, was Diana taking those colon procedures after she took on that landmine cause? I think that is an important question for Jo's theory. I also think, Diana was asked by Tony Blair just before her death to be more involved with his government. This accident could be the first time secret forces could get to her. (I better start think of other things the Holidays are upon us!!! We could go on and on.)
I don't know but she still was into "healers" so it would have not been a problem to find somebody to introduce her to just the right "healer" with
sinister aims. IMHO. Just think of the healer who gave her report today at the inquest. She apparently was with Diana and Dodi thoughout the voyage on the Jonikal and went with them to Paris. So I have not doubt that it would have been easy to find a possibilty to kill Diana through her connection with such a "healer" and a very discreet way it would have been as well.

That's why I personally doubt there was a murder plot at all - everything happened in a strange but oh so unprofessional way.
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