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  #521  
Old 12-15-2007, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
Since the Inquest has turned into an entertaining "no detail too small" examination of the later years of her life, let's go off on a tangent from the current line of Inquest-inspired titillation and ask: what relevance do Diana's father's cufflinks have with a multiple-fatality car crash in a Paris tunnel?
Well, Warren why bring up that Diana had 5 or more lovers at the inquest? What does that do but make Diana look like a slut.

I can only think the cufflink's were to show that maybe the relationship was not only a summer fling. And that maybe some of Mr. al Fayed's other statements might not be far fetched. Who requested those letters be shown also might answer your question?
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  #522  
Old 12-15-2007, 08:52 AM
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My question would be - is it likely that he would have given a set of mens cufflinks to his daughter as a gift?
I was thinking that if Diana had given him the cufflinks as a Christmas or birthday gift, then the Earl may have well wanted to leave them to her once he died as a reminder of him. My mother did this right before she died with some gifts that her children had given her. But it wouldn't occur to me to give some of these gifts to a casual friend.

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I have heard lots of people giving a gift with 'these were a gift from ???, so they mean a lot to me', or even 'these were always ???? favourite and I would like you to have them'.
Perhaps in the Spencer family cufflinks were as plentiful as running water and so a gift of cufflinks wouldn't be seen as significant. So you're saying a gift of Diana's father's cufflinks is not indication of a serious relationship?

The letters with Prince Philip are baffling. I think the wisest thing I read was that Prince Philip entrusted his conversations with Diana to letters because he is known for being a bit callous and insensitive in person and in writing he could choose his words.

But it does blow out of the water the perception of the callousness of the Royal Family towards Diana. In her Panorama interview she said she got no support or help from the Royal Family. But since then I've read that Diana alone of all the family members had an open invitation to dine with the Queen whenever she wanted and now I read this very polite letter from Prince Philip saying he's no marriage counselor but he'll try to help anyway he can.

In retrospect they couldn't help but it seems the intention to offer Diana comfort was there. Yet she totally discounting any of their help or intentions to help throughout her life.
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  #523  
Old 12-15-2007, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
Since the Inquest has turned into an entertaining "no detail too small" examination of the later years of her life, let's go off on a tangent from the current line of Inquest-inspired titillation and ask: what relevance do Diana's father's cufflinks have with a multiple-fatality car crash in a Paris tunnel?
None whatsoever Warren!

I previously thought that this inquest was a waste of time and money and I still do. But outside of its intended purpose I do see a use for all of this and that is that it can serve to clarify some of the relationships for whom we really only had Diana's side of the story before.

So it can serve to clarify her relationship to Dodi and to some members of the Royal Family. That's not its legal purpose but as long as they're having it...might as well get something out of it.
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  #524  
Old 12-15-2007, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
The letters with Prince Philip are baffling. I think the wisest thing I read was that Prince Philip entrusted his conversations with Diana to letters because he is known for being a bit callous and insensitive in person and in writing he could choose his words.
This I believe about Philip, plus then by writing it is documented.

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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
But it does blow out of the water the perception of the callousness of the Royal Family towards Diana.
The Morton book made the family FINALLY realize that Diana wanted out of the marriage, would not to go quietly and her princess status intact with the people. Prince Philip with these letters in my opinion was trying to help her stay in the marriage for the monarchy. The damage was done with the marriage by these 1992 letters. I ask where was the family concern in 1986? I also read somewhere that Prince Philip told Charles that if his marriage didn't work in five years - he could go his merry way.

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In her Panorama interview she said she got no support or help from the Royal Family.

In retrospect they couldn't help but it seems the intention to offer Diana comfort was there. Yet she totally discounting any of their help or intentions to help throughout her life.
I will try to answer both your points. I am not saying Diana is an angel and I think she made a bad move not getting on psychotic medicine earlier then ten years into the marriage. By that time she grew up and got on the medicine the marriage was too far gone. But what I got out of the 1995 Panorama interview was the royal family because they never dealt with mental problems could not help her and it was not that they did not want to try. I feel if she did get medicine early on she and Charles would maybe still be married.
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  #525  
Old 12-15-2007, 10:11 AM
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After reading Rosa Monckton's testimony about the exchange of letters between the Duke of Edinburgh and Diana, I found myself having more sympathy toward her than at anytime in my life. Diana's first reaction to receiving a letter was extreme dismay and near panic until the letter was discussed and explained to her. She couldn't compose her own reply and depended on her friend to draft a letter which she would then copy in longhand and send to the Duke. I can imagine that the onus to correspond at Prince Philip's level must have been an excruciating burden. She was, so we've been told, a person who looked at things emotionally and intuitively and it must have been daunting to need to muster an organized and logical reply. She was so good with people who didn't challenge her intellectually but felt stressed in her dealings with those who did. It's so sad. I doubt that the Duke realized how intitally upsetting his well-intentioned and sympathetic letters were to her. I wonder, though, whether he could tell that she had help in formulating the replies.
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  #526  
Old 12-15-2007, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by selrahc4 View Post
After reading Rosa Monckton's testimony about the exchange of letters between the Duke of Edinburgh and Diana, I found myself having more sympathy toward her than at anytime in my life.

I think with this reply I am seeing more people having sympathy for our very human Diana on our forum. So may this inquest isn't so bad.
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  #527  
Old 12-15-2007, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
I think with this reply I am seeing more people having sympathy for our very human Diana on our forum. So may this inquest isn't so bad.
Yes, she was so out of her league. That is the sadness.
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  #528  
Old 12-15-2007, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
Families give jewellry as gifts to their heirs. Diana's father was male so cufflink are appropriate. Diana also, at the time of her father's death was being helped by him with photos for Mr. Morton's book. I believe his death during that time -1992 was very hard for Diana.
Diana wrote that they 'were a gift', not that they had been 'left to her'. Fathers do not normally give a pair of their cufflinks as a gift.
Quote:
I thought it came out after her death by Mr. Morton. Also, she did not have a fight going on with Prince Philip and the Queen. So why not call him Dearest Pa? My in-laws are very dear to me. I would still be nice to them if anything ever happen to my marriage.
It was suspected early on that it was her friend Carolyn Bartholomew, but by the end of the year, nobody believed that Diana was not involved. I would imagine it was very much felt as a 'kick in the teeth' by Phillip. Colthursts paid involvement was confirmed by Morton in 1997. I'm afraid it is incredibly hard not to take sides and resentments, real and imagined are an integral part of an acrimonious split within the family.
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
I was thinking that if Diana had given him the cufflinks as a Christmas or birthday gift, then the Earl may have well wanted to leave them to her once he died as a reminder of him. My mother did this right before she died with some gifts that her children had given her. But it wouldn't occur to me to give some of these gifts to a casual friend.
Like you, to me, they would have been too valuable to contemplate giving them away to someone on such a short acquaintance.
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Perhaps in the Spencer family cufflinks were as plentiful as running water and so a gift of cufflinks wouldn't be seen as significant. So you're saying a gift of Diana's father's cufflinks is not indication of a serious relationship?
Exactly
Quote:
The letters with Prince Philip are baffling. I think the wisest thing I read was that Prince Philip entrusted his conversations with Diana to letters because he is known for being a bit callous and insensitive in person and in writing he could choose his words.
By writing, not only could he choose his words, but it is unlikely they could in the future be misconstrued.
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But it does blow out of the water the perception of the callousness of the Royal Family towards Diana.
I shortened your quote! It should make people realise that Diana could be less than truthful, but it won't.
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
Since the Inquest has turned into an entertaining "no detail too small" examination of the later years of her life, let's go off on a tangent from the current line of Inquest-inspired titillation and ask: what relevance do Diana's father's cufflinks have with a multiple-fatality car crash in a Paris tunnel?
You are just a trouble maker, why discuss the real reason for the inquest!
  #529  
Old 12-15-2007, 11:24 AM
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i not convinced that these letters from Diana to Dodi are as significant as everyone seems to be making them out to be. previous letters that the Princess wrote to various people have been published and she writes in the same style to everyone ie by using the term "darling" to begin with and the letter merely contains a thankyou from Diana for her holiday nothing shocking or anything that really tells you that she was 'in love' with him

however the letters between Diana and Philip are far more interesting they paint a differerent picture that rather then the 'rocky' relationship between the two it was completely different and they respected each other and that Diana was fond of her father-in-law
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  #530  
Old 12-15-2007, 11:49 AM
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  #531  
Old 12-15-2007, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Diana wrote that they 'were a gift', not that they had been 'left to her'. Fathers do not normally give a pair of their cufflinks as a gift.
I was left some cufflinks from my Father after he died. I called them his last gift to me. I would only give his last gift to me to someone special my husband. I believe Diana did that.
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
It was suspected early on that it was her friend Carolyn Bartholomew, but by the end of the year, nobody believed that Diana was not involved. I would imagine it was very much felt as a 'kick in the teeth' by Phillip.
It was only suspected that Diana was involved in the Morton book. And just suspected is just that until proven by the author after her death. I think Philip was trying to keep Diana in the family as best as he could for the monarchy and his grandchildrens' sake. As you said in an earlier post after 1992 the relationship must have been strained between Diana and BRF.
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Like you, to me, they would have been too valuable to contemplate giving them away to someone on such a short acquaintance.
If she did have more then one pair of cufflinks from her father - why not give them to her sons? I don't think there were so many to go around and I don't think that her relationship with her father was strained. If I remember correctly she was worried about leaving her father in the hospital to go on a ski trip with her family right before he died in that hospital. Diana would not give one of last gifts from her father to just a friend. But again we are just voicing our opinions on the matter and do not know the truth.
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Exactly by writing, not only could he choose his words, but it is unlikely they could in the future be misconstrued.
Choose his words to Diana. Future misconstrued. I just think letter writing is the way BRF communicates with each other. An example: I have read that the Queen and Duke send each other correspondance to get together for lunch.
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  #532  
Old 12-15-2007, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PrincessofEurope View Post
i not convinced that these letters from Diana to Dodi are as significant as everyone seems to be making them out to be. previous letters that the Princess wrote to various people have been published and she writes in the same style to everyone ie by using the term "darling" to begin with and the letter merely contains a thankyou from Diana for her holiday nothing shocking or anything that really tells you that she was 'in love' with him.
What you said above is very true and I agree. But why did she give her father's cufflinks? Giving someone one of your last gifts from your father - the person has to be special. She had means to buy some. I know she could have a lot of them but still it is from her father to her.
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  #533  
Old 12-15-2007, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
What you said above is very true and I agree. But why did she give her father's cufflinks? Giving someone one of your last gifts from your father - the person has to be special. She had means to buy some. I know she could have a lot of them but still it is from her father to her.
well i suppose .... but then Diana was known for her generous gifts as thank-yous and as you said she could have had many pairs - it makes me wonder where these cufflinks are now and why Dodi's father never mentioned them before as he is always trying to show how the two were together
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  #534  
Old 12-15-2007, 12:40 PM
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well i suppose .... but then Diana was known for her generous gifts as thank-yous and as you said she could have had many pairs - it makes me wonder where these cufflinks are now and why Dodi's father never mentioned them before as he is always trying to show how the two were together
Good point.
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I was left some cufflinks from my Father after he died. I called them his last gift to me. I would only give his last gift to me to someone special my husband. I believe Diana did that.....
They were not married, she had only know him a short time. He could have decided that he couldn't follow through with his fathers plan, or she could have got the call from Hasnet she expected. Having had a few male friends that she felt had let her down, I doubt she would have been so ready to jump into another full on relationship or marriage.
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Choose his words to Diana. Future misconstrued. I just think letter writing is the way BRF communicates with each other. An example: I have read that the Queen and Duke send each other correspondance to get together for lunch.
Of course he chose carefully what he had written, he must have known Diana's limitations and tried to ensure that his letters were seen for what they were. I think it is quite normal for busy couples to send each other reminders that they are supposed to be meeting. I would think in HM's and DoE's case, they have to, so that it can be entered into the diaries to ensure they are 'not booked out'.
  #535  
Old 12-15-2007, 03:29 PM
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We're certainly seeing a different side to Diana. Quite worrying for us 'Camillaphiles' eh?
My opinion about Diana, Al Fayed and this whole inquest hasn´t changed and least of all my opinion about Camilla.
(By the way, i feel proud to be a Camilla-phile, -fan,-admirer.... )
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  #536  
Old 12-15-2007, 03:31 PM
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Good point.
Who had the letters and cufflinks? It would make sense that it was Mohammed al Fayed. I believe Mr al Fayed might have more suprises for this inquest. Does anyone know if the cufflinks were displayed at the inquest?

I am also wondering why he did not display the letters and cufflinks at his department store where he displays the engagement ring in tribute to Dodi and Diana.

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They were not married, she had only know him a short time. He could have decided that he couldn't follow through with his fathers plan, or she could have got the call from Hasnet she expected. Having had a few male friends that she felt had let her down, I doubt she would have been so ready to jump into another full on relationship or marriage.
I believe Hasnet broke up with her about two months before her death. Rosa and Paul have said the Dodi relationship was to try and make Hasnet jealous. I also read that Diana was calling Hasnet while with Dodi, but he did not return her calls. If Diana was not so unpredictable about her relationships, then I would agree that she would not have been so ready to jump into another marriage. But with Hasnet rejection, Charles and Camilla relationship getting more and more public, - Charles gave Camilla a 50th birthday party that summer at Highgrove and I believe the week after Diana's death Camilla was to have her first major patron event - her boys away at school most of the time and now she had to share the boys' vacations with Charles, Diana was at a cross road in her lonely, personal life. I think if Dodi and Diana would have lived and the relationship progressed she might be married to him now. She did tell reporters in her last few weeks to watch out something major was going to happen in her life.

So getting away from the novel that I am writing. Now knowing that Diana gave her father's cufflinks to Dodi tells me an the relationship was more then a fling for the summer. Her actions speak louder than her words to me.
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  #537  
Old 12-15-2007, 04:40 PM
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The Morton book made the family FINALLY realize that Diana wanted out of the marriage.
But how could they? When asked, Diana always maintained that she never wanted a divorce because she wanted to protect the children. She said this even as late as the 1995 Panorama interview.

I think the Panorama interview showed the family that she wanted out of the marriage because after the book there is no way that she could have done the Panorama interview without knowing that it would end her marriage.

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Originally Posted by PrincessofEurope
i not convinced that these letters from Diana to Dodi are as significant as everyone seems to be making them out to be.
I'm not necessarily making the letters to be more than what they were but one of Diana's letters to Dodi does tend to prove that she gave Dodi cufflinks that she at least claimed to be her fathers'. I do think the gift of her father's cufflinks are significant. Perhaps as skydragon has said, the gift of her father's cufflinks would mean nothing to someone of Diana's class but to me such a gift would be significant. I wonder too why Dodi's father hung on to the cufflinks for so long but Diana's letter proves that she gave Dodi some cufflinks that she at least said was her fathers' so the fact that Dodi's father hung on to the cufflink so long doesn't change the fact that Diana gave Dodi her father's cufflinks.
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  #538  
Old 12-15-2007, 05:11 PM
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But how could they? When asked, Diana always maintained that she never wanted a divorce because she wanted to protect the children. She said this even as late as the 1995 Panorama interview.

I think the Panorama interview showed the family that she wanted out of the marriage because after the book there is no way that she could have done the Panorama interview without knowing that it would end her marriage.
Okay ysbel, I agree with you. I forgot that she wanted to protect her children. Her Morton book was a cry for help to Charles and the BRF. And Pa Philip came to the rescue in 1992, but I don't think it was early enough to save their marriage.

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I'm not necessarily making the letters to be more than what they were but one of Diana's letters to Dodi does tend to prove that she gave Dodi cufflinks that she at least claimed to be her fathers'. I do think the gift of her father's cufflinks are significant. Perhaps as skydragon has said, the gift of her father's cufflinks would mean nothing to someone of Diana's class but to me such a gift would be significant. I wonder too why Dodi's father hung on to the cufflinks for so long but Diana's letter proves that she gave Dodi some cufflinks that she at least said was her fathers' so the fact that Dodi's father hung on to the cufflink so long doesn't change the fact that Diana gave Dodi her father's cufflinks.
Ysbel, I do hope that even someone from Diana's class would feel that her last gift from her father meant something to her. I read that Diana as a child took care of her father and brother after the divorce. A person with that kind of love to give would really treasure her father's last gift. A book that I have read about Diana also said that that she wished her father would not have died in 1992 when she really needed his support. So, to me those cufflinks finally support some of what al Fayed has been saying about them since their deaths in 1997.

Another thing that has me bothered about revelations this week at the inquest is that Rosa Mockton, her best friend, has a close family member in MI6 that Diana did not know about. Their friendship was started in 1992 when Diana started to rock the monarchy foundations. I just wonder if this friendship was started as a chance encounter.
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  #539  
Old 12-16-2007, 06:22 AM
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Ysbel, I do hope that even someone from Diana's class would feel that her last gift from her father meant something to her. I read that Diana as a child took care of her father and brother after the divorce. A person with that kind of love to give would really treasure her father's last gift.
quote shortened - I don't for a moment believe that they were his 'last gift' to her, but it does sound good to the recipient.

That sort of personal gift would perhaps be given to the groom as a wedding gift from his bride. The same way that I received jewellery given to my husband by his grandmama on our wedding day. I don't think Diana would have given a 'significant' gift to someone she had known such a short time and could have been a summer infatuation. If they were that important to her, why did she not give them to Hasnet?

Yes Diana fussed around her brother and father, which is why she was devastated that her father replaced her with Raine.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:13 AM
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You're very right Skydragon. It's so weird to think she has actually given him these cufflinks ... I would understand for Hewitt or Hasnat but Dodi ... . I can't think of any reasons expect maybe that she was afraid to loose his affection due to his break up with Kelly Fisher. Perhaps she felt responsible of the possibe pain he got from his separation. Or it could be just a thankful gift but IMO, it was too important for her to give it to an almost stranger.
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